John Collins Edited: (Hawks Seek Lottery Pick For Collins)

[Jamaaliver]

TIFWIW

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I really hope it’s front loader so it decreases in value as the other young players are getting pay raises…also making it easier to trade him down the line.

[Jamaaliver]

Top 5 Restricted Free Agents

John Collins

Is John Collins a max contract player? That’s the question that comes up most often with the uber-athletic forward from the Atlanta Hawks. According to ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, Collins turned down a reported offer in excess of $90 million from the Hawks. Looking for a max contract, it’s hard to see a team offering that level of a deal. But as we’ve learned, all it takes is one offer.

Many of the teams that can max cap space in free agency (the New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks) will be more pressed to find help on the perimeter rather than at the power forward position. The San Antonio Spurs do seem like a possibility. With max space, the Spurs could lavish an offer on Collins near the max and put some pressure on the Hawks.

Collins’ fit is awkward with Atlanta. He would be best used as a pick-and-roll finisher, but the presence of center Clint Capela has ultimately forced the power forward to operate from the corners or in the midpost in Atlanta’s offense.

Though he had flashes of good play in Atlanta’s postseason run, Collins ended up being more of a complementary player in the team’s offense. Is it worth paying the power forward a max deal if he’s relegated to more of a supporting role? A potential Collins deal and Trae Young’s eventual max extension will lock the Hawks into this roster for quite some time. After a run that got the team to the Conference Finals, it’s hard to envision the team taking another step.

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[tbhawksfan1]

Top 5 Restricted Free Agents

John Collins

Is John Collins a max contract player? That’s the question that comes up most often with the uber-athletic forward from the Atlanta Hawks. According to ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, Collins turned down a reported offer in excess of $90 million from the Hawks. Looking for a max contract, it’s hard to see a team offering that level of a deal. But as we’ve learned, all it takes is one offer.

Many of the teams that can max cap space in free agency (the New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks) will be more pressed to find help on the perimeter rather than at the power forward position. The San Antonio Spurs do seem like a possibility. With max space, the Spurs could lavish an offer on Collins near the max and put some pressure on the Hawks.

Collins’ fit is awkward with Atlanta. He would be best used as a pick-and-roll finisher, but the presence of center Clint Capela has ultimately forced the power forward to operate from the corners or in the midpost in Atlanta’s offense.

Though he had flashes of good play in Atlanta’s postseason run, Collins ended up being more of a complementary player in the team’s offense. Is it worth paying the power forward a max deal if he’s relegated to more of a supporting role? A potential Collins deal and Trae Young’s eventual max extension will lock the Hawks into this roster for quite some time. After a run that got the team to the Conference Finals, it’s hard to envision the team taking another step.

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Yeah...real hard...unless Hunter, Cam, OO, Heurter or JJ become even better players than JC
It's so amazing to me that no one seems to have any faith in our young guys potential

[D21]

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I really hope it’s front loader so it decreases in value as the other young players are getting pay raises…also making it easier to trade him down the line.

His Max first year will be around 28M, so it's possible to start with that, and decrease it by up to 8%, so 2.24M per year.
Pick 2M decrease and it can be 28-26-24-22-20 = 120M
I hope it's like that, or at worst a flat 24M/yr

[jayu70]

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I really hope it’s front loader so it decreases in value as the other young players are getting pay raises…also making it easier to trade him down the line.

His Max first year will be around 28M, so it's possible to start with that, and decrease it by up to 8%, so 2.24M per year.
Pick 2M decrease and it can be 28-26-24-22-20 = 120M
I hope it's like that, or at worst a flat 24M/yr

Depends on what we want to do with the $9.5 million MLE. Do we want to use the full value of it on a Center AND stay under the Luxury Tax Season or not.
By my rudimentary math if JC signs at $28 mil, fill the rest of the roster with vet mins, we'll have approximately $5 mil to spend on a C to avoid the tax this year (which I think we should). Once Trae's contract kicks in next year we'll be in LT. We shouldn't be a repeat Tax offender this early.

