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no_hops_23
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Post#181 » by no_hops_23 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:32 am

[quote="MoPetefor3"][/quote]

I apologize for our trolls. Unfortunately, with such a big fan base you'll have a few idiots. You guys have some great players with a pg you could amazing.
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Post#182 » by Spragga » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:41 am

I'm sorry but law is terrible. Every time I see him play he acts like a frightened turtle out there. He's trying so hard to prove he's a passing pg that he won't even look for his own shot. Law=kevin ollie
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Because it rhymes with 'Olajuwon'.

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Post#183 » by HumbleBumbleBee » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:17 am

no_hops_23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I apologize for our trolls. Unfortunately, with such a big fan base you'll have a few idiots. You guys have some great players with a pg you could amazing.



I second this notion...good game (minus the tech)
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Post#184 » by HMFFL » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:30 am

no_hops_23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I apologize for our trolls. Unfortunately, with such a big fan base you'll have a few idiots. You guys have some great players with a pg you could amazing.


No problem.

The majority of Toronto fans are classy, however, we have experienced some very childish ones that are known trouble makers since the last meeting.
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Post#185 » by evildallas » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:03 am

Didn't get a chance to post earlier. After the game I had dinner and movie plans. BTW, I really enjoyed Cloverfield.

As for the game:
I didn't see the AJ play because I had to work late. The descriptions I read on here didn't sound good. So much for steadying veteran influence.
I still want to make a run at signing Jose in the off season. As for trading for a PG now, they don't come cheap because there are not enough good ones for each team to have them. That's why when a GM passing up several PGs in a row to draft more and more Fs you get a flawed roster.
Yet another game that we can't play for 48 minutes. We didn't look as pathetic as we did against Milwaukee in the 4th, but we looked bad enough.
I wish the announcers would stop with all the hype for Lue as the "closer". For every good shot he takes, he gives up multiple on the defensive end or kills offensive flow by dribbling too much.
Moon is rapidly become my favorite non-Hawk. That block on Horford was impressive.
Good win by the Raptors, it's shows why they are a playoff team. Although we played them tight and had them on the ropes for a little while they didn't panic and the shots eventually starting falling. Whenever we need to make shots, well more often than not it results in failure and only occasionally Joe steps up to hit something. That's not enough to close out good teams on the road. I'm afraid that as currently constituted that we're just pretenders.

Hard to be positive after watching the Hawks play on the road.
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Post#186 » by JoshD » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:47 pm

What's with the Hawks players being cowards and only knocking our guys from behind??
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Post#187 » by rdtx2005 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:26 pm

JoshD wrote:What's with the Hawks players being cowards and only knocking our guys from behind??


stop trolling
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Post#188 » by dms269 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:12 pm

JoshD wrote:What's with the Hawks players being cowards and only knocking our guys from behind??


And people wonder why we think negatively of Raptor fans.
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Post#189 » by killbuckner » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:20 pm

tontoz wrote:I am curious to see what the score was when Lue came in during the second half.


Come on tontoz- go ahead and look at what Lue's +/- was for the game. You know that you want to know whether the Hawks actually did better with Lue or Law in the game. Come over to the darkside...
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Post#190 » by JoshB914 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:21 pm

Our offense didn't do a thing with IV in the game.
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Post#191 » by tontoz » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:44 pm

killbuckner wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Come on tontoz- go ahead and look at what Lue's +/- was for the game. You know that you want to know whether the Hawks actually did better with Lue or Law in the game. Come over to the darkside...


Did you even watch the game? Probably not.

If you did you would have seen Law in the first half playing with only one starter, Marvin. He was in the game with Blo Wright and Solomon as the front line.

Since he has so frequently played with backup this year that is why his +/- isn't a valid comparison.



Our offense didn't do a thing with IV in the game.


Neither did theirs.

When Lue came in that is when they started getting wide open looks from 3.
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Post#192 » by JoshB914 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:49 pm

Everytime IV plays like crap there is some kind of explanation. At some point he needs to start producing. I'm not buying these excuses anymore it has been nearly half a season and he has played well in 4 or 5 games.
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Post#193 » by tontoz » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:58 pm

Everytime IV plays like crap there is some kind of explanation.


We made our run in the 3rd quarter with Law in the game playing with the starters. Our third quarters have been crap lately.

Sure his shooting is off but his defense isn't.
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Post#194 » by JoshB914 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:01 pm

I was pleased with IV's defense. But he is still not producing like AJ has been and will be behind him until he proves he can (or we fall out of the playoff race).
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Post#195 » by tontoz » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:05 pm

But he is still not producing like AJ has been


AJ doesn't play with a D league front line either.
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Post#196 » by killbuckner » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:10 pm

Tontoz- once again basic stats fail you. Look at law's PT and you will see the players that he has been paired up with the most. Here is the list in order:

Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Marvin Williams
Josh Childress
Al Horford

Yeah- obviously he never gets to play with the best hawks players. Its simply ridiculous to think that he has been playing only with backups and to blame his lousy +/- on that.

