The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1)

jayu70 · Post #41 » by **jayu70** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:46 pm

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CP War Hawks · Post #42 » by **CP War Hawks** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:07 am

Collins has tried more 2-3 dribble drives this season, but he's not skilled enough to finish or dish. He has the body of a sf similar to let's say Tobias Harris, but more of a center's skillset.

He will eventually need to move over to center unless he surrounded by good passers at 3 and 5 which obviously isn't here. The Hawks needs him to be a crisp passer himself.

CP War Hawks · Post #43 » by **CP War Hawks** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:18 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:
CP War Hawks wrote:JC has been great, hopefully he gets his 1st AS nod. However, he's been matched up with two rooks playing their 1st and 2nd ever games respectively.

With that, if he can keep up this level vs. the teams on our tier with good forwards IE Cavs, Raps, etc. he can get all his flowers no doubt.

I'm afraid I hit this on the head so far, he needs to pick it up asap. If you expunge his 1st two games vs talented but ultra green rooks, his numbers are horrific across the board the past 11 games.

10.5 ppg
7.5 rpg
45.5% fg
13% 3fg

IDK man. I think you might be placing blame on the wrong player. JC was avg 18+ ppg on 12 FG attempts in the first week. Since then, his scoring has dropped because his FG attempts have been chopped down to 8 shots per game. (Collins Game Log)

8 shots per game is ridiculously low for what is essentially the 3rd option on a playoff team.

The guards have stopped feeding him easy buckets in transition, bunnies in the pick and roll and wide open three point shots in the corners.

My take: Collins' struggles, just like Hunter's, are due to poor execution from the PGs. And from a mediocre offensive attack that has de-emphasized all of our forwards from the offense.

Well yeah his past 11 games he's shot 4-30 from three, his attempts should go down. The guards could do a better job, but it's on Collins to get himself in position to score. Centers nowadays are the ones that have to be spoon fed, everyone else has to find their way.

atlantabbq99 · Post #44 » by **atlantabbq99** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:43 am

JC is playing like he just got paid and doesn't care anymore, well it does seem like the fire is gone...

Post #45 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:49 am

CP War Hawks wrote:Well yeah his past 11 games he's shot 4-30 from three, his attempts should go down. The guards could do a better job, but it's on Collins to get himself in position to score. Centers nowadays are the ones that have to be spoon fed, everyone else has to find their way.

Fun fact: John Collins has had at least 10 shot attempts in only 8 games this season. In those 8 games he is shooting 49% from the field and the Hawks are 6-2.

We should be feeding the big man more. He seems to do well when given more shots and the team clearly benefits from his increased production.

D21 · Post #46 » by **D21** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:23 am

atlantabbq99 wrote:JC is playing like he just got paid and doesn't care anymore, well it does seem like the fire is gone...

Send him 5 alley-oops and give 5 more good shots and let's see if the fire is gone :wink:

He has the second best Net rating at this moment, he's clearly working for the team more than his individual stats

Post #47 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:24 pm

JC has developed into a surprisingly effective help defender and perimeter slower-downer.

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Post #48 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:20 pm

NBA Trade Watch

John Collins, Atlanta

Stock: Down

John Collins reportedly wasn't happy with his role on the Atlanta Hawks last year. We can only assume he's less than thrilled with it this season.

Adding another ball-dominant guard to the equation, in Dejounte Murray, has further obfuscated Collins' place inside the offense. Playing next to Clint Capela already inherently capped his screen-setting responsibilities. Now, his touches and usage have taken another hit:

Collins in 2021-22: 33.3 frontcourt touches per 36 minutes, 20.5 usage rate
Collins in 2022-23: 22.6 frontcourt touches per 36 minutes, 16.0 usage rate
Sheesh. Collins' counting stats are, not surprisingly, down across the board. Head coach Nate McMillan could be more creative in the non-starting lineup combinations he runs out, but Atlanta's pecking order is no longer conducive to prominently spotlighting Collins.

Maybe the Hawks win so much it doesn't matter. They have a top-ten defense with room to grow on offense. They have also looked unsettlingly formless for a team so comfortably above .500, and the defense is at least somewhat benefiting from arctic-cold opponent three-point shooting.

Plenty of other teams can guarantee Collins more responsibility at the offensive end. His declining numbers are not proof of regression. They're situational.

Whether Atlanta wants to move him is a separate matter. Collins entered the 2022 NBA draft as one of the most obviously available players in the league, but his output doesn't help his value in talks, and the Hawks aren't in a position to accept draft compensation as a primary return. Atlanta's chief need is also wing depth, and big-for-wing swaps aren't especially common.

Bleacher Report

Post #49 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:57 pm

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Post #50 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:20 pm

If we truly want to keep Collins as a frontcourt staple, this is the guy to pursue as his partner. (Though, I'd take a low cost gamble on Mo Bamba, too.)

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Post #51 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:12 am

That boy is good!!!

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Post #52 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 2:15 pm

He's been playing well. Now he's actually getting shot attempts...while Capela is out.

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jayu70 · Post #53 » by **jayu70** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 2:31 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:He's been playing well. Now he's actually getting shot attempts...while Capela is out.

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The biggest question is how do we incorporate this when Capela returns. I think we need to stagger their minutes more JC/OO and CC/JJ.
On you Nate.

jayu70 · Post #54 » by **jayu70** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:34 pm

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tbhawksfan1 · Post #55 » by **tbhawksfan1** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:35 pm

JC was a consistent 20+/10+ high efficiency player. Trae is a top 15ish player. DJM an all-star. Hunter a quality starting SF #4 pick. Camela is a top 5ish C. Bog is a near 6MY player. Got some quality young guys like OO, AJG, JJ... why do we suck so bad....?

Post #56 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:49 pm

jayu70 wrote:

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Man, DJM does not hold back. :rocking:

Crazy as he might be...he's exactly on point here. *Just look at that Usage%

********

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tbhawksfan1 · Post #57 » by **tbhawksfan1** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:55 pm

We have a lot of players that can get shots. Efficiency has to be taken into account though. Trae can get 30+ but his efficiency has been terrible THIS year. Coach needs to take contol of this and optimize this offense.

Post #58 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:57 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:We have a lot of players that can get shots. Efficiency has to be taken into account though. Trae can get 30+ but his efficiency has been terrible THIS year. Coach needs to take contol of this and optimize this offense.

If TY focuses on his catch and shoot game, dude can lead the league in points pretty easily.

Elite shooter off the catch.

Sub par shooter off the bounce.

tbhawksfan1 · Post #59 » by **tbhawksfan1** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 7:33 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:We have a lot of players that can get shots. Efficiency has to be taken into account though. Trae can get 30+ but his efficiency has been terrible THIS year. Coach needs to take contol of this and optimize this offense.

If TY focuses on his catch and shoot game, dude can lead the league in points pretty easily.

Elite shooter off the catch.

Sub par shooter off the bounce.

It is yet to be proven that he is an elite shooter off the catch with volume. That elite shooter number was based off something like less than a shot a game if I remember correctly. A lot goes into doing it at high volume. Then you have to consider the effect of taking the ball out of the hands of one of the best passers in the league. Maybe Trae needs to be more CP3 and less Harden

tbhawksfan1 · Post #60 » by **tbhawksfan1** » Thu Jan 5, 2023 7:40 pm

Someone needs to tell Trae that he is the problem. I hate to do this since Trae has been a Hawks for so long and it's water under the bridge, but I 100% wanted Luka in that draft. Imaging the same team switching Trae for Luka. We would easily be top 3 in the East.

Trae has the talent to do better, but he is falling far short