John Collins Edited: (Hawks Seek Lottery Pick For Collins)

[jayu70]

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[jayu70]

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[Jamaaliver]

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[Jamaaliver]

This dude is gonna get a huge offer this summer...from someone.

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[D21]

This dude is gonna get a huge offer this summer...from someone

Sure, but what about the fact that Bogi just signed for 72M/4yrs and has, I would say, the same impact on this team ?
Capela is a different thing as he signed some seasons ago, but I think Bogi should be a good base to build the future contracts, and even if I thought the 90M/4yrs offer was a bit low, and would have offer 100M/4yrs or 115-120M/5yrs with a flat contract, I think it's already paying big money, not deserved more than what Bogi got. So cut it in the middle of Bogi contract and what another team would offer, and it's a win-win for both him and the team.

Imagined he signs for 120M/4yrs, it's almost 10M more per season than what Bogi got, and with 10M, you have a good player on the bench, or it's what can make you keeping two players instead of one on future negociations.

I'd so much like to keep everybody and let them improving by themselves, just playing together, it would so much fun for years to come and great for them if they become a real contender

[Spud2nique]

[kg01]

This dude is gonna get a huge offer this summer...from someone

Sure, but what about the fact that Bogi just signed for 72M/4yrs and has, I would say, the same impact on this team ?
Capela is a different thing as he signed some seasons ago, but I think Bogi should be a good base to build the future contracts, and even if I thought the 90M/4yrs offer was a bit low, and would have offer 100M/4yrs or 115-120M/5yrs with a flat contract, I think it's already paying big money, not deserved more than what Bogi got. So cut it in the middle of Bogi contract and what another team would offer, and it's a win-win for both him and the team.

Imagined he signs for 120M/4yrs, it's almost 10M more per season than what Bogi got, and with 10M, you have a good player on the bench, or it's what can make you keeping two players instead of one on future negociations.

I'd so much like to keep everybody and let them improving by themselves, just playing together, it would so much fun for years to come and great for them if they become a real contender

Nothing wrong with this thought process.

I simply don't understand folks being scared to pay our guys. The Hawks developed Jollins into what he is. Why let some other team reap the rewards? If that's not a guy you pay, who is?

Guess what? Winning is expensive. Get used to it or get comfortable rooting for losing. That's kinda the choice.

[Jamaaliver]

I simply don't understand folks being scared to pay our guys. The Hawks developed Jollins into what he is. Why let some other team reap the rewards? If that's not a guy you pay, who is?

Guess what? Winning is expensive. Get used to it or get comfortable rooting for losing. That's kinda the choice.

Yes. Winning is expensive. But spending top money on secondary players is counter to winning. At this point, Collins is the 3rd or 4th most important player on the team. Paying $28+ million for him to avg 17 points and 8 rebounds is insane.

That money is better served on DeAndre Hunter, Okongwu or Clint Capela's next contracts.

Overpaying secondary players hamstrings cap flexibility. The bigger issue isn't whether to overpay Collins (or any other player not named Trae Young), it's waiting so long that you're put into a position where you absolutely have to overpay or lose the player for nothing.

The way we did with Millsap.
And Horford.
And Smoove.

Hard truth: I'm ready to root for a true contender. I can't honestly say paying John Collins $110+ million over the next 4 years makes that happen.

I'd rather trade JC Kid for a disgruntled superstar who likes what we're doing here.

[kg01]

I simply don't understand folks being scared to pay our guys. The Hawks developed Jollins into what he is. Why let some other team reap the rewards? If that's not a guy you pay, who is?

Guess what? Winning is expensive. Get used to it or get comfortable rooting for losing. That's kinda the choice.

Yes. Winning is expensive. But spending top money on secondary players is counter to winning. At this point, Collins is the 3rd or 4th most important player on the team. Paying $28+ million for him to avg 17 points and 8 rebounds is insane.

That money is better served on DeAndre Hunter, Okongwu or Clint Capela's next contracts.

Overpaying secondary players hamstrings cap flexibility. The bigger issue isn't whether to overpay Collins (or any other player not named Trae Young), it's waiting so long that you're put into a position where you absolutely have to overpay or lose the player for nothing.

The way we did with Millsap.
And Horford.
And Smoove.

Hard truth: I'm ready to root for a true contender. I can't honestly say paying John Collins $110+ million over the next 4 years makes that happen.

I'd rather trade JC Kid for a disgruntled superstar who likes what we're doing here.

Okongwu? Really, man? I like the kid but it's 2021 and he's several orders of magnitude less important than Jollins is right now. Paying him isn't even on the radar of decisions to be made. Paying Hunter isn't even on the 'to do' list yet. If you run a team that way, you're setting yourself up to always be tanking.

"Oh crap, we have a 4th year guy set to be paid. Let's trade him for a lotto pick and start over." That's ridiculous. And what disgruntled superstar is available, right now, for a rFA? That's easy to say but the reality is that's not a likely scenario.

