Is Josh Smith better than Chris Bosh?

99 Problems · Post #41 » by **99 Problems** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:21 am

None of you guys have crystal balls, I'm surprised how strong you're arguing based on your opinions.. Yes, CB4 is better than Josh Smith now, but to say Bosh will always be better is very subjective and homerish rather than objective... The reality is nobody knows...

If I told you 6 years ago that Steve Nash would win back to back MVPs and the best point guard in the league the last few years, better than other point guards who were considered elite 6 years ago, I'd get laughed out of the forum... If a guy like Nash can change so dramatically, why not Josh Smith?

The guy is extremely talented, we're not talking about some scrub.. He's borderline All-star caliber right now at 22.. I would say there's a 50-50 chance he surpasses Bosh eventually, but its really a hard thing to predict... one of them could blow out their knees and be forgotten in 2 years... or they could both be close to the same level for the next 10 years...

Skyhawk1 · Post #42 » by **Skyhawk1** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:22 am

Bosh is a much more polished player. He's got the fundamentals. More moves on Offense, he can rebound better, he can play C, he turns it over much less. Bosh is a franchise player. Josh isn't, and doubt he'll ever be.

risktaker91 · Post #43 » by **risktaker91** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:09 pm

If we had Smith instead of Bosh, I doubt we'd make the playoffs. Bosh is also our emotional leader.

SpaceJam · Post #44 » by **SpaceJam** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:06 pm

Josh Smith just needs consistency and when he is able to take over a game then i think he can be a consistent All-Star. Chris has had 4 of the past 5 games 30 + and also averaging 10 plus rebounds.

Adobozz · Post #45 » by **Adobozz** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:34 pm

Bosh is better than Smoove in everything except blocking shots. If Smoove defense is so good like u guys say it is than Bosh wouldn't drop 38 on us last night. Bosh is a better defender than Smoove also.

Post #46 » by **dms269** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:37 pm

Adobozz wrote:Bosh is better than Smoove in everything except blocking shots. If Smoove defense is so good like u guys say it is than Bosh wouldn't drop 38 on us last night. Bosh is a better defender than Smoove also.

Because Smith wasn't guarding Bosh on every single possession.

And 11 of those points were off of ft. Smith only had 3 fouls so I doubt he was the only guarding Bosh that much.

andyo · Post #47 » by **andyo** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:48 pm

At the end of the day, I see Bosh as a franchise player and I don't envision Josh Smith as one.

Skyhawk1 · Post #48 » by **Skyhawk1** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:19 pm

Adobozz wrote:Bosh is better than Smoove in everything except blocking shots. If Smoove defense is so good like u guys say it is than Bosh wouldn't drop 38 on us last night. Bosh is a better defender than Smoove also.

I agree with you on that, I doubt Smith is as good of a defender as most guys on the board see. There's a huge difference between having the ability to block shots ( he's got it ), and being a good defender.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #49 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:58 pm

Skyhawk1 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I agree with you on that, I doubt Smith is as good of a defender as most guys on the board see. There's a huge difference between having the ability to block shots ( he's got it ), and being a good defender.

The Hawks defense is 4 points better per 48 minutes when Josh is on the court. We are also 2-9 when he doesn't play the last 2 years...he must be doing something right defensively.

reazun · Post #50 » by **reazun** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:30 pm

Id have to agree with everyone that Bosh is a better player. Really who would even argue that? Bosh can play center too. Still, noone knows who will be better over the years. Josh dramatically improves each season. So I wouldnt be surprised if he surpasses Bosh someday. But I think its still much more likely that Bosh will always be better. Bosh is a rare find and he is still really young too. he did leave GT as a freshman right. Im guessing that they are both around the same age.

JoshB914 · Post #51 » by **JoshB914** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:41 pm

^^ Yes Bosh is one year older

dominique21 · Post #52 » by **dominique21** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:59 pm

Depends on if you are talking about one on one player or if you are discussing as far as effectiveness for their respective teams.....

Individual offensively: Bosh ...Defensively: Smoove

In a team concept I would really have to vote Smoove because defensive overpowers offensive in the NBA game...having said that I love offensive west coast run and gun like the Suns and Warriors style and if we ever turned into a team like that I would easily take Smoove due to his super freakish athletic abilities.....call me biased but...

Smoove>Bosh

dominique21 · Post #53 » by **dominique21** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:03 pm

PS I just can't vote for a guy who has his GF talk smack for him on the court and is begging for votes in that lame ad that he has as a car dealer off the court.....comon thats a little too much.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #54 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:26 pm

In a team concept I would really have to vote Smoove because defensive overpowers offensive in the NBA game...having said that I love offensive west coast run and gun like the Suns and Warriors style and if we ever turned into a team like that I would easily take Smoove due to his super freakish athletic abilities.....call me biased but...

