Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 1)

[Rip2137]

I'm banking on:
+ the Hawks making a run in the playoffs with Garnett
+ Offering him a $9.5 mil 2 year deal for the small window we have with Joe anyways. Why not go all in.
+ signing a center. Asik, McGee, Hawes, kaman, Stiesma, Camby. Oh and Steve Nash and Kidd would make fine backups.
+ quality free agents coming here

I wouldn't be mad at:

Teague ; Kidd,Nash, Dre Miller, Ronie Price, Dooling, Pargo
Joe ; Redd/Allen/Pietrus/DeshawnStevenson
Smith ; Pietrus/Balkman/Al Thornton/Gee
Garnett ; K.Martin/Jamison/Murphy/Novak
Zaza + Kaman/Asik/McGee/Stiesma/Thabeet

Garnett - 9.5mil
center-
pg, sg, sf, pf

Bench
Tinsley/Ford/Price/Pargo ($1.5) or Kidd/Nash/Miller ($5million,2 years)
Allen ($5, 2 years) or Jason Terry ($4.5 million) or Deshawn/Redd ($2 mil) or Grant Hill ($3mil)
Thornton ($1.5) or Balkman ($1.5) or Earl Clark or Radmanovic or McGrady or Pietrus
PF: Murphy ($1.5) or Turiaf ($1.5) or Jordan Hill ($2 mill)
Kaman ($5 million) or Asik ($6million) or Thabeet ($2.5???) or Stiesma ($1.5)


example benches
Nash+Terry+Thornton+PF+Kaman = $17.5 million
Kidd+Terry+Thornton+PF+Kaman = $17.5 million

-------------------
example team
Teague(5*)+garnett(9.5)+Smith(13*)+Johnson(19)+Pachulia(5)= $51.5
Pargo+Allen+Thornton+PF+Kaman = $15
*Teague+Josh extended
------------------
Atlanta 66.5 million

But you could overpay for an Asik or sign Kaman + Stiesma. And we'd still be under tax salary and fielding an All Star laden team.
That's without Draft picks. I don't know if our draft range has any immediate contributors. But if you get creative, Marvin (negative) + Horford (3rd teamer, big whoop) are easily replaced.


Kevin Garnett
Josh Smith
Joe Johnson
Chris Kaman
Ray Allen

is 5 All Star caliber players and with some coming off the bench. Yeah anyone would want Duncan but he's not the only one out there.

(if Nash or Kidd or Dre Miller came that would be better)

Teague(5*)+garnett(9.5)+Smith(13*)+Johnson(19)+Pachulia(5)= $51.5
Nash+Allen+Thornton+PF+Kaman = $18

69.5 million

Please tell me this is a joke post. I would respond, but if it is a joke, I would feel silly pointing out the dozens of ways this is incridibly insane.

[Ruhiel]

Teague(5*) RFA, extend him
Johnson(19) signed
Smith(13.5*) slight raise, Iguodala money, All Star incentives
garnett(9.5) more than he'll get elsewhere
Chris Kaman ($5mil) - play on contender, defemd + rebound
$52
Pargo (1.5) - friends with Joe
Ray Allen ($6mil) - KG connection (wants to compete/play until 40, maybe a 3 year deal)
Al Thornton/Balkman (1.5) - easily sign as they aren't coveted (out the NBA)
Jordan Hill (2) - native to ATL
Pachulia(5) signed
$16 mil

$68mil

That better? Head coach is a very big ? mark but LD would not return is my guess. Van Gundy, Larry Brown etc would be very good coaches and I think very receptive to that team.

[Rip2137]

Okay, I still think its a bad trade but at least you weren't suggesting that a top 5 point guard in the league TODAY at the end of his career would come to ATLANTA to play off the BENCH.

Same goes for Andre Miller or Jason Kidd.

Also, giving multiyear deals to KG and Allen...come on dude.

