John Collins Edited: (Hawks Seek Lottery Pick For Collins)

[jayu70]

The average value of Collins' new deal is $25 million. His base salary for the 2021-22 season will be $21.6 million.

[Geaux_Hawks]

My dream as well, and although we would have to make some adjustments with Simmons on the roster, he'd greatly anchor our defense and provide us the 2nd star we need on this roster right now.

If you're maxing or near maxing John, then might as well get more in terms of our actual weakness(defense, secondary ball handler, playmaking outside of Trae). The only thing we lose in that deal is spacing, but it's not like John is a volume shooter either. We still get the oops, and our transition offense takes a huge leap forward.

I hear you, but regarding the defense, even if Simmons is a top defender, do we need his defense ?
ATL beat them, without their best defender in Hunter, and also Reddish.
For me, the problem is not John, I don't want him at more than 25M and I would prefer less. I'm more thinking about Hunter and Reddish who could cost later what Simmons alone would earn, and I would prefer to have Hunter and Reddish (if they continue to improve) than Simmons.
Despite all the injuries, but because of team depth, they reached the ECF, and I'd prefer to not change anything and try to win it this season with this depth

I'd say we definitely need his defense. Why depend on adding solely Hunter/ Reddish back into the lineup for better defense, when you can add that combo, plus a top defender. I mean I guess at minimum, 1 of them would be gone in a Simmons trade, but ultimately you still keep the other around. So either way, you still have 2 really good defenders, including 1 of those guys being a well regarded defender around the league.

We beat Philly sure, but we really skated by them. It took epic collapses for us to get by them, and i'm not sure that's something I want to depend on or hang my hat on really to tough. Many say Cam/Hunter would have improved our odds even more, but for all the love I have for them, they still haven't shown that consistently to say they are such difference makers. I believe in their potential, but I wouldn't be mad if we trade that for something that's more tangible and known. Having depth alone isn't going to make us a consistent ECF's team. Depth helped because other teams were either depleted through injuries or had no depth at all.

The kicker for me at least comes into play with what Ben can do beyond defense. He hasn't really played with another distributor, especially 1 like Trae, and my assumption would be that he's probably a lethal off the ball slasher if he could get with a guard like Trae. That and he can easily distribute himself and to others and create. The only slouch in his game is being afraid to shoot beyond the paint.

His form isn't bad at all. it's just his motion is inconsistent as he sometimes will shoot across his face. A good staff will recognize this and work more on making sure he consistently shoots straight ahead instead of across. That and it's all mental at this point for him, which leads me to say that he doesn't need to be the spacer. Let Trae, Bogi, and whoever else is on the floor with him space the floor.

[HMFFL]

Former Hawk Joe Johnson once made $24 million with us and it was his career high in earnings. Now, young men like John Collins will make in one season more than Joe Johnson ever did. Remember how it use to upset so many NBA fans that Joe made so much and how people didn't always value Joe.

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[D21]

Former Hawk Joe Johnson once made $24 million with us and it was his career high in earnings. Now, young men like John Collins will make in one season more than Joe Johnson ever did. Remember how it use to upset so many NBA fans that Joe made so much and how people didn't always value Joe.

Right, but on the flip side, it was not the same level of Salary cap

[HMFFL]

Julius Randle signs his extension. Comparing it to Collins, Randle receives a total of 5yrs, $140 million.

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[atlantabbq99]

Congratulations to Collins for getting $125 million

Thats $25 million per year. I don't agree with the signing, but good for JC.

If Collins could have gotten 30-40pts and the win in that one game where both Trae and Giannis didn't play, I would have been okay with the $25 million per, but since he didn't, I think it is an over pay.

I'm worried that Collins will end up like Tobias Harris, which is big contract and doesn't show up for big games.

I hope i'm wrong and i hope Collins can make his first all star appearance in 2022 after signing his new contract.

[jayu70]

Congratulations to Collins for getting $125 million

Thats $25 million per year. I don't agree with the signing, but good for JC.

If Collins could have gotten 30-40pts and the win in that one game where both Trae and Giannis didn't play, I would have been okay with the $25 million per, but since he didn't, I think it is an over pay.

I'm worried that Collins will end up like Tobias Harris, which is big contract and doesn't show up for big games.

I hope i'm wrong and i hope Collins can make his first all star appearance in 2022 after signing his new contract.

One game is what you are basing that decision on? If he had put up 30/40 pts in that game he'd probably have received that max contract with a starting salary next year of $28 million then you'd be saying it was only 1 game.
His contract is right where it needs to be, starting at $21.6 million next season a hair above a 32 year old Gallo.
Harris is on a max contract, Collins isn't.

[Jamaaliver]

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[atlantabbq99]

Congratulations to Collins for getting $125 million

Thats $25 million per year. I don't agree with the signing, but good for JC.

