Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 2)

[PandaKidd]

And you've yet to establish a correlation between salary and starting, your central premise. There isn't, despite your tap dancery to nit pick the myriad of players that are coming off the bench while making "high" salaries. Fundamentally, a ~12 mil salary in 2016 is equivalent to a ~9 mil salary in 2015 and an ~8 mil salary in 2017. Is 9 mil an amount to guarantee a starting position? Look around, it's not. You yourself mentioned guys making more being moved to the bench, so alas, there isn't some invisible force field that prevents such an occurrence from happening. So to put it in dumb for you, there's no point in answering your question because you've created a false premise.

hey man if you think Iguadola signing a contract and being MOVED to the bench is the same thing as young 26 year old kent bazemore making 1-2 million his entire career, FINALLY getting a starting gig, then signing for 10 times the money to MOVE BACK TO THE BENCH is actually plausible, you are in more dire need of help than i thought.

So youre asking me to believe the Hawks would sign Bazemore to a 9-12 million dollar contract (4-6 times his contract now) to move to the bench, THEN we would sign his replacement starter in FA or draft someone to start there over him?

youre a clown

[MaceCase]

The Hawks traded for and signed guys making 2-3 times Bazemore's amount....that are currently sitting on the bench behind him. So who exactly is in charge of lineups? Bazemore or the coach? Seems you can't even keep your own hypothetical straight, is he concerned with starting or with getting paid? The only correlation would be that starting would help to get him paid but once getting paid is taken care of what exactly is the impetus behind wanting to continue to start? That's how and why guys get MOVED to the bench, lulz smiley face emoji.

[ATL Boy]

Let's please keep the discussion civilized, there's no reason for any name calling.

youre a clown

Come on man, there's no need for this.

[PandaKidd]

The Hawks traded for and signed guys making 2-3 times Bazemore's amount....that are currently sitting on the bench behind him. So who exactly is in charge of lineups? Bazemore or the coach? Seems you can't even keep your own hypothetical straight, is he concerned with starting or with getting paid? The only correlation would be that starting would help to get him paid but once getting paid is taken care of what exactly is the impetus behind wanting to continue to start? That's how and why guys get MOVED to the bench, lulz smiley face emoji.

So guys get paid , then dont care if they start anymore? do you play sports? have you ever?

[PandaKidd]

Let's please keep the discussion civilized, there's no reason for any name calling.

youre a clown

Come on man, there's no need for this.

I mean, when you provoke people with his snide comments , I will speak my mind. How about a warning both ways.

[ATL Boy]

Let's please keep the discussion civilized, there's no reason for any name calling.

youre a clown

Come on man, there's no need for this.

I mean, when you provoke people with his snide comments , I will speak my mind. How about a warning both ways.

It was for both parties, I just pointed that post out because it involved direct name calling

All I ask is that we keep things civilized and stick to basketball talk.

[PandaKidd]

Let's please keep the discussion civilized, there's no reason for any name calling.


Come on man, there's no need for this.

I mean, when you provoke people with his snide comments , I will speak my mind. How about a warning both ways.

It was for both parties, I just pointed that post out because it involved direct name calling

All I ask is that we keep things civilized and stick to basketball talk.

understood, I will move away from this topic now.

[MaceCase]

The Hawks traded for and signed guys making 2-3 times Bazemore's amount....that are currently sitting on the bench behind him. So who exactly is in charge of lineups? Bazemore or the coach? Seems you can't even keep your own hypothetical straight, is he concerned with starting or with getting paid? The only correlation would be that starting would help to get him paid but once getting paid is taken care of what exactly is the impetus behind wanting to continue to start? That's how and why guys get MOVED to the bench, lulz smiley face emoji.

So guys get paid , then dont care if they start anymore? do you play sports? have you ever?

Yea, guys were more concerned with winning. Try it sometime.

