The Right time to make a BIG Move

[Jamaaliver]

What makes every one seem so sure that he would re-sign here if we did trade for him? Love and Kyrie both seem to want to play in one of the elite markets. I think at least 1 of them, if not both, ends up in Laker land.

I, as a practice, try not to speak in definitives and absolutes too often. But I can say with certainty that this particular issue should not be a concern. At all.

It speaks to his race, age, financial situation being a better fit in a city like Atlanta. We have celebrities, women, marketing opportunities. Hawks offer a better chance to win as we pretty much ALWAYS make playoff runs. We have a coach better than any pro coach he's played for.

I say with all due respect to the people of OHIO....

ATL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CLE.

For young, black millionaires, ATL is the mecca. We offer a more stable situation than any NY or LA basketball team can offer. Irving would be a star in this town, but unlike CLE, there are hundreds of other top stars that live/play/work here.

Cleveland, Toronto, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City are a tough sell when it comes to young black men.
Atlanta does not have that same problem.

Kyrie and 'his people' would love the city of Atlanta.

[Jamaaliver]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PeterVecsey1/status/471029498432208898[/tweet]

Things are heating up in CLE. The writing is on the wall.

A young superstar is being made available while still on his rookie deal. Before he hits his physical prime. MAN, I hope we're at least in the conversation to acquire this kid.

The opportunity for the HAWKS to actually become relevant in the Association is something I've desired for almost 20 years.

Do it, Danny. Everyone is on the table outside of Horford.

[PandaKidd]

Buzz continues to build around the league circles that Kyrie Irving could be made available this summer as things between he and the Cavs organization are approaching an impasse.

The Cavs are making noises that they aren’t going to offer Kyrie Irving “max money’’ this summer via a long-term extension. They don’t want to deal the 2014 All-Star Game MVP, but it could come to that, especially if the West Orange product and his family continue to tell people that he wants out.

I want to go on record again stating that acquiring this kid before he even reaches his prime could be game changing, monumental step forward for the franchise.

He has flaws, but his talent is undeniable. And we finally have a coach capable of molding a young player into a superstar. Plus a veteran locker room that can keep him in line.

My biggest concern remains his injury history. But considering our declining record the last three seasons here, I'm willing to take the chance.

As long as you also acknowledge it could blow up the franchise as well

[PandaKidd]

FYI they are believed NOT to offer him a MAX because they believe he wont sign it



"The Cleveland Cavaliers might not offer Kyrie Irving a maximum contract offer because they believe he will not accept, according to a report.

The Cavaliers reportedly do not want to look bad if Irving would decline the deal.

Irving is eligible to sign a new contract with the Cavaliers this offseason."

[Jamaaliver]

I want to go on record again stating that acquiring this kid before he even reaches his prime could be game changing, monumental step forward for the franchise.

He has flaws, but his talent is undeniable. And we finally have a coach capable of molding a young player into a superstar. Plus a veteran locker room that can keep him in line.

As long as you also acknowledge it could blow up the franchise as well

I willingly acknowledge a high level of risk based on a number of factors. (Maturity, health, cost)

But if 1st round playoff exits are the alternative, I'd take the chance to field a top team every day of the week.

[ATLHawksfan21]

What makes every one seem so sure that he would re-sign here if we did trade for him? Love and Kyrie both seem to want to play in one of the elite markets. I think at least 1 of them, if not both, ends up in Laker land.

I, as a practice, try not to speak in definitives and absolutes too often. But I can say with certainty that this particular issue should not be a concern. At all.

It speaks to his race, age, financial situation being a better fit in a city like Atlanta. We have celebrities, women, marketing opportunities. Hawks offer a better chance to win as we pretty much ALWAYS make playoff runs. We have a coach better than any pro coach he's played for.

I say with all due respect to the people of OHIO....

ATL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CLE.

For young, black millionaires, ATL is the mecca. We offer a more stable situation than any NY or LA basketball team can offer. Irving would be a star in this town, but unlike CLE, there are hundreds of other top stars that live/play/work here.

Cleveland, Toronto, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City are a tough sell when it comes to young black men.
Atlanta does not have that same problem.

Kyrie and 'his people' would love the city of Atlanta.

If all of this were true, we would have already landed a big star. and we won't be competing with Cleveland after we trade for him and he becomes a FA. We will be competing with the Lakers.

Either way, I hope it doesn't happen. This kid has not impressed me at all. He is flashy but he doesn't help his team win and that's all that matters in my book. He also has big time issues when it comes to staying healthy.

We trade for him, sign him to a max and we are still left with gaping holes at the wing position while having no cap room. We already have a potential all-star locked up at the position for only $24 million over the next 3 years with a promising youngster backing him up.