And you were the one asking for what the score was when Lue came into the game. I am assuming that you were asking because you thought that the score was worse when he left. Maybe you don't realize it but thats all +/- measures. Actually the reason I said something was that Law's +/- for this game was better than Lue's for this game.
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Post#197 » by killbuckner » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:16 pm

Tontoz- are you under the impression that Law has played with Lo Wright more than AJ has? Once again your opinion is based on absolutely nothing.
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Post#198 » by JoshB914 » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:13 am

killbuckner wrote:Tontoz- once again basic stats fail you. Look at law's PT and you will see the players that he has been paired up with the most. Here is the list in order:

Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Marvin Williams
Josh Childress
Al Horford

Yeah- obviously he never gets to play with the best hawks players. Its simply ridiculous to think that he has been playing only with backups and to blame his lousy +/- on that.

And you were the one asking for what the score was when Lue came into the game. I am assuming that you were asking because you thought that the score was worse when he left. Maybe you don't realize it but thats all +/- measures. Actually the reason I said something was that Law's +/- for this game was better than Lue's for this game.


Well I guess that settles that issue.
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Post#199 » by tontoz » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:15 am

Again KB shows that he doesn't actually watch games. He has to fall back on irrelevant stats.

Ever since he came back from his injury Law has played with mostly bench players. Every game. He played around the end of the 1st quarter and early second, when Woody likes to rest his starters. Woody rests them at that time because he wants them playing during the second half in crunch time.

Of course you would know this if you watched the games.

Before his injury he was starting and got minutes with the starters but he was struggling then even more than he is now, at least up until right before he got hurt. He had 10 turnovers his first 3 games.

My observations come from actually watching games. KB's come from looking up stats without having the sense to consider context.
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Post#200 » by tontoz » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:32 am

Just a few recent examples from the play by play

Bucs game

Horford Substitution replaced by Wright 4:53 Johnson Substitution replaced by Law 4:53 Smith Layup Shot: Missed 4:43 4:42 Simmons Rebound (Off:0 Def:3) 4:35
[MIL 13-12] Yi Dunk Shot: Made (4 PTS)
Assist: Bogut (1 AST) Johnson 3pt Shot: Made (5 PTS)
Assist: Wright (1 AST) 4:14
[ATL 15-13] 3:46
[MIL 15-15] Yi Jump Shot: Made (6 PTS)
Assist: Ivey (3 AST) Smith Hook Shot: Missed 3:31 3:30 Yi Rebound (Off:1 Def:2) Wright Foul:Shooting (1 PF) 3:17 3:17
[MIL 16-15] Redd Free Throw 1 of 2 (3 PTS) 3:17
[MIL 17-15] Redd Free Throw 2 of 2 (4 PTS) Johnson Jump Shot: Missed 3:10 3:09 Ivey Rebound (Off:0 Def:3) 3:01 Ivey Turnover:Bad Pass (2 TO) 2:51 Simmons Foul:Personal (2 PF) Team Timeout:Regular 2:51 2:51 Simmons Substitution replaced by Bell 2:51 Yi Substitution replaced by Villanueva Smith Hook Shot: Made (8 PTS) 2:39
[ATL 17-17] 2:15 Bell Jump Shot: Missed 2:13
[MIL 19-17] Ivey Tip Shot: Made (2 PTS) 2:13 Ivey Rebound (Off:1 Def:3) Law Turnover:Traveling (1 TO) 1:51 Smith Substitution replaced by Williams 1:51 Johnson Substitution replaced by Lue 1:51 1:33
[MIL 21-17] Redd Jump Shot: Made (6 PTS) Williams Layup Shot: Missed Block: Bogut (1 BLK) 1:05 1:03 Ivey Rebound (Off:1 Def:4) 0:57 Villanueva Turnover:Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Williams (1 ST) Williams Layup Shot: Made (4 PTS) 0:54
[ATL 19-21] Wright Foul:Shooting (2 PF) 0:39 0:39
[MIL 22-19] Bogut Free Throw 1 of 2 (5 PTS) 0:39
[MIL 23-19] Bogut Free Throw 2 of 2 (6 PTS) Law Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS) 0:34
[ATL 21-23] 0:13 Bogut Layup Shot: Missed 0:11 Ivey Rebound (Off:2 Def:4) 0:10 Ivey Layup Shot: Missed 0:10 Ivey Rebound (Off:3 Def:4) Wright Foul:Shooting (3 PF) 0:10 0:10 Ivey Free Throw 1 of 2 missed 0:10 Team Rebound