[PandaKidd]

The Hawks traded for and signed guys making 2-3 times Bazemore's amount....that are currently sitting on the bench behind him. So who exactly is in charge of lineups? Bazemore or the coach? Seems you can't even keep your own hypothetical straight, is he concerned with starting or with getting paid? The only correlation would be that starting would help to get him paid but once getting paid is taken care of what exactly is the impetus behind wanting to continue to start? That's how and why guys get MOVED to the bench, lulz smiley face emoji.

So guys get paid , then dont care if they start anymore? do you play sports? have you ever?

Yea, guys were more concerned with winning. Try it sometime.

if you want to keep comparing apples to oranges so you can think you are right, go for it.

[PandaKidd]

So did DMC go sign a contract with Toronto to ride the bench and play his role? Why didnt he stay here, i mean he just wanted to win right?

Bazemore would want to continue to start so in 4 years when hes 30 he can sign a 100 million dollar contract. Its absolutely hilarious you think he would sign for 5-6 times his current salary and just be like "nah bro its cool ill go back to the bench, i got my money" . Laughable.

The hawks would sign him to a 5-6 times his current contract to move him to the bench just to sign someone else to play in front of him. just laughable.

[jayu70]

If the player is better than Bazemore, of course, what'll he do after he's signed - not play. You are trying to get the best team possible and if having Bazemore off the bench its what's best then you do that.
Ginobli came off the bench as a young and paid player for 2 reasons - he wanted to win and Pop needed him to man the 2nd Unit.
DMC went to Toronto for the money. Since we are talking hypotheticals, Toronto has been playing well without him, what if after he is healthy they want him to come off the bench to help the bench unit, what's he gonna do? Not play?

[MaceCase]

If the player is better than Bazemore, of course, what'll he do after he's signed - not play. You are trying to get the best team possible and if having Bazemore off the bench its what's best then you do that.
Ginobli came off the bench as a young and paid player for 2 reasons - he wanted to win and Pop needed him to man the 2nd Unit.
DMC went to Toronto for the money. Since we are talking hypotheticals, Toronto has been playing well without him, what if after he is healthy they want him to come off the bench to help the bench unit, what's he gonna do? Not play?

Forget it, Bazemore will be making superstar diva money that coaches won't even be able to hold him to less than 30 minutes a game anymore. He'll definitely help his case to make even more money when he's 30 by being a team cancer too.

[PandaKidd]

Jeez.

You guys just dont get it.

DMC was SIGNED to be a STARTER. Them MOVING him to the bench is not relevant. It wasnt HIS CHOICE.

Ginobili averaged close to 30mpg during his prime until 2012) so he was paid like a STARTER , kind of like Harden. Harden was a bench player but he played 30+ minutes.
Heres an article discussing it:

"It's not as common as you may think, given the success [the Spurs have] had. But I understand when 20- to 23-year-old guys don't want to do it. They think they can take the NBA by storm. They want to (get) their numbers. They want to get paid. So I can imagine why they don't want to do it early in their career."

That last part ("they want to get paid") is something that was echoed by Andre Iguodala of the Golden State Warriors. He told Amick:

"If a guy is in front of you, then it's like, 'Well the guy is in front of me so I've got to go get his job.' Really, in the NBA, it's 'I need to get paid like a starter.' A team is not going to say, 'I'm going to spend $10 million for a guy to come off the bench.' A team is not going to do that. Or it's very, very rare."

The exception is NOT the rule.

The hawks wouldnt reup Bazemore just to slide him to the bench, and if you were him, you wouldnt either. Why? He could go START for Boston/Mavericks/Nets, whatever and in 4 years sign another HUGE deal. If he stay on the bench his earning decrease. There is no arguing that.

Ginobili also made over 100+ million dollars in his career, won championships, benfitted from staying in SAS, to argue that somehow Bazemore is the same player or same situation is even more hilarious. Lets compare AH to Tim Duncan while we are at it.

[jayu70]

Another hypothetical: We've traded Teague for our starting SF of the future, Al and Baze have been resigned, by some miracle not of this world THJr makes a DMC/Bazemore type jump (see the improvement of Middleton and Crowder after being traded) and Bud decides he's starting with Bazemore off the bench ala Ginobli. If that doesn't work then you have a player you can trade that's under contract.
The idea that things are' SET' if they are resigned is shortsighted at best.