Kaman ain't signing for 5 mil(and can't defend or rebound all that well either), Ray Allen ain't worth 6 (You could give Willie the Mid level exception and get the same production), KG has bad knees.

No, that team is not better than what we have now at full strength and that is with the glaring hole at the SF position.

[MaceCase]

That's a mighty optimistic view of how much NBA players are willing to sign for that completely ignores the CBA and what occurred in just the last summer where similar players got nearly twice that amount in nearly every instance. This of course ignores ring chasing and the like as well.

[Ruhiel]

A top 5 point guard in the league TODAY at the end of his career would come to ATLANTA to play off the BENCH.

Same goes for Andre Miller or Jason Kidd.

Also, giving multiyear deals to KG and Allen...come on dude.
??? If it makes you a contender why not.

Kaman ain't signing for 5 mil(and can't defend or rebound all that well either)
- Looking at Kaman's #s, age and injuries thats highly debatable. Will someone pays him $6 mil to be their backup center, ala Brendan Haywood? most teams have a center in place or arent contending.

- Ray Allen ain't worth 6 (You could give Willie the Mid level exception and get the same production)
Leadership, experience, respected/attracts players
* If you told someone that Ray Allen would be coming off the bench they sign. If you're Rick Sund you say Willie Green for the MLE.
look Jamal Crawford just got 5 mil. Ray Allen is a HoFer who has started 30 games, shooting a monstrous % and willing to come off the bench for a credible organization.

ATL would be flattered to have him off the bench. Willie Green?? Who says stuff like that???


KG has bad knees.
- Jordan Hill has good knees. I'd say most teams we could beat with KG barely topping 30mpg. Lets say he has a injury.
As long as he's healthy for playoffs we get a taller version of Horford who wont shrink still has better defense and same rebounding for that 2-3 year contract.

Looking back 2009 Garnett missed the playoffs but next 2 years no.
MPG--PPG--RPG---APG
33.3 15.0 7.4 2.5 (2009)
36.4 14.9 10.9 2.6 (2010)

[Rip2137]

Ray Allen would be great off the bench just like he was...um....wait a minute!

Assuming a NBA starter should be good coming off the bench is downright silly. If you aren't trading Joe for him, there is no point to him on the team as he has NEVER been a bench player EVER. Every guy that has gone from superstar starter to bench player has talked about how it takes at least a season to get used to it.

As for Garnett...you are STILL saying trade a YOUNG ALL STAR CENTER for a guy that is at the end of his career because he might be able to help you in the playoffs.

And Horford in the playoffs?

2010 - 14.6 - 9 rebs 1.8 ast
2011 - 11.3 - 9.6 rebs 2.5 ast

He is TEN years younger putting up simular stats while still developing. There is NOTHING smart about trading Al for Garnett. Now, Josh on the other hand, you get a better PF for now, and can move Al when Garnett retires to the 4 and pay another C. It makes no sense to give up Al Horford for Garnett.

[myrak433]

Ray Allen would be great off the bench just like he was...um....wait a minute!

Assuming a NBA starter should be good coming off the bench is downright silly. If you aren't trading Joe for him, there is no point to him on the team as he has NEVER been a bench player EVER. Every guy that has gone from superstar starter to bench player has talked about how it takes at least a season to get used to it.

As for Garnett...you are STILL saying trade a YOUNG ALL STAR CENTER for a guy that is at the end of his career because he might be able to help you in the playoffs.

And Horford in the playoffs?

2010 - 14.6 - 9 rebs 1.8 ast
2011 - 11.3 - 9.6 rebs 2.5 ast

He is TEN years younger putting up simular stats while still developing. There is NOTHING smart about trading Al for Garnett. Now, Josh on the other hand, you get a better PF for now, and can move Al when Garnett retires to the 4 and pay another C. It makes no sense to give up Al Horford for Garnett.

I agree with you it makes no sense to give up Horford for Garnett. but it is an equally bad move to give up Smith for Garnett.