Denver game

Johnson Substitution replaced by Law Anthony Free Throw 2 of 2 (9 PTS) 4:45
[DEN 16-20] 4:30
[ATL 23-16] Johnson 3pt Shot: Made (7 PTS)
Assist: Horford (1 AST) Diawara 3pt Shot: Missed 4:20 4:18 Johnson Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 4:14 Johnson Turnover:Bad Pass (2 TO) Kleiza 3pt Shot: Missed 3:54 Diawara Rebound (Off:1 Def:0) 3:52 Anthony Jump Shot: Missed 3:42 Kleiza Rebound (Off:1 Def:0) 3:41 Iverson 3pt Shot: Missed 3:35 3:33 Johnson Rebound (Off:0 Def:3) 3:27
[ATL 25-16] Johnson Jump Shot: Made (9 PTS) Camby Jump Shot: Missed 3:04 Diawara Rebound (Off:2 Def:0) 3:03 Diawara Putback Layup Shot: Missed 3:02 3:00 Williams Rebound (Off:0 Def:3) Diawara Foul:Shooting (1 PF) 2:53 2:53 Team Timeout:Regular 2:53 Horford Substitution replaced by Jones 2:53[ATL 26-16] Johnson Free Throw 1 of 2 (10 PTS) 2:53
[ATL 27-16] Johnson Free Throw 2 of 2 (11 PTS) Iverson Driving Layup Shot: Made (7 PTS)
Assist: Anthony (3 AST) 2:38
[DEN 18-27] 2:25
[ATL 29-18] Williams Jump Shot: Made (8 PTS)
Assist: Law (1 AST) Diawara Turnover:Lost Ball (1 TO) Steal:Jones (1 ST) 2:05 1:51 Johnson 3pt Shot: Missed Anthony Rebound (Off:1 Def:1) 1:50 Iverson Jump Shot: Made (9 PTS) 1:32
[DEN 20-29] 1:14 Law 3pt Shot: Missed 1:12 Team Rebound Kleiza Foul:Loose Ball (1 PF) 1:12 1:12 Williams Substitution replaced by Lue Anthony Substitution replaced by Smith 1:12 1:12 Jones Free Throw 1 of 2 missed 1:12 Team Rebound 1:12
[ATL 30-20] Jones Free Throw 2 of 2 (1 PTS) 1:04 Lue Foul:Personal (1 PF) Iverson Free Throw 1 of 2 (10 PTS) 1:04
[DEN 21-30] Iverson Free Throw 2 of 2 (11 PTS) 1:04
[DEN 22-30] 0:51 Jones Turnover:Lost Ball (1 TO) Steal:Camby (3 ST) Iverson Jump Shot: Missed 0:42 0:40 Jones Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 0:31
[ATL 32-22] Lue Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Law (2 AST) Diawara Jump Shot: Missed 0:10 0:09 Jones Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) Kleiza Foul:Shooting (2 PF) 0:02 0:02
[ATL 33-22] Childress Free Throw 1 of 2 (3 PTS) 0:02 Johnson Substitution replaced by West 0:02[ATL 34-22] Childress Free Throw 2 of 2 (4 PTS) Smith 3pt Shot: Missed 0:00 Team Rebound 0:00


