hawks_fan25 wrote:Who says no to the ATL/PHX trade?
Collins + Justin Holiday for Crowder + Shamet + Saric
The salaries match. PHX gets the best player, but we get a little more perimeter scoring, more toughness from Crowder and more financial flexibility essentially trading JC's contract for Shamet's in future years.
I'm not too high on JC, but he would give PHX a great starting five as their 4.
I don't think we have a lot of takers for JC's long term contract, so I think PHX might actually say no to this one. Not sure what their offers are for Crowder though.
I'm saying No. Any trade that ends with Crowder as our starting PF is a non starter for me. We have a size and rebounding problem already. Crowder hasn't played in months, he's 31, he's bound to pull a hammy in his 2nd game back. He got benched for Johnson because of his offensive struggles.
hawks_fan25 wrote:Who says no to the ATL/PHX trade?
Collins + Justin Holiday for Crowder + Shamet + Saric
The salaries match. PHX gets the best player, but we get a little more perimeter scoring, more toughness from Crowder and more financial flexibility essentially trading JC's contract for Shamet's in future years.
I'm not too high on JC, but he would give PHX a great starting five as their 4.
I don't think we have a lot of takers for JC's long term contract, so I think PHX might actually say no to this one. Not sure what their offers are for Crowder though.
I'm saying No. Any trade that ends with Crowder as our starting PF is a non starter for me. We have a size and rebounding problem already. Crowder hasn't played in months, he's 31, he's bound to pull a hammy in his 2nd game back. He got benched for Johnson because of his offensive struggles.
I got JJ as our starting PF in this scenario with Saric and Crowder splitting backup duties. I don't think the current group goes that far this year anyway, so this is more about the future than anything else. Crowder would at least be playing for a contract next year so as long as he can stay healthy we'd get a good audition from him.
How is it about the future though? It is a pure salary dump for backup and 3rd stringers.
jayu70 wrote:I'm saying No. Any trade that ends with Crowder as our starting PF is a non starter for me. We have a size and rebounding problem already. Crowder hasn't played in months, he's 31, he's bound to pull a hammy in his 2nd game back. He got benched for Johnson because of his offensive struggles.
I got JJ as our starting PF in this scenario with Saric and Crowder splitting backup duties. I don't think the current group goes that far this year anyway, so this is more about the future than anything else. Crowder would at least be playing for a contract next year so as long as he can stay healthy we'd get a good audition from him.
How is it about the future though? It is a pure salary dump for backup and 3rd stringers.
Saving the $15m at least gives us a chance to resign Murray. If we don't offload JC's salary then DJM is definitely gone. If DJM leaves, we are in full rebuild mode whether we like it or not. We locked ourselves into a 2 year window when we traded for DJM and the only way that expands is by keeping him longer. I also think giving JJ more run as the starter is good for our future. We gotta make a run either this year or next. I'm not feeling good about this year and with all the current contracts we're almost stuck with running it back with the same group next year barring any kind of trade like this.
This also reflects how down I am on JC. I think it's just a bad contract for a quality player in a system where he's a bad fit.
unpopular opinion: I'm also pretty down on Trae as a leader of a championship team. I think he's great in the regular season, but will always struggle in the playoffs. I'd honestly rather build around DJM.
hawks_fan25 wrote: I got JJ as our starting PF in this scenario with Saric and Crowder splitting backup duties. I don't think the current group goes that far this year anyway, so this is more about the future than anything else. Crowder would at least be playing for a contract next year so as long as he can stay healthy we'd get a good audition from him.
How is it about the future though? It is a pure salary dump for backup and 3rd stringers.
Saving the $15m at least gives us a chance to resign Murray. If we don't offload JC's salary then DJM is definitely gone. If DJM leaves, we are in full rebuild mode whether we like it or not. We locked ourselves into a 2 year window when we traded for DJM and the only way that expands is by keeping him longer. I also think giving JJ more run as the starter is good for our future. We gotta make a run either this year or next. I'm not feeling good about this year and with all the current contracts we're almost stuck with running it back with the same group next year barring any kind of trade like this.