[PandaKidd]

Another hypothetical: We've traded Teague for our starting SF of the future, Al and Baze have been resigned, by some miracle not of this world THJr makes a DMC/Bazemore type jump (see the improvement of Middleton and Crowder after being traded) and Bud decides he's starting with Bazemore off the bench ala Ginobli. If that doesn't work then you have a player you can trade that's under contract.
The idea that things are' SET' if they are resigned is shortsighted at best.

Let me ask you 1 question, who is our starting PG right now ? Who has been better for the most part this season?

thanks for playing.

Do things like youre saying happen ? Sure, but my initial intent was IF THEY RESIGN BAZEMORE IT IS TO BE THE STARTER. Nothing more, nothing less. That is FACTUALLY accurate.

if you are bazemore you arent signing to be a bench player, and the hawks arent paying him and MOVING him to the bench after being a starter on THEIR team for over a year

[jayu70]

Another hypothetical: We've traded Teague for our starting SF of the future, Al and Baze have been resigned, by some miracle not of this world THJr makes a DMC/Bazemore type jump (see the improvement of Middleton and Crowder after being traded) and Bud decides he's starting with Bazemore off the bench ala Ginobli. If that doesn't work then you have a player you can trade that's under contract.
The idea that things are' SET' if they are resigned is shortsighted at best.

Let me ask you 1 question, who is our starting PG right now ? Who has been better for the most part this season?

thanks for playing.

Do things like youre saying happen ? Sure, but my initial intent was IF THEY RESIGN BAZEMORE IT IS TO BE THE STARTER. Nothing more, nothing less. That is FACTUALLY accurate.

if you are bazemore you arent signing to be a bench player, and the hawks arent paying him and MOVING him to the bench after being a starter on THEIR team for over a year

This is a stating the obvious question right. Teague is the starter and Dennis has been playing better than Teague since Bud benched him.
I guess you can see the future.

[PandaKidd]

the notion that Bud would bench newly signed BazeGawd for THJ is just as laughable i guess, in my mind.

I mean whats the difference, Teague is paid more, performing less, and DS still isnt the starter after 2 years? So why would he act differently if THJ outplayed Bazemore next year?

Guys, GMs dont hand out contracts to current starters and move them to the bench. Ginobilli was NEVER a STARTER who then Accepted a bench role. he was always a 6th man (playing 30MPG ) and just accepted his role. Again, TOTAL outlier to the rest of the nba, even Manu and Iggy admitted it.

People in Bazemores situation want to be starters, they dont just say yeah ill take a cut in minutes just to be part of the team.

[jayu70]

Ginobli was a starter at one point.

Coaching in the NBA is a tough business. Every decision—right or wrong, success or failure—is attended by its own set of concerns and emotions.
Just ask Gregg Popovich. The longtime San Antonio Spurs overlord, who was named the league's Coach of the Year for a third time in 2013-14, still feels remorse about moving Manu Ginobili to the bench.
Seven years after the fact.
Guilt or no, the move's worked out pretty well for everyone involved. The Spurs won their fourth championship in 2007, mere months after Popovich moved the wily Argentine out of the starting lineup in a prosperous attempt to ignite his second unit.

Since mid December Dennis has played better than Teague, that's about it. A cool month.

[PandaKidd]

Go look at Manus minutes. He became a bench player in name only until about 2012. He averaged 27-30mpg.

Same as Jamal Crawford 2 years ago
Same as James Harden

And your article is exactly what I was referring to. They signed ginobili to BE A STARTER . what was his contract?

Was he in the same circumstances as Bazemore?

[jayu70]

So why can't Bazemore be a bench player in name only?
Ginobli's contract in 2007 when he moved to the bench was $8 million/yr. Then he resigned again as a bench player in 2009 for 4year starting at $10 million. (Keep in mind that those numbers were high back then - and I think Ginobli left money on the table to resign with Spurs)
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/manu-ginobili/cash-earnings/

Harden was traded to Houston.