[hawks_fan25]

I really hope it’s front loader so it decreases in value as the other young players are getting pay raises…also making it easier to trade him down the line.

His Max first year will be around 28M, so it's possible to start with that, and decrease it by up to 8%, so 2.24M per year.
Pick 2M decrease and it can be 28-26-24-22-20 = 120M
I hope it's like that, or at worst a flat 24M/yr

Depends on what we want to do with the $9.5 million MLE. Do we want to use the full value of it on a Center AND stay under the Luxury Tax Season or not.
By my rudimentary math if JC signs at $28 mil, fill the rest of the roster with vet mins, we'll have approximately $5 mil to spend on a C to avoid the tax this year (which I think we should). Once Trae's contract kicks in next year we'll be in LT. We shouldn't be a repeat Tax offender this early.

I’m looking for a Gallo trade this year and a CC trade next year when OO is ready to take the reigns as our starting C. We’d likely be under LT if we keep making those types of moves.

[jayu70]

His Max first year will be around 28M, so it's possible to start with that, and decrease it by up to 8%, so 2.24M per year.
Pick 2M decrease and it can be 28-26-24-22-20 = 120M
I hope it's like that, or at worst a flat 24M/yr

Depends on what we want to do with the $9.5 million MLE. Do we want to use the full value of it on a Center AND stay under the Luxury Tax Season or not.
By my rudimentary math if JC signs at $28 mil, fill the rest of the roster with vet mins, we'll have approximately $5 mil to spend on a C to avoid the tax this year (which I think we should). Once Trae's contract kicks in next year we'll be in LT. We shouldn't be a repeat Tax offender this early.

I’m looking for a Gallo trade this year and a CC trade next year when OO is ready to take the reigns as our starting C. We’d likely be under LT if we keep making those types of moves.

The Gallo move I can definitely see happening at the deadline depending on how the team and him are playing. OO being out with the injury gives me pause on moving Clint so readily particularly because we wouldn't have a backup to OO. I would like to think Hunter and/or Reddish will be getting max extensions but they have a lot to prove this coming season by just staying on the floor, so I'm not penciling them in just yet. If Huerter/Hunter/Reddish progress as we are hoping, Bogi might be the guy to trade.

[D21]

Every options are possible during or after this season, but what is sure is that it may be the last season with everybody and the best potential at winning a title. Once we start to loose some players, it will show if the one being paid a lot were the one to keep.
I just don't want to see any situation like UTA this summer where they are searching now how to pay less after having paid to much on their players.

[jayu70]

Every options are possible during or after this season, but what is sure is that it may be the last season with everybody and the best potential at winning a title. Once we start to loose some players, it will show if the one being paid a lot were the one to keep.
I just don't want to see any situation like UTA this summer where they are searching now how to pay less after having paid to much on their players.

Utah's issue is that most of their guys are on their 3rd contracts and they have an aging core...Conley 33, Ingles 33, Bojan 31, Favors 30 Gobert 29, Clarkson 29. Only Donovan Mitchell is on his 2nd contract and young. Harder to trade those older guys for real value.

[Jamaaliver]

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[CP War Hawks]

I wonder if a trade straight up for Simmons makes sense with Collins. Simmons is not a great fit especially with Capela.

[D21]

I wonder if a trade straight up for Simmons makes sense with Collins. Simmons is not a great fit especially with Capela.

Ben Simmons ?
I know that it's Jamaal's dream, and it's not that his talent would not be usable here, even if it may require some adjustment (Capela), but the main problem I see is his salary, it would make more than Collins to adjust, and then the risk of loosing one of of young guys to extend later.
Would the team be better with him instead of several of our young guys ? I seriously doubt it, especially now that we know how to beat PHI in playoffs, I don't see any reason to help them adjusting their team

If we don't want John being signed at Max (starting at 28M) because it would make it harder to keep everybody, how can we want a guy at 35 to 40M/yr ?