This also reflects how down I am on JC. I think it's just a bad contract for a quality player in a system where he's a bad fit.
unpopular opinion: I'm also pretty down on Trae as a leader of a championship team. I think he's great in the regular season, but will always struggle in the playoffs. I'd honestly rather build around DJM.
I loved the DJ acquisition, but he is not a guy you 'build AROUND', he is a guy you build WITH. Big difference.
hawks_fan25 wrote: I got JJ as our starting PF in this scenario with Saric and Crowder splitting backup duties. I don't think the current group goes that far this year anyway, so this is more about the future than anything else. Crowder would at least be playing for a contract next year so as long as he can stay healthy we'd get a good audition from him.
How is it about the future though? It is a pure salary dump for backup and 3rd stringers.
Saving the $15m at least gives us a chance to resign Murray. If we don't offload JC's salary then DJM is definitely gone. If DJM leaves, we are in full rebuild mode whether we like it or not. We locked ourselves into a 2 year window when we traded for DJM and the only way that expands is by keeping him longer. I also think giving JJ more run as the starter is good for our future. We gotta make a run either this year or next. I'm not feeling good about this year and with all the current contracts we're almost stuck with running it back with the same group next year barring any kind of trade like this.
This also reflects how down I am on JC. I think it's just a bad contract for a quality player in a system where he's a bad fit.
unpopular opinion: I'm also pretty down on Trae as a leader of a championship team. I think he's great in the regular season, but will always struggle in the playoffs. I'd honestly rather build around DJM.
On the Salary front. DJ's new salary would start in 2024-25. For the 2023-24 season Hawks have guaranteed salaries totaling $160 million. The Luxury Tax threshold is at $162 million. By trading JC with this trade and assuming we don't resign Crowder and Saric out guaranteed salary is $145 million. Here is the rub, We are still an over the salary cap team and have no CAPSPACE for FREE AGENTs. We'd have the MLE exception and the 2 TPEs from Huerter and Harkless. We'd still need to move Bogi's contract. This is all a function of Ressler's unwillingness to touch the Luxury Tax threshhold.
I still believe Eric Gordon would be good for our Hawks.
Bucks are Interested
The Bucks, who surrendered four second-round pick for Nikola Mirotic at the 2019 trade deadline, are exploring a similar approach as they pursue Rockets wing Eric Gordon.
I think the Hawks should swap Trae Young for Pascal Siakam. Murray and Siakam sharing playmaking duty would be fine, as Murray can not be the lone playmaker in a lineup. Then swap John Collins for Anfernee Simons. The Raptors and Trailblazers should be open to these trades as it gives them something they need, making the trades easier to accomplish.
Vox Populi wrote:I think the Hawks should swap Trae Young for Pascal Siakam. Murray and Siakam sharing playmaking duty would be fine, as Murray can not be the lone playmaker in a lineup. Then swap John Collins for Anfernee Simons. The Raptors and Trailblazers should be open to these trades as it gives them something they need, making the trades easier to accomplish.
Vox Populi wrote:I think the Hawks should swap Trae Young for Pascal Siakam. Murray and Siakam sharing playmaking duty would be fine, as Murray can not be the lone playmaker in a lineup. Then swap John Collins for Anfernee Simons. The Raptors and Trailblazers should be open to these trades as it gives them something they need, making the trades easier to accomplish.
Flaws and all I'm still taking Trae over Siakim. Siakim also has only 1 year left. Hawks aren’t going to want to have two Unrestricted Free Agents to negotiate with both in the 2024 offseason.
Vox Populi wrote:I think the Hawks should swap Trae Young for Pascal Siakam. Murray and Siakam sharing playmaking duty would be fine, as Murray can not be the lone playmaker in a lineup. Then swap John Collins for Anfernee Simons. The Raptors and Trailblazers should be open to these trades as it gives them something they need, making the trades easier to accomplish.