If we are going to go for a star it needs to be Melo. He would actually make this team complete and he actually has an effect on the win/loss column.

[ATLHawksfan21]

I want to go on record again stating that acquiring this kid before he even reaches his prime could be game changing, monumental step forward for the franchise.

He has flaws, but his talent is undeniable. And we finally have a coach capable of molding a young player into a superstar. Plus a veteran locker room that can keep him in line.

As long as you also acknowledge it could blow up the franchise as well

I willingly acknowledge a high level of risk based on a number of factors. (Maturity, health, cost)

But if 1st round playoff exits are the alternative, I'd take the chance to field a top team every day of the week.

I think we would have ended up in the ECF this year with a healthy Horford (unless we met Miami in the 2nd round since our seeding would have been different. Add in our pick, more experience for our young guys and using our cap space and I will be 100% shocked if we lose in the first round next year.

[azuresou1]

I would much rather pursue Melo than Kyrie. The maturity, defense, willingness to step up, our lack of perimeter scoring - all those things make Melo much more valuable than Kyrie.

[ATLHawksfan21]

I would much rather pursue Melo than Kyrie. The maturity, defense, willingness to step up, our lack of perimeter scoring - all those things make Melo much more valuable than Kyrie.

and we would be filling a position where we are weak instead of a position that could be one of our main strengths in a year or two.

[Jamaaliver]

Where to begin:

If all of this were true, we would have already landed a big star. and we won't be competing with Cleveland after we trade for him and he becomes a FA. We will be competing with the Lakers.

Fair point. But things are much more in our favor than ever before. Call it a perfect confluence of events: 1)Knicks are a capped out mess for a few more seasons. Their roster is bad and can't find a viable coach to match with PJ. 2)Lakers are an even worse mess. They have a bad owner, bad GM, bad coach and a gimpy Kobe. 3) Atlanta has a good GM and coach for the first time in their history. Korver turned down more money to play in ATL. So did Carroll. Millsap did as well. and now this:[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/465170605705539584[/tweet]

Players have always wanted to LIVE in ATL. Now they actually want to PLAY here as well.

If we are going to go for a star it needs to be Melo. He would actually make this team complete and he actually has an effect on the win/loss column.

I would much rather pursue Melo than Kyrie. The maturity, defense, willingness to step up, our lack of perimeter scoring - all those things make Melo much more valuable than Kyrie.

I'm just not convinced Melo gets us past Lebron. And I don't want to pay Melo at age 33,34,35 when he gives you nothing but scoring.

I'm also not convinced any single player makes us a true contender. When I propose acquiring KI, it's with us rebuilding the entire team with him in mind. Getting players that complement his skill set. I envision our team coming to age right as Lebron and MIA start fading in 2-3 years. KI would be 25 and in his prime and we'd have a window of 6-7 years to win. Signing Melo is a quick fix that still likely won't beat Lebron.

I think we would have ended up in the ECF this year with a healthy Horford (unless we met Miami in the 2nd round since our seeding would have been different. Add in our pick, more experience for our young guys and using our cap space and I will be 100% shocked if we lose in the first round next year.

I assume I have a few years on you. My problem with this statement is we've been saying it every year for decades now. We may have made the Conf Finals this year if Horford was healthy. We may have made the Conf Finals last year if Lou and Zaza were healthy. We may have made the Conf Finals the year prior if Horford was fully healed and Josh doesn't get hurt. We may have won before that if Hinrich is healthy and Crawford doesn't go cold against CHI...We may have won the EAST in 1999 if Alan Henderson and LaPhonso Ellis weren't injured against the Knicks.

The fact is...we didn't win. Any of those times. At some point we have to face facts, we just weren't good enough. It's a superstar driven league. We need to acquire one. Getting an over-the-hill, past-his-prime player does us no good either.

[Jamaaliver]

We trade for him, sign him to a max and we are still left with gaping holes at the wing position while having no cap room. We already have a potential all-star locked up at the position for only $24 million over the next 3 years with a promising youngster backing him up.

This is also inaccurate. We'll have plenty of cap space to build around KI. He made less than $6 million this season. He will make less than $8 million this fall. Yep, KI currently makes less than Jeff Teague...and will again next season.

His max will put him in the $16 million range in a couple of seasons. The salary cap is expected to jump over $60 million this year. Meaning moving forward, we'd have a young max salary player in his prime taking up less than 25% of our cap space. That doesn't happen often in the NBA these days. With $10 million+ in cap space this summer, another $10 million+ coming available next summer, and another $12 million+ coming available in 2016, our salary cap options remain completely flexible. Ferry gutted this team for the purpose of getting a Superstar, after all.

