Geaux_Hawks wrote: I saw a lot of bad defense in that game. Clarke is a solid player, but he will never see 30+ in the NBA. Hard time believing he will do that again in the tourney.
His defense is legit though. I'm not a fan of the idea of Collins at center, but if you are, Clarke would be a great fit defensively if you can't get Zion.
I'm noticing that there are a number of defensive big men who would pair great with Trae...but not so much with Collins.
That's what makes it so tough to solidify out front court.
Brandon Clarke is a beast, though.
Fun fact: 2 years ago, at San Jose State, he was playing SG!!!
Another fun fact...well kinda. I went to SJSU with Tariq Abdul Wahad 22 years ago. Fun times at State. Smith and Carlos statue there also. Good stuff.
Geaux_Hawks wrote:Yeah Culver isn't that impressive to me. I've seen a bigger Caris Lavert thrown out as comparison. Lavert isn't overly spectacular himself. I think Hunter has more upside than him, and I'm not a huge fan of drafting Hunter top 10 either.
We have to remember, outside of the three PGs, (Morant, Garland and White) there aren't a lot of 5-10 talent like last year.
This is your top 5: Zion, R.J, Morant, Bol and Reddish. The PGs like Garland and White. Outside of that. You have Clarke who has all star potential.
After that, who else has All Star potential, idk? Maybe Langford. Maybe Okpala, Bassey or Little. This is a tremendous draft class as of now. Maybe the best Senior and upperclassman class we have had since the 90s. But this draft is low on All Star level potential. I am happy that college coaches are prepping their upperclassmen for the NBA now. It makes evaluating much better.
The depth in this class is insane. The amount of potential rotation players even that won't get drafted is high end. The NCAA is in a good place and you see it while watching the games. But man, the lack of high after the top 5 and the PGs is damning.
I did notice not much high upside guys outside of the top 5 and white/Garland. If white could measure out around 6'5ish with decent length, I wouldn't mind just drafting him and letting him play off-ball. With that said, I would roll the dice on Jaxson Hayes.
Geaux_Hawks wrote:Yeah Culver isn't that impressive to me. I've seen a bigger Caris Lavert thrown out as comparison. Lavert isn't overly spectacular himself. I think Hunter has more upside than him, and I'm not a huge fan of drafting Hunter top 10 either.
We have to remember, outside of the three PGs, (Morant, Garland and White) there aren't a lot of 5-10 talent like last year.
This is your top 5: Zion, R.J, Morant, Bol and Reddish. The PGs like Garland and White. Outside of that. You have Clarke who has all star potential.
After that, who else has All Star potential, idk? Maybe Langford. Maybe Okpala, Bassey or Little. This is a tremendous draft class as of now. Maybe the best Senior and upperclassman class we have had since the 90s. But this draft is low on All Star level potential. I am happy that college coaches are prepping their upperclassmen for the NBA now. It makes evaluating much better.
The depth in this class is insane. The amount of potential rotation players even that won't get drafted is high end. The NCAA is in a good place and you see it while watching the games. But man, the lack of high after the top 5 and the PGs is damning.
I did notice not much high upside guys outside of the top 5 and white/Garland. If white could measure out around 6'5ish with decent length, I wouldn't mind just drafting him and letting him play off-ball. With that said, I would roll the dice on Jaxson Hayes.
White and Trae is a terrible fit. We are one of the teams who could bet high on readiness. Seeing how Travis is, it's all about how you can impact the game and he really loves the PDS guys. I think Reddish is our man. Other than him, I am not sure where Travis is leaning. Our PDS center is out for another year with the ACL. Bol might be an option but can he play in pace?
PDS is pass, dribble and shoot
Travis is not scared to bet against readiness for talent if it fits his type, none of the guys we drafted in 2018 were ready at all and it looks like a no brainer by the end of the season.
If I had to guess, his 1st round top end big board looks like this
Zion R.J. Reddish Bol Clarke Hunter Hayes Fernando Goga Culver Herro Little
King Ken wrote:We have to remember, outside of the three PGs, (Morant, Garland and White) there aren't a lot of 5-10 talent like last year.
This is your top 5: Zion, R.J, Morant, Bol and Reddish. The PGs like Garland and White. Outside of that. You have Clarke who has all star potential.
After that, who else has All Star potential, idk? Maybe Langford. Maybe Okpala, Bassey or Little. This is a tremendous draft class as of now. Maybe the best Senior and upperclassman class we have had since the 90s. But this draft is low on All Star level potential. I am happy that college coaches are prepping their upperclassmen for the NBA now. It makes evaluating much better.