If Collins could have gotten 30-40pts and the win in that one game where both Trae and Giannis didn't play, I would have been okay with the $25 million per, but since he didn't, I think it is an over pay.

I'm worried that Collins will end up like Tobias Harris, which is big contract and doesn't show up for big games.

I hope i'm wrong and i hope Collins can make his first all star appearance in 2022 after signing his new contract.

One game is what you are basing that decision on? If he had put up 30/40 pts in that game he'd probably have received that max contract with a starting salary next year of $28 million then you'd be saying it was only 1 game. :
His contract is right where it needs to be, starting at $21.6 million next season a hair above a 32 year old Gallo.
Harris is on a max contract, Collins isn't.

One game, that is what Pro sports is all about... just ask Matt Ryan

[jayu70]

Contract details:

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?s=20

That's 4yrs/$98.4 million on the guaranteed 4 years. Hawks offered 4/$90.

[D21]

Strange structure, they only use the max first year 8% increase allowed (1.84M here) between years 2 and 3.
It's not a flat contract, but way better than a standard 8% increase which would have made :
$21 551 724
$23 275 862
$25 000 000
$26 724 138
$28 448 276

[saloonyk8]

The whole idea that we shouldn't max (or retain) Collins now because we will have to max Cam and Hunter next year is flawed... Mainly because if Cam and Hunter are hurt half the year and don't play THAT much better than previous year they will be the expendable players.

No guarantees for improvement in NBA. Very few players reach elite levels....

With that said I think Cam gonna be MVP this year lol

[D21]

The whole idea that we shouldn't max (or retain) Collins now because we will have to max Cam and Hunter next year is flawed... Mainly because if Cam and Hunter are hurt half the year and don't play THAT much better than previous year they will be the expendable players.

No guarantees for improvement in NBA. Very few players reach elite levels....

With that said I think Cam gonna be MVP this year lol

I don't think it ever was "not max Collins because we will have to max Cam and Hunter", but more than if you max Collins, every other with the same kind of impact would be allowed to ask the same thing, and you lost them or overpaid them.
At this point, I think Bogi was a good point to evaluate the other guys, as he signed this last season, and the cap is only going from 109 to 112M, which means it would be 18.5M instead of 18M for him.
Based on that, John is a bit overpaid to me, the 22.5/yr were actually fair IMO. But imagine he got the Max, you were dead on all the other future negotiations.

Now, the positive thing is that Luxury Tax will be around 137M this 2021-22 season, and almost 145M in 2022-23, when Trae's contract kicks in, and Gallo would be only 5M if cut (or 0 if traded for nothing).
Hunter and Reddish would be extended but it would only start in 2023-24, so with a higher Luxury Tax, and no Gallo.

In 2023-24, with Hunter and Reddish at 20M each, and Bogi taking his player option, it would make 126M for
Young, Bogdanovic, Reddish, Hunter, Okongwu, Collins and Jalen Johnson, with a Luxury Tax certainly at 150M.
This could be enough to re-sign Capela, but it's pretty sure one of all these guys will be out of the team by this 2023-24 season to let enough to fill the roster.
I didn't include Huerter in it as an example of the one player to loose, but if Okongwu and Johnson match John's impact by this time, John would be tradedable.

Now, if they were all signed based more on Bogi's contract, it would be easier. IMO, John doesn't deserve more than Bogi, Huerter deserve a bit less, and the younger guys have yet to prove they can be on his level without injury.
Even Trae will be a bit overpaid compared to his impact, but their more than his impact on the floor on his contract.

[saloonyk8]

IMO if Hunter and Cam are both healthy and stepping forward JC immediately becomes trade able. I do think they'll wait to see how playoffs go though because if they can exceed this year's run with healthy guys that's the dream. Trading Collins before that question is answered may be a bad idea

[Jamaaliver]

I'm thinking lunch is on John for the foreseeable future...

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[Jamaaliver]

Man, were we lucky to pull this kid from the middle of what appears to be a very underwhelming draft class.

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[Jamaaliver]

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[FroButtons]

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The Allen poster is the better picture, but the Embiid poster will win because it's Joel. Lol.

EDIT: Also, it was a playoff game, right? Game implications make it even more spectacular.

[kg01]

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The Allen poster is the better picture, but the Embiid poster will win because it's Joel. Lol.

EDIT: Also, it was a playoff game, right? Game implications make it even more spectacular.

Agree the JoeLLLL poster is better because of the magnitude of the game. Collins putting it on a t-shirt and wearing it during the next game's postgame presser just makes it legendary.

[graymule]

Hawks seek lottery pick for Collins.

Nope. Didn't happen. Therefore Atlanta signed him to a new, big contract. Wonder who
wouldn't give a lottery pick? Or, were they only teasing?

We kept our man and most everyone is happy that they did!!