It would be different with a team stucked at fighting for a playoffs spot or on several first rounds exit, but ATL just finished 2-4 in the ECF while being the most injured team of any playoffs teams. They may have got a title if no injury happened. Just keep them, and let them play this season, we will know if any change is require by February

Regarding John, I'm not sure that making the 200M on Trae public as fast as possible, even faster than possible (it was 6 hours later initially for the rookie contracts) helped for the negotiation with John...

[Jamaaliver]

Just keep them, and let them play this season, we will know if any change is require by February…

This part Is more than reasonable.

[ghsermon]

I'd never look down on a guy for trying to maxmimize his earnings, and this notion that he should take a "hometown discount" I don't buy into, but c'mon Collins I think you are making a big mistake. You are betting on yourself to earn that 5 year 150 mil contract next year. But if you play out your contract this year with the 6 mil qualifying offer you are looking at 6 years/156 mil(26 mil annually) and re-enter free agency at 29 years old vs 5 years/125 mil(25 mil annually) and re-enter free agency at 28 years old. I personally just don't see the risk for him unless he completely just feels on principle that he should have a max contract, or would like to explore going to a new team next year. Thing he has to be cautious about is next year you potentially have KD, Harden, Kyrie, Beal, Lavine, Julius Randle hitting free agency next year so you might Nerlens/Schroeder yourself.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I wonder if a trade straight up for Simmons makes sense with Collins. Simmons is not a great fit especially with Capela.

Ben Simmons ?
I know that it's Jamaal's dream, and it's not that his talent would not be usable here, even if it may require some adjustment (Capela), but the main problem I see is his salary, it would make more than Collins to adjust, and then the risk of loosing one of of young guys to extend later.
Would the team be better with him instead of several of our young guys ? I seriously doubt it, especially now that we know how to beat PHI in playoffs, I don't see any reason to help them adjusting their team

If we don't John being signed at Max because it would make it harder to keep everybody, how can we want a guy at 35 to 40M/yr ?

It would be different with a team stuck at fighting for a playoffs spot or on first round exit, but ATL just finish 2-4 in the ECF while being the most injured team of any playoffs teams. They may have got a title if no injury happened. Just keep them, and let them play this season, we will know if any change is require by February

Regarding John, I'm not sure that making the 200M on Trae public as fast as possible, even faster than possible (it was 6 hours later initially for the rookie contracts) helped for the negotiation with John...

My dream as well, and although we would have to make some adjustments with Simmons on the roster, he'd greatly anchor our defense and provide us the 2nd star we need on this roster right now.

If you're maxing or near maxing John, then might as well get more in terms of our actual weakness(defense, secondary ball handler, playmaking outside of Trae). The only thing we lose in that deal is spacing, but it's not like John is a volume shooter either. We still get the oops, and our transition offense takes a huge leap forward.

[D21]

My dream as well, and although we would have to make some adjustments with Simmons on the roster, he'd greatly anchor our defense and provide us the 2nd star we need on this roster right now.

If you're maxing or near maxing John, then might as well get more in terms of our actual weakness(defense, secondary ball handler, playmaking outside of Trae). The only thing we lose in that deal is spacing, but it's not like John is a volume shooter either. We still get the oops, and our transition offense takes a huge leap forward.

I hear you, but regarding the defense, even if Simmons is a top defender, do we need his defense ?
ATL beat them, without their best defender in Hunter, and also Reddish.
For me, the problem is not John, I don't want him at more than 25M and I would prefer less. I'm more thinking about Hunter and Reddish who could cost later what Simmons alone would earn, and I would prefer to have Hunter and Reddish (if they continue to improve) than Simmons.
Despite all the injuries, but because of team depth, they reached the ECF, and I'd prefer to not change anything and try to win it this season with this depth

[shakes0]

he signed the deal! 5/125.

[VCfor3]

Feels like a win for you guys with that contract seeing as it isn't the max but he still gets to be very well payed.

[Jamaaliver]

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[HMFFL]

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Happy it's over and done.

Yes, Collins bet on himself! And it worked out but we needed to see a full season of work out of him before offering 125m.

Now, we can move forward, and focus on what's next.

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