Anyway, worrying about paying other guys is a bridge you cross when you come to it. Can't be resetting every 2-3 years because you're scared to pay someone market rate.

And losing talented players for nothing is what poor GM's do (or ones tryna be too cute like Dan E. strAinge). We no longer have a poor GM so there's no need to worry about that.

Sure they need to be aware that other guys are coming down the pipe to be paid, but you can't paralyze yourself either.

[Jamaaliver]

Agree to disagree.

But Huerter and Trae are up for extensions this summer.

D Hunter is set to be extended next summer.

We can’t afford to keep everyone.

I will say that Collins appears to be the heart and soul of that locker room. That isn’t easily replaced. But Capela is soooo good and appears to have embraced a leadership role.

Damn near making Collins expendable.

[jayu70]

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It had to be John Collins. It wouldn’t have been as fitting if it was anyone else on the roster. This new era of the Hawks all started with him when the team decided it was going to build through the draft.

After a first-round exit in the 2016-2017 playoffs, the Hawks turned in Collins’ name with the 19th overall draft pick. He was an athletic big man out of Wake Forest who was raw, who was a tweener four-five on the basketball court and who certainly wouldn’t have been in a position to make the shot he hit with 24 seconds remaining in Wednesday night’s playoff-clinching win over the Wizards.

He attempted one 3 in college. It was a heave. He didn’t shoot any 3s in high school. Being on a rebuilding team where the wins came second to development allowed Collins to find his shooting touch. He attempted 47 in his rookie season; he’s attempted over 200 in Year 4 and is shooting 39 percent after shooting over 40 percent last season.

The Hawks won 24 games in his rookie season, then 29, then 20. By now, Collins said he would have already had his summer vacation plans locked in and where he was going to train in the offseason.

Not this year.

The longest-tenured Hawk hadn’t attempted a more meaningful shot in his career until that moment.

“I saw Trae driving in and I knew he was going to pass it to me,” Collins said. “I stood on that angle of the court where I just hit a 3 a couple of possessions earlier. I was so locked in. I couldn’t hear anything. I just remember me releasing the ball thinking, ‘please go in,’ and it went in. I couldn’t even process anything. I was just so locked in on that moment that I wanted to make the shot and I did.”

[jayu70]

Agree to disagree.

But Huerter and Trae are up for extensions this summer.

D Hunter is set to be extended next summer.

We can’t afford to keep everyone.

I will say that Collins appears to be the heart and soul of that locker room. That isn’t easily replaced. But Capela is soooo good and appears to have embraced a leadership role.

Damn near making Collins expendable.

Trae and Huerter are eligible for early extensions. Trae will definitely get his early max rookie extension. There is no guarantee that Huerter and the team will be able to negotiate an early extension ala John Collins this past offseason. What if Huerter sees himself as a starter and since Bogi is here decided to test RFA?
We are assuming Hunter will also get an early extension - again, no guarantee that happens.

[Jamaaliver]

^Then we’ll be in the same position we’re in right now: Deciding whether to trade the player, overpay the player or let the player walk away.

Every team gets stuck making these same decisions. Time and again. Denver, Philly, Utah, LAL, Clippers.

This is what GMs get paid to decide.

I look forward to seeing it all play out.

[kg01]

Can't be motivated by fear.

[jayu70]

^Then we’ll be in the same position we’re in right now: Deciding whether to trade the player, overpay the player or let the player walk away.

Every team gets stuck making these same decisions. Time and again. Denver, Philly, Utah, LAL, Clippers.

This is what GMs get paid to decide.

I look forward to seeing it all play out.

Exactly, that is how this works - nothing new.

[Jamaaliver]

Can't be motivated by fear.

Asset management, baby.

I’m still holding out hope for a Superstar trade with Collins as centerpiece.

[jayu70]

Can't be motivated by fear.

Asset management, baby.

I’m still holding out hope for a Superstar trade with Collins as centerpiece.

Can you list the ones that may or may not be available that you would be interested in?

[jayu70]

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[kg01]

Can't be motivated by fear.

Asset management, baby.

I’m still holding out hope for a Superstar trade with Collins as centerpiece.

Unlikely. And even if it does happen it'll be after Jollins gets his next contract, not before.

[Jamaaliver]

Unlikely. And even if it does happen it'll be after Jollins gets his next contract, not before.

On that we agree. One benefit of a new Collins contract, if it isn’t obscenely high, it makes getting value back in a trade much more manageable.

Question for you: if Travis was willing to pay any number to keep Collins, why didn’t he budge during their extension negotiations last fall?

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Going through the uncertainty of this season and having the possibility of an ugly, backloaded RFA contract to match is much less appealing than just signing him outright last offseason.

I can’t imagine we’d let Trae get anywhere near RFA.