Even if the Hawks wanted to trade Trae, they could get a lot kore for him than Siakam. Raptor fans have over inflated what he is worth. He is a about to be 29 year old who will be a free agent after next season. Do you really want to be stuck paying a 30 year old the supermax starting at around 50 million per year when you are also having to resign Murray?
Vox Populi wrote:I think the Hawks should swap Trae Young for Pascal Siakam. Murray and Siakam sharing playmaking duty would be fine, as Murray can not be the lone playmaker in a lineup. Then swap John Collins for Anfernee Simons. The Raptors and Trailblazers should be open to these trades as it gives them something they need, making the trades easier to accomplish.
Even if the Hawks wanted to trade Trae, they could get a lot kore for him than Siakam. Raptor fans have over inflated what he is worth. He is a about to be 29 year old who will be a free agent after next season. Do you really want to be stuck paying a 30 year old the supermax starting at around 50 million per year when you are also having to resign Murray?
That's a fair point about getting more for Trae. The Hawks could or should be in win-now mode, and I'm not sure if a Trae-Murray backcourt gets it done. The alternative is to trade Murray and Collins for Siakam.
Does Siakam qualify for a Supermax?
"Only a player that has (or will have) completed eight years of NBA service by the end of his current contract is eligible to sign a supermax deal, which can only be offered by the team that drafted him or traded for his rookie contract."
The Raptors (or any other trading partner) could ask the same about Trae and the Supermax. Do you really want to be stuck paying a 6'1" PG who is a liability on defense the Supermax? Just trying to see things from all sides. Trae is already on a Supermax.
I think if the Hawks do this trade, they have to seek permission to speak with Siakam and agree terms with him about the extension before making the trade.
Vox Populi wrote:That's a fair point about getting more for Trae. The Hawks could or should be in win-now mode, and I'm not sure if a Trae-Murray backcourt gets it done. The alternative is to trade Murray and Collins for Siakam.
Does Siakam qualify for a Supermax?
"Only a player that has (or will have) completed eight years of NBA service by the end of his current contract is eligible to sign a supermax deal, which can only be offered by the team that drafted him or traded for his rookie contract."
The Raptors (or any other trading partner) could ask the same about Trae and the Supermax. Do you really want to be stuck paying a 6'1" PG who is a liability on defense the Supermax? Just trying to see things from all sides. Trae is already on a Supermax.
I think if the Hawks do this trade, they have to seek permission to speak with Siakam and agree terms with him about the extension before making the trade.
No one wants to trade Trae for Siakam.
If Pascal is such a talent...Raptors can keep him and draft yet another SF next to play beside him.
Pelicans reach out to Hawks regarding John Collins
The New Orleans Pelicans reached out to the Atlanta Hawks regarding forward John Collins, but talks were merely preliminary, according to league sources.
Vox Populi wrote:That's a fair point about getting more for Trae. The Hawks could or should be in win-now mode, and I'm not sure if a Trae-Murray backcourt gets it done. The alternative is to trade Murray and Collins for Siakam.
Does Siakam qualify for a Supermax?
"Only a player that has (or will have) completed eight years of NBA service by the end of his current contract is eligible to sign a supermax deal, which can only be offered by the team that drafted him or traded for his rookie contract."
The Raptors (or any other trading partner) could ask the same about Trae and the Supermax. Do you really want to be stuck paying a 6'1" PG who is a liability on defense the Supermax? Just trying to see things from all sides. Trae is already on a Supermax.
I think if the Hawks do this trade, they have to seek permission to speak with Siakam and agree terms with him about the extension before making the trade.
No one wants to trade Trae for Siakam.
If Pascal is such a talent...Raptors can keep him and draft yet another SF next to play beside him.