Garnett is just to old and is on his last legs. both moves would be bad. I wouldn't even trade Marvin for Garnett....... wait........ yes I would.

[Ruhiel]

Ray Allen would be great off the bench just like he was...um....wait a minute!

Assuming a NBA starter should be good coming off the bench is downright silly. If you aren't trading Joe for him, there is no point to him on the team as he has NEVER been a bench player EVER. Every guy that has gone from superstar starter to bench player has talked about how it takes at least a season to get used to it.

Assuming Ray Allen would do good off the bench seeing as how this team is stacked like an All Star team.

I don't see how its a problem if the team is even remotely close to being ahead. I do see a problem with starting bums and asking Ray Allen to come off the bench.
Ray Allen could come off the plane and be a better backup than Willie Green. Are you kidding me?

As well with Joe's age he's good insurance as a starter as well. There is no way Willie Green.... there's no point man...

As for Garnett...you are STILL saying trade a YOUNG ALL STAR CENTER for a guy that is at the end of his career because he might be able to help you in the playoffs.

And Horford in the playoffs?

2010 - 14.6 - 9 rebs 1.8 ast
2011 - 11.3 - 9.6 rebs 2.5 ast

He is TEN years younger putting up simular stats while still developing. There is NOTHING smart about trading Al for Garnett.

Are you kidding me? Did you watch how Horford got those numbers? Were we close to winning in 2010? Dwight destroyed Horford.

2010 to 2011 - What development did you see?

And btw vs Garnett those aren't similar. They're inferior numbers don't get it twisted.

So at this point we have a guy who is 10 years younger, wants to be a PF, has fans clamoring to be a PF but has inferior impact to this KG guy.

Same development schtick was said with Josh last year. All he did was lose weight.

I want to know specifically how Horford is developing. Didn't become a better post scorer, didnt become a better finisher, nor a better defender, nor a better shooter off the dribble.

He's 6'9.75 with average length, plays below the rim, average rebounder and a PF-C who's best attribute is passing to scorers/slashers/volume shooters, not looking to score himself. He cant get involved in transition like guards and wing players. He can make rim runs but he can't actually post up and expect a double team a score or a foul call.

Games are won in the paint. Horford isn't very active at PF there (as a matter of fact iirc his offense goes down at PF) and that's the problem.

Horford stopped developing a while ago.

Now your idea is to trade Josh for KG. So we make do what with Joe Johnson? And what with Marvin?

Then ATL doesn't extend a HoFer and lets him walk creating bad blood throughout the league.


Now what's the best center you can get? Brook Lopez for Josh money? Brook for $13million?

Brook Lopez ($13)
Al Horford ($12)
sf: Grant Hill?
Joe Johnson ($19.7)
Jeff Teague ($3)

Yeah and I can see you didn't think out a bench either. Who would the bench be?
Who do you think anyone would play with that Horford-centric lineup as opposed to KG and Josh?

You have a gaping hole at SF. A non defender in Brook Lopez. And you essentially said Willie Green is a better bench backup than Ray Allen because Ray Allen has never come off the bench (as if other teams are stacked like the proposed roster).


Horford stopped developing a while ago but lets at least do this. How about you fill out the roster to prove that it is best for the Atlanta Hawks and you're not just a Horford loyalist.

Saying it was Marvin + Josh for KG. FILL OUT YOUR COMPETITIVE ROSTER and show us its better.

Jeff Teague ($2.4M)
Joe Johnson ($19.75M)
Al Horford ($12M)
Zaza Pachulia ($5M)

[AntwanBoldin]

I don't know if you guys are as soft as magic fans when it pertains to coversations about your player but:

Morrow, lopez, petro, and rockets pick for josh smith? Then we sign Dwight

[Superiorblogman]

I don't know if you guys are as soft as magic fans when it pertains to coversations about your player but:

Morrow, lopez, petro, and rockets pick for josh smith? Then we sign Dwight

Well, even though Lopez's lack of rebounding and shot blocking bothers me I would do it. We need a change. Josh Smith and Dwight are best friends and want to play together so yeah I would do it.

