Hawks Trade Scenarios For Jeff Teague

[Hawk Eye]

SVG is commonly referred to as the GM of the pistons yet doesn't hold the official title. Doc Rivers is commonly referred to as the GM of the clippers yet doesn't hold the official title. Still posters on realGM, broadcasters, basketball writers, all time greats-- basically everyone constantly refers to them as the GM/HC. So i guess by your account, there are a lot of lazy people out there.

[MaceCase]

SVG is commonly referred to as the GM of the pistons yet doesn't hold the official title. Doc Rivers is commonly referred to as the GM of the clippers yet doesn't hold the official title. Still posters on realGM, broadcasters, basketball writers, all time greats-- basically everyone constantly refers to them as the GM/HC. So i guess by your account, there are a lot of lazy people out there.

Sounds like an anecdote, you know, given that you've provided zero evidence and regardless it's still lazy and factually incorrect no matter how many times you believe it's been repeated.

I personally can say that outside of particular fans I've heard and read the opposite on any official media where they are typically referred to by their proper titles. I can't imagine what you've heard distinguished veteran GMs such as R.C. Buford, Jeff Bower, Dave Wohl and then Wes refereed to as though. CoGM? Other GM? GM 2.0? Wait, let me guess, you're just too lazy to care that they exist.

But congrats, you've managed to make an argument out of me focusing on minutiae ( I wasn't) by focusing on minutiae. Bravo?

[ATL Boy]

I don't get the point of overlooking the various flaws that Oladipo has displayed over a larger body of work to emphasize a week of good play. Secondly, with a Teague trade doesn't Dennis therefore become the starter at PG? Okay, so how does it make sense from a fit standpoint to now pair him with another undersized penetrating guard with a shaky jumper as your future foundation? Isn't that the exact issue Orlando is having between Payton and Oladipo? How is a 6'4" SG even considered a need when there are exactly 5 other players on the roster that play that exact position?

Bud (who is the President of Basketball Operations so could people stop calling him the GM because that is Wes Wilcox's job and title) made the reasonable decision. He didn't gut his playoff team for a mismatch of mid to lower tier assets just to say he got something, he held out instead for fit and/or a package he couldn't say no to. That simply wasn't offered.

Oladipo is a much more valuable player than Teague, and a much more valuable trade commodity. Not only is he 4 years younger, but he's also under long term team control.

If there's an issue with Dennis and Oladipo not being able to shoot (even though Dennis' mid range shot hasn't been bad, and his 3 has shown signs of improvement) then there's the simple solution of starting THJ, and bringing Oladipo off the bench in a 6th man role (what Orlando did earlier in the year).

Oladipo is a player who can help you in the playoff push, and be there for you long term. We can't just look at the fact that there are some other SG's with similar height on the roster, and decide against trading for a valuable piece for that reason. Especially when you consider the fact that we also have a player on the roster in Schroder, who's ready to take over the starting PG job.

And it doesn't matter what Bud's official title is, at the end of the day he makes he final decision, so he's the one being held accountable.


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[MaceCase]

Oladipo is a much more valuable player than Teague

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That is a statement based entirely on potential. Potential is not fact until it has been achieved and two weeks of play is not proof of potential being achieved or that it will ever be achieved.

By what metric can you even suggest that Oladipo is currently or has ever been more valuable than Teague as a NBA player? This team is not built to be potentially good 4 years from now and you can't make the argument that whatever the production of Oladipo, somewhere down the line you can still flip him for something else. He currently makes barely 3 million less than Teague and is also up for a new contract in another year and ICYMI, teams that follow the "we'll just acquire assets regardless of style, position or fit and just flip them later for other assets that can potentially become other assets and then other assets" are all still sitting deep in the lottery because that isn't an actual framework to build a successful franchise. Orlando themselves just had to dump an asset in Harris in an attempt to salvage the value of their other assets because of poor fit.

Jeff Teague's play over the past two months has been a big factor in the Hawks steaming their way to the 3rd seed. Regardless of whatever say Bud has (I'm sure the man who signs all of the checks has zero say in any of his employees tanking the evaluation of his billion dollar investment) his title is PBO, not GM. Get it right.

[Jamaaliver]

Oladipo is a much more valuable player than Teague, and a much more valuable trade commodity. Not only is he 4 years younger, but he's also under long term team control.