I'm not trying to piece together a top 10 team next year. I'm hoping to build a true contender for the next decade. Irving is an ACTUAL All -Star. Not a potential one. And he hasn't even scratched the surface at only age 22.

And worse case scenario: if KI doesn't work out we just trade him for an embarrassment of riches like Utah, New Orleans and Denver did.

[RollingWave]

The Hawks are in a really interesting position. I agree they are in a strong position to make move. 15m cap space, a lot of solid players and picks, its a cross road situation, any sort of direction could potentially happen.

As for Kyrie. interesting thought, his defense has been atrocious and had some conflict with teammates, but it seems more of that is on Dion Waiter than him. But if your Atlanta, what do you have to lose anyway, Teague is a fine solid PG, but he's obviously not a star player and Atlanta isn't a championship caliber team that might not want to risk breaking up something that's working. so if you could trade Teague + for Irving, you do it.

Here's a question for Atlanta fans, would you do Millsap for Asik + Terrence Jones? this has been thrown around for awhile now, but after this year obviously Millsap's relative trade value gone up and Asik went down, but if you throw in Jones, who started most of the year , and as a second year player had a pretty good statistical season this trade seems like it's worth considering? especially if you somehow really made a play for Irving? (since you probably need defensive help and other players will not be relied upon as much for offense.)

If the Hawks go all in and things line up , it is not inconceivable that they end up with Kevin Love / Kyrie Irving and Omer Asik all in one off season.

.

[ATLHawksfan21]

The Hawks are in a really interesting position. I agree they are in a strong position to make move. 15m cap space, a lot of solid players and picks, its a cross road situation, any sort of direction could potentially happen.

As for Kyrie. interesting thought, his defense has been atrocious and had some conflict with teammates, but it seems more of that is on Dion Waiter than him. But if your Atlanta, what do you have to lose anyway, Teague is a fine solid PG, but he's obviously not a star player and Atlanta isn't a championship caliber team that might not want to risk breaking up something that's working. so if you could trade Teague + for Irving, you do it.

Here's a question for Atlanta fans, would you do Millsap for Asik + Terrence Jones? this has been thrown around for awhile now, but after this year obviously Millsap's relative trade value gone up and Asik went down, but if you throw in Jones, who started most of the year , and as a second year player had a pretty good statistical season this trade seems like it's worth considering? especially if you somehow really made a play for Irving? (since you probably need defensive help and other players will not be relied upon as much for offense.)

If the Hawks go all in and things line up , it is not inconceivable that they end up with Kevin Love / Kyrie Irving and Omer Asik all in one off season.

.

Please lawd do not let this happen. Looks like the worst possible scenario to me. We add two "superstars" who play no defense. That's really going to get us far.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Jamaal, I would love for Amico's tweet to be right and for us to land a real star. I want one as bad as every one else. He has responded to that tweet and said that he was not referring to any big name players though.

Did you really just say that Melo's only contribution would be scoring? Melo is a damn good rebounder and he is a solid defender when he wants to be. He would shoulder less of a load on the offensive end for us which would allow him to give more effort on the defensive end. If there is any player that will only contribute scoring, it's Kyrie. Name one skill, outside of scoring, that he has proven to be above-average at.

All-star awards are subjective and heavily skewed by media hype. I could care less if Kyrie has made an all-star game. What I care about is can he lead his team to victories and can he stay healthy. Thus far, the answer is no to both of these.

[Jamaaliver]

All-star awards are subjective and heavily skewed by media hype. I could care less if Kyrie has made an all-star game.

Hey, you brought up the All Star mention when saying Teague was a potential one at age 25.

Did you really just say that Melo's only contribution would be scoring? Melo is a damn good rebounder and he is a solid defender when he wants to be.

He is today. But at age 33, 34 I have my doubts he'll be able to keep up with Paul George, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker defensively.

If there is any player that will only contribute scoring, it's Kyrie. Name one skill, outside of scoring, that he has proven to be above-average at.

Hey, time will tell. But the young man isn't even in his prime and is already a top producer. He has the ability to be a top player, it comes down to if you believe Coach Bud could turn him into one. If he can make Shelvin mack look like a starting caliber PG, imagine what he could do with a supremely talented player still learning the game.

[ATLHawksfan21]

All-star awards are subjective and heavily skewed by media hype. I could care less if Kyrie has made an all-star game.

Hey, you brought up the All Star mention when saying Teague was a potential one at age 25.

Did you really just say that Melo's only contribution would be scoring? Melo is a damn good rebounder and he is a solid defender when he wants to be.