The depth in this class is insane. The amount of potential rotation players even that won't get drafted is high end. The NCAA is in a good place and you see it while watching the games. But man, the lack of high after the top 5 and the PGs is damning.
I did notice not much high upside guys outside of the top 5 and white/Garland. If white could measure out around 6'5ish with decent length, I wouldn't mind just drafting him and letting him play off-ball. With that said, I would roll the dice on Jaxson Hayes.
White and Trae is a terrible fit. We are one of the teams who could bet high on readiness. Seeing how Travis is, it's all about how you can impact the game and he really loves the PDS guys. I think Reddish is our man. Other than him, I am not sure where Travis is leaning. Our PDS center is out for another year with the ACL. Bol might be an option but can he play in pace?
PDS is pass, dribble and shoot
Travis is not scared to bet against readiness for talent if it fits his type, none of the guys we drafted in 2018 were ready at all and it looks like a no brainer by the end of the season.
If I had to guess, his 1st round top end big board looks like this
Zion R.J. Reddish Bol Clarke Hunter Fernando Goga Culver Herro Little
He will look at all options including trades
Cam is a beautiful fit for us. Barrett might be the better player between the two, if we get the 2nd pick and somebody wants RJ or Morant we should slide to #3 and draft Cam and pick up an asset. How much would it cost a team to move from 3rd to 2nd?
Hawks best fit : any 2 of these guys would be a homerun in my mind.
Zion Cam RJ Culver Hunter Keldon Clarke Rui
Ja Morant...Coby White on the list but just don’t fit us.
I can't imagine a scenario where Travis Schlenk has Bruno Fernando rated above a do-everything wing like Jarrett Culver.
Jarrett Culver Stating Case as NCAA Tournament's Top Rising NBA Prospect
While a friendly rim saved Zion Williamson and the Duke Blue Devils five states away, Jarrett Culver ensured the Texas Tech Red Raiders wouldn't need a fortunate roll to make the Sweet 16.
Culver wrapped up the Red Raiders' 78-58 2nd round triumph with team-high marks of 16 points and five assists, adding 10 rebounds, three blocks and two steals.
Bleacher Report's Jonathan Wasserman and Sports Illustrated's Jeremy Woo consider Culver the third-best prospect in the 2019 class behind only Williamson and Ja Morant. Both CBS and Sam Vecenie of The Athletic list Culver at seventh overall.
One point of debate on Culver's scouting report will probably be the absence of an elite trait. Because of that, it's important to temper expectations about his upside. Culver won't necessarily be an All-Star, but he can be an above-average NBA player. Relative to the draft class behind Williamson and Morant, that makes Culver a top option.
What will define his career is whether he develops as a shooter. The sting of what he lacks offensively, however, is somewhat offset by his ability and intelligence defensively. Especially in today's high-tempo, perimeter-oriented league, teams covet his type of versatility.
"He can do everything," 14-year NBA player Jim Jackson told Bleacher Report. "And he's still growing as a player."
Jamaaliver wrote:I can't imagine a scenario where Travis Schlenk has Bruno Fernando rated above a do-everything wing like Jarrett Culver.
Jarrett Culver Stating Case as NCAA Tournament's Top Rising NBA Prospect
While a friendly rim saved Zion Williamson and the Duke Blue Devils five states away, Jarrett Culver ensured the Texas Tech Red Raiders wouldn't need a fortunate roll to make the Sweet 16.
Culver wrapped up the Red Raiders' 78-58 2nd round triumph with team-high marks of 16 points and five assists, adding 10 rebounds, three blocks and two steals.
Bleacher Report's Jonathan Wasserman and Sports Illustrated's Jeremy Woo consider Culver the third-best prospect in the 2019 class behind only Williamson and Ja Morant. Both CBS and Sam Vecenie of The Athletic list Culver at seventh overall.
One point of debate on Culver's scouting report will probably be the absence of an elite trait. Because of that, it's important to temper expectations about his upside. Culver won't necessarily be an All-Star, but he can be an above-average NBA player. Relative to the draft class behind Williamson and Morant, that makes Culver a top option.
What will define his career is whether he develops as a shooter. The sting of what he lacks offensively, however, is somewhat offset by his ability and intelligence defensively. Especially in today's high-tempo, perimeter-oriented league, teams covet his type of versatility.
"He can do everything," 14-year NBA player Jim Jackson told Bleacher Report. "And he's still growing as a player."