If there's an issue with Dennis and Oladipo not being able to shoot (even though Dennis' mid range shot hasn't been bad, and his 3 has shown signs of improvement) then there's the simple solution of starting THJ, and bringing Oladipo off the bench in a 6th man role (what Orlando did earlier in the year).

Oladipo is a player who can help you in the playoff push, and be there for you long term.

Bingo. Oladipo's a year from being near the caliber of Jimmy Butler. In five years he's possibly the single best SG in the league.

In our system...under our development you're looking at star potential.

You don't pass that up for one year of Jeff Teague.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I'm not a fan of Dipo myself unless we bring in a big guard who can shoot. As stated, Orlando is facing the issue of having Dipo and Payton as it is, and Payton is bigger than Dennis.

I mean if Teague for Oladipo is the foundation of a trade, I would take him and deal with the backcourt conundrum later. Ideally, I would rather find a 3rd team that will pony up some decent value for him, as I think Dennis will be a more relevant PG, compared to Dipo is as a SG.

[Jamaaliver]

I'm not a fan of Dipo myself unless we bring in a big guard who can shoot. As stated, Orlando is facing the issue of having Dipo and Payton as it is, and Payton is bigger than Dennis.

I mean if Teague for Oladipo is the foundation of a trade, I would take him and deal with the backcourt conundrum later. Ideally, I would rather find a 3rd team that will pony up some decent value for him, as I think Dennis will be a more relevant PG, compared to Dipo is as a SG.

All of these are good points. It basically just comes down to who you value more: Dennis or Victor.

I'd embrace Vic Oladipo, acquire a big, 3-point shooting PG like Avery Bradley and let that be my backcourt moving forward.

I really like Dennis Schroeder, but his ego is a huge concern for me moving forward. It wasn't an issue at age 19...but at age 23 I am beginning to have doubts.

[jayu70]

Avery Bradley is not a PG.
Dennis is 22.
I don't see the Jimmy Butler comparison at all. Victor is an undersized SG.
I don't see how Dipo helps us more than Teague for our playoff push.

[Jamaaliver]

Avery Bradley is not a PG.
Dennis is 22.
I don't see the Jimmy Butler comparison at all. Victor is an undersized SG.
I don't see how Dipo helps us more than Teague for our playoff push.

Ummm...I see where you're coming from.

But Avery Bradley came in as a role player PG/SG similar to Derek Fisher. Strong defender, solid three point shooter, limited playmaking skills. He was moved to off guard in favor of playmakers like Rondo, Smart and Isaiah Thomas Jr. He pairs well with a ball dominant SG.

The Oladipo-Jimmy Butler comparisons...hey, time will tell.

Hey, I love Dennis, but my loyalty is to the team.

Oladipo is a long term piece...with short term benefits as well.

But as a treadmill team for the last decade, we HAVE to stop only thinking of the short term. Are we really willing to forfeit talented young players so we can hopefully win 50 games and lose in the second round again?

Or Are we still convinced a team with Teague, Bazemore and Korver is a championship level contender again?

How many years of being mediocre must we endure before we finally acknowledge that we need elite players to be truly an elite team?

[jayu70]

This offense requires a playmaking PG, that's nit Bradley, Victor is still an undersized SG. That pairing makes no sense.
The way THjr is currently playing with the hope that he keeps improving we may just have our backcourt of the future with him and Dennis. Those are our talented young players.

[Jamaaliver]

The way THjr is currently playing with the hope that he keeps improving we may just have our backcourt of the future with him and Dennis. Those are our talented young players.

Oh my.

Do we seriously think THJ and Dennis is a championship caliber backcourt moving forward?



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[Jamaaliver]

This offense requires a playmaking PG, that's nit Bradley, Victor is still an undersized SG. That pairing makes no sense.

Also...Oladipo and Bazemore are like the exact same size.

And the offense just requires a playmaking guard...Bud wouldn't be much of a coach if he couldn't tweak it to accentuate a playmaking SG opposite a three point shooting PG as opposed to a playmaking PG opposite a three point shooting SG (like we have now).



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[jayu70]

The way THjr is currently playing with the hope that he keeps improving we may just have our backcourt of the future with him and Dennis. Those are our talented young players.

Oh my.

Do we seriously think THJ and Dennis is a championship caliber backcourt moving forward?



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No more serious than a Bradley/Oladipo backcourt.