He is today. But at age 33, 34 I have my doubts he'll be able to keep up with Paul George, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker defensively.

If there is any player that will only contribute scoring, it's Kyrie. Name one skill, outside of scoring, that he has proven to be above-average at.

Hey, time will tell. But the young man isn't even in his prime and is already a top producer. He has the ability to be a top player, it comes down to if you believe Coach Bud could turn him into one. If he can make Shelvin mack look like a starting caliber PG, imagine what he could do with a supremely talented player still learning the game.

Melo doesn't rely on his athleticism near as much as most of the other top stars in the league. He is also a better jump shooter than most of them so I think his game will translate well as he ages. May be we could convince him to take a 2 yr or 3 yr deal to see just how well it works and it would give him time to land one final big contract after ours if it doesn't work and he decides to try a different team. I don't think we would have to worry about it not working though. The Heat would be shaking in their boots if we landed Melo. Trust me, they would be much more worried about us landing Melo than Kyrie.

Way to swerve right around the Kyrie question. A top producer? A top producer in what exactly? Flashy plays are the only thing I have seen him be a top producer in. He's certainly not a top producer in shooting efficiency, passing, leadership, defense, health or the win column

[theatlfan]

The Hawks are in a really interesting position. I agree they are in a strong position to make move. 15m cap space, a lot of solid players and picks, its a cross road situation, any sort of direction could potentially happen.

As for Kyrie. interesting thought, his defense has been atrocious and had some conflict with teammates, but it seems more of that is on Dion Waiter than him. But if your Atlanta, what do you have to lose anyway, Teague is a fine solid PG, but he's obviously not a star player and Atlanta isn't a championship caliber team that might not want to risk breaking up something that's working. so if you could trade Teague + for Irving, you do it.

Here's a question for Atlanta fans, would you do Millsap for Asik + Terrence Jones? this has been thrown around for awhile now, but after this year obviously Millsap's relative trade value gone up and Asik went down, but if you throw in Jones, who started most of the year , and as a second year player had a pretty good statistical season this trade seems like it's worth considering? especially if you somehow really made a play for Irving? (since you probably need defensive help and other players will not be relied upon as much for offense.)

If the Hawks go all in and things line up , it is not inconceivable that they end up with Kevin Love / Kyrie Irving and Omer Asik all in one off season.

.

I could see taking certain scenarios where we'd take Jones for Millsap but none were we'd eat Asik's contract for free. If we decide to go young, then maybe a 3rd team could be found to eat Asik's contract, but we'd wouldn't be looking to give value to make that happen...

[RollingWave]

Well, Asik's 8m cap 15m payment situation is obviously going to bother a lot of owners, and the Rockets can only throw in as much as 3m to cover that difference.

As for Kyrie and defense, I think that may be blown out of proportions, MOST young player suck at defense and most PG suck at defense, the difference is that Tony Parker have Duncan Spliter and a great system to back him up, where as Kyrie have a bunch of just a crappy defensive player and revolving door coaches.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Well, Asik's 8m cap 15m payment situation is obviously going to bother a lot of owners, and the Rockets can only throw in as much as 3m to cover that difference.

As for Kyrie and defense, I think that may be blown out of proportions, MOST young player suck at defense and most PG suck at defense, the difference is that Tony Parker have Duncan Spliter and a great system to back him up, where as Kyrie have a bunch of just a crappy defensive player and revolving door coaches.

There's a difference between sucking at defense and giving no effort on the defense. Kyrie is soft and he gives no effort. He shies away from matching up with players that are tough to guard. He loafs around screens. I'm sorry but I want no part of those symptoms with my supposed franchise player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TkNPnoiolQ

Check that video out. He is insanely lazy when it comes to fighting over screens. He puts no pressure on Teague which allows Teague to throw pinpoint passes for easy looks. He's so bad that they eventually take Kyrie off of Teague.

They then put Kyrie back on Teague for the last play of the game. A very soft screen is set near halfcourt and Kyrie doesn't even attempt to stay on Teague. Instead, he leaves his big man on an island and Teague hits the game winner. Teague may not be a lockdown defender but he won't just slide over and run from the big moment. If the roles were reversed, Teague would have easily slid under the screen and stuck with Kyrie.

[Jamaaliver]

There's a difference between sucking at defense and giving no effort on the defense. Kyrie is soft and he gives no effort. He shies away from matching up with players that are tough to guard.

Kyrie's lack of effort is indeed worrisome. But that's an issue for the coaches to adjust.

It's worth noting, as bad as KI was defensively this year...he was still rated slightly better than our current PG, Jeffrey Teague.