He can pass but not a shoot or dribble guy with his level of athleticism. I still think he is Evan Turner like. I don't even like the bigger Caris Levert comparisons. I loved LeVert as a prospect. Culver cant shoot. He is not athletic enough to overcome it. His athletic ability would be perfect if he was Luka or Iso Joe size but not at his size. I am convinced you are looking at a role player. I've watched 15 full games and I still don't see starter, potential star or superstar. I see an excellent college Basketball player.
Versatility is valued but not in the top 10 if you can't shoot unless you got a killer first step and can slash your ass off.
I am still trying to see why people are so high on him. He has low projectability
King Ken wrote:I still don't think he will translate.
He can pass but not a shoot or dribble guy with his level of athleticism. I still think he is Evan Turner like. I don't even like the bigger Caris Levert comparisons. I loved LeVert as a prospect. Culver cant shoot. He is not athletic enough to overcome it. His athletic ability would be perfect if he was Luka or Iso Joe size but not at his size. I am convinced you are looking at a role player. I've watched 15 full games and I still don't see starter, potential star or superstar. I see an excellent college Basketball player.
Versatility is valued but not in the top 10 if you can't shoot unless you got a killer first step and can slash your ass off.
I am still trying to see why people are so high on him. He has low projectability
I believe the shooting woes for Culver are overstated. He shot 33% on four 3PA per game this year as the primary scoring option.
He shot 38% on four 3PA per game last year as a tertiary scoring option.
The difference being, he wasn't asked to carry the team offensively and scored more efficiently as a result.
In a different role here -- as the 3rd option -- I believe he'd be enormously productive in our superior offensive better system.
King Ken wrote:I still don't think he will translate.
He can pass but not a shoot or dribble guy with his level of athleticism. I still think he is Evan Turner like. I don't even like the bigger Caris Levert comparisons. I loved LeVert as a prospect. Culver cant shoot. He is not athletic enough to overcome it. His athletic ability would be perfect if he was Luka or Iso Joe size but not at his size. I am convinced you are looking at a role player. I've watched 15 full games and I still don't see starter, potential star or superstar. I see an excellent college Basketball player.
Versatility is valued but not in the top 10 if you can't shoot unless you got a killer first step and can slash your ass off.
I am still trying to see why people are so high on him. He has low projectability
I believe the shooting woes for Culver are overstated. He shot 33% on four 3PA per game this year as the primary scoring option.
He shot 38% on four 3PA per game last year as a tertiary scoring option.
The difference being, he wasn't asked to carry the team offensively and scored more efficiently as a result.
In a different role here -- as the 3rd option -- I believe he'd be enormously productive in our superior offensive better system.
He can't shoot bro. I watch his shot, how teams defend it. That's like saying early in the season Smoove shoots as good as Trae based on percentages. He doesn't shoot it well. Doesn't have the range. The ball doesn't come out clean. Slower release. Nothing he shows shooting wise makes me believe he will develop into an average shooter for a NBA starting 2 or 3.
This secondary option stuff is nonsense. He was primarily a catch and shoot guy who wasn't bad when open but bad when covered. Anytime he was covered, he couldn't shoot. The issue isn't just that, his shot just doesn't smoothly translate which is more of an issue. I would prefer he was a worse bad shooter with a smooth form like Tatum or Prince than a bad shooter with a poor form because that's a lot hard to project. Reps simply won't have the same impact. Reps improved Prince and Tatum, hell look at John Collins. But watch Bembry, he is still struggling. Bazemore form is still hurky and he still as inconsistent as ever shooting the rock.
King Ken wrote:He can't shoot bro. I watch his shot, how teams defend it. That's like saying early in the season Smoove shoots as good as Trae based on percentages. He doesn't shoot it well. Doesn't have the range. The ball doesn't come out clean. Slower release. Nothing he shows shooting wise makes me believe he will develop into an average shooter for a NBA starting 2 or 3.
This secondary option stuff is nonsense. He was primarily a catch and shoot guy who wasn't bad when open but bad when covered. Anytime he was covered, he couldn't shoot. The issue isn't just that, his shot just doesn't smoothly translate which is more of an issue. I would prefer he was a worse bad shooter with a smooth form like Tatum or Prince than a bad shooter with a poor form because that's a lot hard to project. Reps simply won't have the same impact. Reps improved Prince and Tatum, hell look at John Collins. But watch Bembry, he is still struggling. Bazemore form is still hurky and he still as inconsistent as ever shooting the rock.
Indyhawks26 wrote:Convince me Reddish is worth taking with the 5 pick. Why?
It'd be all about the p-word.
The one that rhymes with potential.