This is the case in football...not basketball. Just about the rules favor the offensive player in the NBA. I'd rather have a great offensive player and bad defender like Charles Barkley over a great defender and limited offensive player like Mutombo or Ben Wallace. I do think Smith can be a good offensive player. I have confidence that he won't be a 44% shooter his entire career.

dominique21 · Post #55 » by **dominique21** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:37 pm

How can you say that defensive doesn't win over offensive in the NBA and that its just the case in football. Look at the previous decade or more in the NBA and who the eventual champs were....most if not all defensive teams. The Spurs and the Pistons...the Lakers of the early 2000's were the only exception.

prototype · Post #56 » by **prototype** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:56 pm

What is this? I don't even.....

Anyways, I like that guy who used the Marion (Smith) and Dirk (Bosh) comparison. Josh Smith would probably be never to take over a game the way Bosh does. At the end of the day he would probably have better stats and good for fantasy teams but would never carry a team to anything. He would need help from actual all stars/superstars. Whereas Bosh could just turn it on and dominate when he wants.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #57 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:01 am

dominique21 wrote:How can you say that defensive doesn't win over offensive in the NBA and that its just the case in football. Look at the previous decade or more in the NBA and who the eventual champs were....most if not all defensive teams. The Spurs and the Pistons...the Lakers of the early 2000's were the only exception.

The common denmonator for all championship teams besides one(2004 Pistons) in the last 25 years has been an all time great player not great defense or offense. That really has nothing do with this thread though. I'm saying that I would choose a great offensive player(who is a bad defender) over a great defensive player(who is a bad offensive player)every day of the week. There's no way I would take Smith over Bosh to start a team and there's no way I would take Bruce Bowen,Sean Marion(not really a bad offensive player), or Ron Artest over Carmelo Anthony either.

Hendrix · Post #58 » by **Hendrix** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:18 am

dominique21 wrote:How can you say that defensive doesn't win over offensive in the NBA and that its just the case in football. Look at the previous decade or more in the NBA and who the eventual champs were....most if not all defensive teams. The Spurs and the Pistons...the Lakers of the early 2000's were the only exception.

Pretty much every team that wins has a great defensive, AND offensive team. Last year the Spurs were 4th in the league in offensive efficiency, as well as the 2nd best defensive team. The year before that the Mav's, and heat were 2nd, and 5th in the league in offensive efficiency. Pistons were 3rd. So pretty much just great teams in general win in the NBA.

Defence is more of a team concept imo then a individule player as well. The Hawks have the best defender out of the 2 teams (Atlanta , and Toronto) however Atlanta finished 23rd last season in defensive effesiency, while Toronto finished 12th. I don't think one indivual can take over a game with defence, as well as a player can take over the game scoring, and Bosh is the much better scorer. Detroit for example lost a DPOY in Ben Wallace and still is the 3rd best defensive team in the league, and still ranks among the elie teams in the east. If a team lost the best scorer in the league I really doubt they would be able to stay among the elite in the league, or in offensive efficency.

NDaATL · Post #59 » by **NDaATL** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:10 pm

Adobozz wrote:Bosh is better than Smoove in everything except blocking shots. If Smoove defense is so good like u guys say it is than Bosh wouldn't drop 38 on us last night. Bosh is a better defender than Smoove also.

lol at Bosh being a better defender than Smith. Have you ever actually watched Bosh play defense? He SUCKS at it to say the least.

The only argument that could be made against Smith's defense is his man defense which has improved a ton this year. He's also one of the primary reasons we have such a good overall team defense this year. And help defense is more important than man defense, it's the reason that the Spurs/Pistons have been so good on D every year. Pierce and Ray Allen suck at man defense, but the Celtics have the top defense in the NBA because of their help D.

conleyorbust · Post #60 » by **conleyorbust** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:04 pm

HoopsGuru25 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I would never take a great defensive player over a great offensive player unless the defensive player was actually good on offense like a prime Rasheed Wallace or Jermaine O'neal. Josh is not a good offensive player right now...he has shown flashes but he is a 4th option at this point on most good teams. Bosh is a legit number 1 option on a playoff team.

Guru, I don't know how no one has responded to this but its completely ridiculous. If Smith isn't "good" on offense, there are probably only 40 or so good players in the NBA. He scores 18 ppg on a solid percentage and gives a very good amount of assists for a big man. He is good at offense. He isn't great like Bosh, but he is definitely good. As for not having an offensive identity... I don't know what to tell you if you are complaining that he can drive and post up. I thought versatility was a good thing.

Anyway, its true that Bosh is only a year or so older and only entered one year before Josh but he came into the league as a very refined player. That was what made him special as opposed to just a very good prospect. Smith on the other hand came in incredibly raw, even now as much as he has improved, he still has a ways he can go if he puts in the effort. Its hard to know how much Bosh will improve but it's possible that Smith will be better than him in the future. Especially if he can knock down the 15 footer a little more consistently (probably the thing we can be the least sure about), because then he would be able to shoot if a player slacked off of him or he could go to the hole or he could post up like we have seen him to to weaker PFs like Rashard Lewis, Jamison, G. Wallace, Jarron Collins, etc.

Aguy with Smith's ability to catch oops should really have a point guard. Anyway if I had to pick one of these guys for today I take Bosh because he can come in and be the go-to guy from day one. I think a lot of league personnel would think hard about the long term though because Smith has proven he can get better and his game is so multifaceted already with his ability to facilitate the offense and defend the court so well.