[jayu70]

[quote=Jamaaliver"]

This offense requires a playmaking PG, that's nit Bradley, Victor is still an undersized SG. That pairing makes no sense.

Also...Oladipo and Bazemore are like the exact same size.

And the offense just requires a playmaking guard...Bud wouldn't be much of a coach if he couldn't tweak it to accentuate a playmaking SG opposite a three point shooting PG as opposed to a playmaking PG opposite a three point shooting SG (like we have now).



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Not so...Dipo is 6'-4" 6'-9.25" Wingspan, Baze is 6'-5", 6'-11.5" wingspan.

[jayu70]

[quote=Jamaaliver"]

This offense requires a playmaking PG, that's nit Bradley, Victor is still an undersized SG. That pairing makes no sense.

Also...Oladipo and Bazemore are like the exact same size.

And the offense just requires a playmaking guard...Bud wouldn't be much of a coach if he couldn't tweak it to accentuate a playmaking SG opposite a three point shooting PG as opposed to a playmaking PG opposite a three point shooting SG (like we have now).



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[/quote]
Not so...Dipo is 6'-4" 6'-9.25" Wingspan, Baze is 6'-5", 6'-11.5" wingspan.

[Jamaaliver]

Not so...Dipo is 6'-4" 6'-9.25" Wingspan, Baze is 6'-5", 6'-11.5" wingspan.

So...an inch more in height...and an inch more in arm length?

Ummm...okay.

[jayu70]

Not so...Dipo is 6'-4" 6'-9.25" Wingspan, Baze is 6'-5", 6'-11.5" wingspan.

So...an inch more in height...and an inch more in arm length?

Ummm...okay.

Uuuum...yeah...not the exact same, and the difference in wingspan is 2.25"...okay.

[Jamaaliver]

The way THjr is currently playing with the hope that he keeps improving we may just have our backcourt of the future with him and Dennis.

Oh my.

Do we seriously think THJ and Dennis is a championship caliber backcourt moving forward?

No more serious than a Bradley/Oladipo backcourt.

Regarding this...time will tell. We can stick a pin in it and comeback to that debate year or two from now.

I like what we've seen from THJ of late...but the past three weeks can't yet supersede what we've seen of him for the last 18 months. I simply need to see more.

Bigger picture, We've seen that Bud can make journeymen look like starters.

But I want to see him turn a top, elite young talent into a superstar...like Kawhi. The Korvers, the Demarres, the Bazemores, the THJs are nice stories and good players. But I'm waiting for greatness. That's what it takes to truly, consistently contend in this league.

I believe Oladipo can be that. I hope Dennis can be that.

I fear we too often eschew great talents and just settle on good players.

And good is the enemy of great...

[Jamaaliver]

Not so...Dipo is 6'-4" 6'-9.25" Wingspan, Baze is 6'-5", 6'-11.5" wingspan.

Uuuum...yeah...not the exact same, and the difference in wingspan is 2.25"...okay.

wingspan is based on arm length, torso width? Right?

Is one of Bazemore's arms 2 inches longer than the other?

If Bazemore has 2.25 inches more in wingspan...that simply means each of his arms are 1.125 inches longer.

Does that make him drastically bigger?


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[jayu70]

Oh my.

Do we seriously think THJ and Dennis is a championship caliber backcourt moving forward?

No more serious than a Bradley/Oladipo backcourt.

Regarding this...time will tell. We can stick a pin in it and comeback to that debate year or two from now.

I like what we've seen from THJ of late...but the past three weeks can't yet supersede what we've seen of him for the last 18 months. I simply need to see more.

Bigger picture, We've seen that Bud can make journeymen look like starters.

But I want to see him turn a top, elite young talent into a superstar...like Kawhi. The Korvers, the Demarres, the Bazemores, the THJs are nice stories and good players. But I'm waiting for greatness. That's what it takes to truly, consistently contend in this league.

I believe Oladipo can be that. I hope Dennis can be that.

I fear we too often eschew great talents and just settle on good players.

And good is the enemy of great...

Agreed, 1 year from now we shall see if Victor has turned into Jimmy.
Funny how 3 weeks of good play can't supercede what you've seen from THJr in 18 months but yet 2 great games from Oladipo has him slated for greatness. THjr is 24, Victor will be 24 in May, both from the same draft - it will be interesting to track their careers going forward.