I thought you were going in a very different direction.
Spoiler:
Wait. Was that too inappropriate?
So much to unpack here.
1. Should I be offended that that's the direction you expected me to go in? Yes 2. Should I be proud that I've led Deacon @jamall down this road? Yes 3. Should I be ashamed that I've led Deacon @jamallll down this road? Nah
King Ken wrote:He can't shoot bro. I watch his shot, how teams defend it. That's like saying early in the season Smoove shoots as good as Trae based on percentages. He doesn't shoot it well. Doesn't have the range. The ball doesn't come out clean. Slower release. Nothing he shows shooting wise makes me believe he will develop into an average shooter for a NBA starting 2 or 3.
This secondary option stuff is nonsense. He was primarily a catch and shoot guy who wasn't bad when open but bad when covered. Anytime he was covered, he couldn't shoot. The issue isn't just that, his shot just doesn't smoothly translate which is more of an issue. I would prefer he was a worse bad shooter with a smooth form like Tatum or Prince than a bad shooter with a poor form because that's a lot hard to project. Reps simply won't have the same impact. Reps improved Prince and Tatum, hell look at John Collins. But watch Bembry, he is still struggling. Bazemore form is still hurky and he still as inconsistent as ever shooting the rock.
Noted.
If you want to know exactly how I feel about Culver, just read this article.
The P word ok. Alot of players have potential only a certain few realize it. One of the big questions to realize the potential how hard does Reddish work. Does he shoot 500 balls a day to get his stroke down? Does he study the game? I guess I am looking for a star player here and right now after the first 3 picks (if they live up to the p word) its a crapshoot. What makes Reddish have more potential than the other players? Yes he has alot of athletic ability but so do other players. How is Reddish's basketball IQ? Does he make the big play? Most of the players in the draft will be role players until they learn the NBA game. I just don't like a player who disappears during the game. I hope Reddish proves me wrong we still have a few games to go. Prime time players show up during big games.
Indyhawks26 wrote:I hope Reddish proves me wrong we still have a few games to go. Prime time players show up during big games.
Reddish is possibly the most skilled offensive player in this draft. For real.
Zion is stronger, more durable.
RJ Barrett is more assertive, more polished. But Reddish has more pure skill than either of them.
You see glints of it from time to time -- on a pullup 3pt attempt in transition. In a step back, mid-range jumper on a broken play. Him ending up at Duke has been terrible for his development. He isn't a #1 option, and he struggles off ball.
He, ideally, would have ended up in a place where he could initiate the offense early, but would be playing next to more polished, disciplined upperclassmen doing the heavy lifting. (Imagine him on Tennessee or Villanova.)
I think you're correlating college production with skill level. You mentioned drafting Dawkins ahead of Reddish based on yesterday's game. But Dawkins is unlikely to even be drafted at all. It's no coincidence that Dawkins is much older, much more polished, a top offensive option for his team and the son of the head coach.
Aubrey Dawkins' role has been maximized to get the most out of him.
That has not been the case for Cam Reddish, who has largely been marginalized playing in the shadow of RJ and Zion.
Spoiler:
2019 NBA Mock Draft: Top three of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett, Ja Morant a virtual lock, and then things get interesting Reid Forgrave says the 2019 draft will get really intriguing after the obvious three names go off the board first
5. Hawks
Cam Reddish | Duke | Fr | SF | 6-8
There have been questions about Cam Reddish this season -- namely, does he have the killer instinct or the motor to be a star? "Is he going to be a 'sometime' player or a 'full-time' player?" one scout wondered. But the ceiling for Reddish is clear: He's got Paul George-like potential. He has ideal size for the type of wing who succeeds in today's NBA. "He's the picture of the small forward in today's NBA," one scout said. Reddish has been in an odd position for Duke this season, having to take a backseat to Zion and Barrett, but it could be good for him in the long run. Playing off the ball in college -- he was a point guard in high school -- could help jump-start him for the role he'll fit into in the NBA. He's the type of guy who may be a better NBA player than he was a college player. The fit with the Hawks has me really, really excited. There are people who were around Reddish a lot in high school who believe he's a better talent than his two Duke teammates. CBS Sports
I watched some good Reddish games to refresh my memory last night and this morning (since I can zone completely out with blowouts) and honestly, I hate to say it but the overall role I see there would not be too much different than the theoretical role with the Hawks. It’s not the role that some have told me to try to defend him (bail out threes mainly), it looks like his main role is to move off the basketball for jumpers (2’s and 3’s), attack closeouts, and threes and running to the basket for layups in transition.