Chicago game

Johnson Substitution replaced by Law Hinrich Jump Shot: Missed Block: Williams (2 BLK) 4:36 Smith Rebound (Off:2 Def:0) 4:34 Smith Jump Shot: Made (4 PTS) 4:32
[CHI 11-25] 4:18
[ATL 27-11] Smith Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Law (1 AST) Hinrich Fade Away Jumper Shot: Missed 3:56 Smith Rebound (Off:3 Def:0) 3:54 Smith Putback Layup Shot: Made (6 PTS) 3:52
[CHI 13-27] 3:34 Law Turnover:Traveling (1 TO) Hinrich Substitution replaced by Sefolosha 3:34 3:26 Smith Foul:Personal (1 PF) 3:26 Smith Substitution replaced by Lue Deng Fade Away Jumper Shot: Made (2 PTS) 3:16
[CHI 15-27] 3:00
[ATL 30-15] Johnson 3pt Shot: Made (15 PTS)
Assist: Childress (1 AST) Smith Jump Shot: Missed 2:47 2:44 Team Rebound 2:44 Team Timeout:Regular 2:44 Williams Substitution replaced by Jones 2:26[ATL 32-15] Johnson Fade Away Jumper Shot: Made (17 PTS)
Assist: Lue (1 AST) Thomas Hook Shot: Missed 2:04 2:03 Johnson Rebound (Off:1 Def:4) 1:56
[ATL 34-15] Johnson Fade Away Jumper Shot: Made (19 PTS) 1:33 Childress Foul:Shooting (1 PF) Deng Free Throw 1 of 2 (3 PTS) 1:33
[CHI 16-34] Smith Substitution replaced by Wallace 1:33 Deng Free Throw 2 of 2 missed 1:33 Wallace Rebound (Off:1 Def:1) 1:31 Wallace Dunk Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Deng (1 AST) 1:28
[CHI 18-34] 1:14 Law Jump Shot: Missed Block: Deng (1 BLK) 1:11 Jones Rebound (Off:1 Def:0) 1:10
[ATL 36-18] Jones Putback Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS) 1:13 Childress Rebound (Off:1 Def:0) 1:12 Childress Tip Shot: Missed Gordon Jump Bank Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Sefolosha (1 AST) 0:55
[CHI 20-36] 0:38
[ATL 38-20] Lue Jump Shot: Made (2 PTS) Deng Jump Shot: Made (5 PTS)
Assist: Thomas (1 AST) 0:23
[CHI 22-38] 0:02 Lue Jump Shot: Missed Sefolosha Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 0:01 Sefolosha 3pt Shot: Missed 0:00 Team Rebound 0:00
End of 1st Quarter
Start of 2nd Quarter
Back To Top
11:48 Jones Foul:Shooting (1 PF) Deng Free Throw 1 of 2 (6 PTS) 11:48
[CHI 23-38] Deng Free Throw 2 of 2 (7 PTS) 11:48
[CHI 24-38] 11:37
[ATL 40-24] Law Driving Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS) Sefolosha Foul:Shooting (1 PF) 11:37 Thomas Violation:Defensive Goaltending 11:37 11:37
[ATL 41-24] Law Free Throw 1 of 1 (3 PTS) 11:20 Law Foul:Personal (1 PF) Sefolosha Turnover:Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Smith (2 ST) 11:09

Wizards game

Williams Substitution replaced by Law Butler Foul:Shooting (1 PF) 3:59 3:59
[ATL 15-15] Childress Free Throw 1 of 1 (5 PTS) Butler Jump Shot: Missed 3:40 3:39 Smith Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 3:16 Law Running Jump Shot: Missed Jamison Rebound (Off:1 Def:2) 3:15 Daniels 3pt Shot: Missed 3:06 Jamison Rebound (Off:2 Def:2) 3:04 Jamison Turnover:Bad Pass (1 TO) Steal:Childress (2 ST) 2:58 2:53 Horford Layup Shot: Missed 2:51
[ATL 17-15] Smith Putback Dunk Shot: Made (8 PTS) 2:51 Smith Rebound (Off:1 Def:1) Team Timeout:Regular 2:51 2:51 Horford Substitution replaced by Wright Butler Substitution replaced by Young 2:51 Jamison Turnaround Jump Shot: Made (5 PTS)
Assist: Young (1 AST) 2:28
[WAS 17-17] 2:08 Johnson Jump Shot: Missed Daniels Rebound (Off:0 Def:3) 2:07 Young Jump Shot: Missed 1:48 1:47 Wright Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 1:35 Smith Layup Shot: Missed Young Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 1:32 1:29 Law Foul:Shooting (1 PF) 1:29 Smith Substitution replaced by Williams Stevenson Free Throw 1 of 2 (3 PTS) 1:29
[WAS 18-17] Stevenson Free Throw 2 of 2 (4 PTS) 1:29
[WAS 19-17] 1:13 Williams Jump Shot: Missed Stevenson Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 1:12 Songaila Jump Shot: Missed 1:04 1:02 Johnson Rebound (Off:0 Def:1) 0:55 Johnson Jump Shot: Missed 0:54 Childress Rebound (Off:1 Def:0) Young Foul:Personal (1 PF) 0:45 0:37 Williams Jump Shot: Missed Young Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 0:34 Young Driving Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS) 0:30
[WAS 21-17] 0:09 Law Turnover:Bad Pass (1 TO) Songaila Layup Shot: Made (2 PTS)
Assist: Daniels (3 AST) 0:00
[WAS 23-17]
End of 1st Quarter
Start of 2nd Quarter
11:40 Law Turnover:Bad Pass (2 TO) Steal:Songaila (1 ST) Young Jump Shot: Missed 11:21 11:20 Wright Rebound (Off:0 Def:2) 11:07
[ATL 19-23] Childress Dunk Shot: Made (7 PTS)
Assist: Law (1 AST) Jamison Jump Shot: Missed 10:42 10:40 Wright Rebound (Off:0 Def:3) 10:18 Smith Jump Shot: Missed Jamison Rebound (Off:2 Def:3) 10:16 Stevenson 3pt Shot: Made (7 PTS)
Assist: Young (2 AST) 9:53
[WAS 26-19] 9:34 Wright Hook Shot: Missed Jamison Rebound (Off:2 Def:4) 9:32 Young Foul:Offensive (2 PF) 9:16 Young Turnover:Foul (1 TO) 9:16 9:16 Law Substitution replaced by Johnson

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