Pascal is a #2 or #3 on a true championship team. Will he be worth $40 million per season in his next extension? 28 years old so I believe most teams will think he's worth.
I'm not looking for a full reboot, but if Capela's trade value is high enough, it might behoove us to move him trade.
Even if it means accepting this year as a play-in team.
jayu70 wrote:What would you like to get in return?
Geaux_Hawks wrote:Very controversial indeed. My question would, what is it would you be looking to obtain, and ideally, what actual trade would make sense?
Wait. Is this that game where you ask me for trade ideas and then immediately dismiss every idea regardless of how much time and effort I put into the proposals?
Awesome...I love that game!!!
Spoiler:
Let me say first, no one should be off limits at this point. This team as a whole isn't going anywhere.
Most of our young talent still has room to improve (or at least regain) their trade value in the right system. Clint, however, is 28 years old. He's in his prime and is unlikely to develop his game beyond where it is. His value and production are at it's absolute peak right now. It's unlikely that the 30 year old version of Capela will be better than the 28 year old version.
Since we aren't truly contending, his efforts are kind of wasted here. Teams built around vets that want to win now seem like valid trade partners.
Portland
Phoenix
LA Clippers
Toronto
New York
all seem like teams willing to pay a decent amount for a 2nd tier starting Center in his prime to pair with their aging All Star.
Capela and Bogdanovic for DeAndre Ayton and Jae Crowder seems like a solid place to start the bidding. (I Don't want to build around Ayton, but he'll be a more valuable trade chip in 2024 than Capela.)
Capela and Collins to LA Clippers for Zubac, Robert Covington and Luke Kennard + a second rounder is a gamble.
Capela and Collins to Portland for Jerami Grant, Josh Hart and Gary Payton II could reinvigorate both teams.
My larger point is simply, as an asset, Capela's trade value will likely peak in the next 12 months. With him, we're a good team but not a contender. But if we can get a valuable asset in return, we can flip that asset at a later time.
Let me say first, no one should be off limits at this point. This team as a whole isn't going anywhere.
Most of our young talent still has room to improve (or at least regain) their trade value in the right system. Clint, however, is 28 years old. He's in his prime and is unlikely to develop his game beyond where it is. His value and production are at it's absolute peak right now. It's unlikely that the 30 year old version of Capela will be better than the 28 year old version.
Since we aren't truly contending, his efforts are kind of wasted here. Teams built around vets that want to win now seem like valid trade partners.
Portland
Phoenix
LA Clippers
Toronto
New York
all seem like teams willing to pay a decent amount for a 2nd tier starting Center in his prime to pair with their aging All Star.
Capela and Bogdanovic for DeAndre Ayton and Jae Crowder seems like a solid place to start the bidding. (I Don't want to build around Ayton, but he'll be a more valuable trade chip in 2024 than Capela.)
Capela and Collins to LA Clippers for Zubac, Robert Covington and Luke Kennard + a second rounder is a gamble.
Capela and Collins to Portland for Jerami Grant, Josh Hart and Gary Payton II could reinvigorate both teams.
My larger point is simply, as an asset, Capela's trade value will likely peak in the next 12 months. With him, we're a good team but not a contender. But if we can get a valuable asset in return, we can flip that asset at a later time.
I don't believe Capela is off limits at all. I just think if you're going to trade him, it should be more along the lines of acquiring someone like Ayton to replace him.
Zubac is doable, and having Covington and Kennard off the bench would help a lot. I just don't know if it is enough to trade Capela.
The Portland deal is just not something we should be looking at imo though. So even though I understand you're looking at what would be equivalent to Capela in terms of value, roster construction should be considered.
An interesting idea I came up with while evaluating the LAC deal, what would be the interest in trading Collins+ filler salary(Justin Holiday) for Covington or Morris, and Kennard? Get a journeyman stop gap to play the 4 and add a legit knockdown shooter in Kennard. Improves depth also.