Outside of adding occasional cuts to the basket and maybe the mystique of “more space in the NBA game”, I see no reason to expect there to be more to his role with the Hawks. There’s always a time for a first with the case I’ve posted about a couple times, and he could work out in the NBA, but I see the better defensive version of Batum with less passing, if he pans out to anything at all. Something like 15-18 PPG/5 REB/2.5 AST on 43-45% FG/35-38% 3PT/78-82% FT. Not 22+ PPG.
He did play well yesterday when he wasn’t out due to fouls, I’ll give credit for that, and I was watching, but I think I was focusing a lot more on UCF because of the mystique of Fall (although he’s unlikely to be an NBA player).
If any freshman is the “next PG13” from this year, I think it’s Louis King, but he might not come out until after 19/20. I just started learning about him in the past week or so, and he’s interesting but raw.
This deal with Reddish is incredibly interesting though. Chris Kirschner has said the Hawks like him, but Schlenk came from GSW and they usually drafted production, not potential. Does he choose to ignore him being underwhelming? Or does he go off of that production being a bit frightening and bypass him?
observer1995 wrote:This deal with Reddish is incredibly interesting though. Chris Kirschner has said the Hawks like him, but Schlenk came from GSW and they usually drafted production, not potential. Does he choose to ignore him being underwhelming? Or does he go off of that production being a bit frightening and bypass him?
That's a really good observation. If we end up with both top-10 picks this summer, I'd guess he gambles on potential with one selection and goes for production with the other.
Whether that's Cam or Jaxson or Sekou for potential -->
Indyhawks26 wrote:I hope Reddish proves me wrong we still have a few games to go. Prime time players show up during big games.
Reddish is possibly the most skilled offensive player in this draft. For real.
Zion is stronger, more durable.
RJ Barrett is more assertive, more polished. But Reddish has more pure skill than either of them.
You see glints of it from time to time -- on a pullup 3pt attempt in transition. In a step back, mid-range jumper on a broken play. Him ending up at Duke has been terrible for his development. He isn't a #1 option, and he struggles off ball.
He, ideally, would have ended up in a place where he could initiate the offense early, but would be playing next to more polished, disciplined upperclassmen doing the heavy lifting. (Imagine him on Tennessee or Villanova.)
I think you're correlating college production with skill level. You mentioned drafting Dawkins ahead of Reddish based on yesterday's game. But Dawkins is unlikely to even be drafted at all. It's no coincidence that Dawkins is much older, much more polished, a top offensive option for his team and the son of the head coach.
Aubrey Dawkins' role has been maximized to get the most out of him.
That has not been the case for Cam Reddish, who has largely been marginalized playing in the shadow of RJ and Zion.
Spoiler:
2019 NBA Mock Draft: Top three of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett, Ja Morant a virtual lock, and then things get interesting Reid Forgrave says the 2019 draft will get really intriguing after the obvious three names go off the board first
5. Hawks
Cam Reddish | Duke | Fr | SF | 6-8
There have been questions about Cam Reddish this season -- namely, does he have the killer instinct or the motor to be a star? "Is he going to be a 'sometime' player or a 'full-time' player?" one scout wondered. But the ceiling for Reddish is clear: He's got Paul George-like potential. He has ideal size for the type of wing who succeeds in today's NBA. "He's the picture of the small forward in today's NBA," one scout said. Reddish has been in an odd position for Duke this season, having to take a backseat to Zion and Barrett, but it could be good for him in the long run. Playing off the ball in college -- he was a point guard in high school -- could help jump-start him for the role he'll fit into in the NBA. He's the type of guy who may be a better NBA player than he was a college player. The fit with the Hawks has me really, really excited. There are people who were around Reddish a lot in high school who believe he's a better talent than his two Duke teammates. CBS Sports
I wouldn't go so far to say Duke been bad for his development. His issue is explosiveness, polished skills, and consistency which would have been his issue anywhere. He is raw skills wise and it was clear he got overrated in HS but he still is extremely projectable and that's extremely valuable in the draft. You are talking about a kid for most of the season had an elite 3pt projection and steals rate.
He clearly doesn't have 1st round skills. Even 2nd round skills but he has tremendous talent, an elite size and frame and excellent lateral quickness and first step. He plays like a jag but that's fine at this stage as he is not polished. There is a lot to question for Reddish. But his ceiling isn't one of them. He will need time but so did Kevin.
Oh, he is maybe our 4rd or 5th most skilled player at Duke but maybe our most talented.
Fun times at State. Smith and Carlos statue there also. Good stuff.