I really don't like those contracts of petro and morrow though because after re-signing Lopez we would once again be back up against the luxury. Would like a better deal with better contracts honestly

[MaceCase]

I don't know if you guys are as soft as magic fans when it pertains to coversations about your player but:

Morrow, lopez, petro, and rockets pick for josh smith? Then we sign Dwight

Done and done but I'd like to know the protection on the Rockets pick before I go all in.

edit: okay I see that it's pretty much lotto protected forever and the Rockets look like a sure fire lock for the playoffs so we're talking about a 18-25 pick in 2012. Meh I don't care, Lopez is the get, the team will still have enough space from the lux tax even after resigning Lopez because it's doubtful he get's much more than Deandre Jordan did so that would put team salary right at ~58 mil + the 7.5mil of Petro and Morrow who are expirings regardless so salary won't be an issue.

[AntwanBoldin]

As long as Houston makes the playoffs it's conveyed

Lopez is a good 7'1", he blocks shots and boxes out. Just flow footed on help D and won't knock anyone down.

Petro is garbage so you get morrow whos on a fine contract. Doesn't give you much besides shooting

[DeShaunRed]

Hey guys, I just read this on Twitter from Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski:

"Atlanta had talks with Minnesota during draft on Josh Smith for No. 2 pick, but Hawks haven't been aggressive in trying to trade Smith."

https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA

A Josh Smith for No. 2 pick straight up. I think if this went down, Derrick Williams would be behind Irving for the ROY award.

[AntwanBoldin]

Doesn't Derrick Williams give you more of the same lineup questions? Think kanter might've been the guy

[MaceCase]

Kanter was the guy that we were chasing when this rumor first popped up around draft time.

[geeman]

P.L.E.A.S.E!!!!!!!

Change in Team Outlook: +4.8 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and +1.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Jason Terry
34 year old , 6-2, 176 lb G from Arizona
14.8 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.8 apg in 30.7 minutes
Lamar Odom
32 year old , 6-10, 220 lb F from Rhode Island
7.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 21.4 minutes
Outgoing Players
Joe Johnson
30.5 year old , 6-8, 225 lb G from Arkansas
17.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.7 apg in 35.8 minutes in 2011-2012


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... z1o1EnXqiP

[parson]

I don't know if you guys are as soft as magic fans when it pertains to coversations about your player but:

Morrow, lopez, petro, and rockets pick for josh smith? Then we sign Dwight

You DID way "lopez" didn't you? I just want to be sure. BROOK Lopez?

If I could trust that Smith would play every game the way he did tonight, I'd decline. However, I think we would jump on this trade.

[Rip2137]

I don't know if you guys are as soft as magic fans when it pertains to coversations about your player but:

Morrow, lopez, petro, and rockets pick for josh smith? Then we sign Dwight

You DID way "lopez" didn't you? I just want to be sure. BROOK Lopez?

If I could trust that Smith would play every game the way he did tonight, I'd decline. However, I think we would jump on this trade.

I would LEAP on that trade, not just jump. A Shooter, a backup(although a crappy one) big and Lopez. Yes please.

[mlloyd10]

From an outsider looking in, I might have a trade for you guys that works for both teams

Hawks Get: Jamison and Sessions

Cavs get: Hinrich, Williams and 2012 1st rd pick

Any Thoughts?

[ATL Boy]

From an outsider looking in, I might have a trade for you guys that works for both teams

Hawks Get: Jamison and Sessions

Cavs get: Hinrich, Williams and 2012 1st rd pick

Any Thoughts?

The Hawks aren't gonna give away their 2012 first just to Dump Marvin, Cavs fans especially need to realize that