Kyrie Irving would rather play somewhere else

[Jamaaliver]

I feel like Lebron got by on sheer talent and physicality. Now thats not good enough because there are people better than him talent wise or equal.

again, the difference is Lebron isnt handling his BUSINESS on the court.

25/7/7 clearly isn't what it used to be. PK, I love you dude...I'll just agree to disagree on this one.

NOTE: Father Time catches up to us all. Particularly for those NBA players that enter the league as teenagers.

[Jamaaliver]

Kyrie Irving isn't overly selfish, but the Cavs do have a problem

After the game, a few players were puzzled to how their point guard managed to register just one measly assist while playing 39 minutes. Players are growing tired of Irving's inability to not only register a proper amount of assists at the lead guard position, but also to just move the ball.

From a statistical perspective, the notion that Irving's an inveterate ball hog seems to be something of a mixed bag. Irving ranks near the bottom of the pack among starting point guards in ball-distribution metrics, including assists per game. However, Irving also leads the Cavs in secondary or "hockey" assists — the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the bucket — and averages 8.6 "potential assists" (passes that would go down as an assist if his teammate would make the shot) per game. That's right in line with C.J. McCollum and Dwyane Wade, two other score-first guards who share the floor with another ball-dominating lead distributor.

That said, Kyrie's average time of possession is higher than LeBron's, and his average touches last longer, feature more dribbling and produce fewer points than James', providing some support for the claim that, on balance, Kyrie's offensive stewardship might be a "more is less" scenario.

His devastating handle, lightning-quick first step and shot-making ability make him one of the game's premier one-on-one players; among high-volume isolators, only Chris Bosh, Stephen Curry and Damian Lillard score more effectively on iso possessions than Kyrie, according to Synergy Sports Technology's game-charting data.

Here


He is clearly a work in progress. It comes down to player development and coaching. Having 4 coaches in 5 years hasn't helped him learn to play team ball. I'd love to see what Kenny Atkinson and Coach Bud could do with this young man in our system...next to our vets.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Kyrie is an overrated bum and Teague once again outplayed him on Saturday night. Teague +18, Kyrie -13.

Kyrie probably had 6 or 7 moves that made the crowd go WOW on Saturday and only 1 of those ended up scoring points for Cleveland.

All flash, no substance. I want no part of giving up big assets just to overpay a stat padder.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Kyrie is an overrated bum and Teague once again outplayed him on Saturday night. Teague +18, Kyrie -13.

Kyrie probably had 6 or 7 moves that made the crowd go WOW on Saturday and only 1 of those ended up scoring points for Cleveland.

All flash, no substance. I want no part of giving up big assets just to overpay a stat padder.

Bingo!!

The only benefit from Kyrie we would get is marketability.

[PandaKidd]

LOL kyrie is playing for Lebron , hes not happy. Hes 1000 times the talent that Teague is, its not even close.

Hes also coming off MAJOR KNEE SURGERY.

[King Ken]

LOL kyrie is playing for Lebron , hes not happy. Hes 1000 times the talent that Teague is, its not even close.

Hes also coming off MAJOR KNEE SURGERY.

I knew you were a Jeff Teague hater

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[PandaKidd]

LOL kyrie is playing for Lebron , hes not happy. Hes 1000 times the talent that Teague is, its not even close.

Hes also coming off MAJOR KNEE SURGERY.

I knew you were a Jeff Teague hater

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Hater?

Saying Kyrie Irving has more talent than Teague makes me a hater? nah that makes you a HOMER.

Statistically (and coming from personal experience) there is a "LOST YEAR" when you have major knee surgery. Theres hundreds of cases of poor shooting, bad play coming off knee surgery, they call it the LOST YEAR.

Kyrie has his faults, but lets ignore some of the context (playing for a different coach every year, injuries, Lebron playing Alpha Male while KI is an Alpha).

Teague is a good player, hes not in the same league as KI. no one thinks that.

[PandaKidd]

yall really doing this **** again?

I remember last year when people were like I WOULDNT WANT WESTBROOK MAN HE WOULDNT FIT THE SYSTEM LOLOL

get out of here

[Jamaaliver]

LOL kyrie is playing for Lebron , hes not happy. Hes 1000 times the talent that Teague is, its not even close.

Hes also coming off MAJOR KNEE SURGERY.

The only benefit from Kyrie we would get is marketability.

To be fair...at this point Kyrie does have HUGE holes in his game which can't be ignored. His defense is (usually) laughable, and he pounds the rock way too long on too many possessions. Just dribbling the shot clock down too often without ever passing the ball even once.

With that said...his skills are undeniable. His handles are incredible. On multiple occasions last week, he had Teague on skates defensively. JT0 would pressure the ball or go for a steal and KI would spin past him as if no one was guarding him at all.

His jumpshot is above avg and his ability to get into the paint and finish tough layups is elite. Not to mention his ability to draw fouls exceeds any Hawk player since Lou left town.

Admittedly, he is approaching the age where he can't really get the benefit of the doubt regarding the flaws in his game.

But talent wise, he's one of the best young guards of the last decade. This coming from a guy who thought Brandon Knight should have gone #1 that year. (Yikes!)


PS I'm telling you guys, that Ken K guy isn't worth debating. Anyone who refers to himself as the all knowing 'RC Buford' of the Hawks board is clearly not a reasonable person.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert. I was there and Kyrie had the crowd oohing and aahing all night and he missed the shot or threw the ball away after the nice dribble every time. Meanwhile, Teague was doing nothing flashy but consistently abusing Kyrie on the other end and actually leading to points for his team.

Coaches, Lebron, injuries etc. I could care less about which excuse you want to use to favor Kyrie because the fact is Teague has got the best of him throughout their professional careers. If Kyrie was so much better, this wouldn't be happening so consistently.

You all saw on Saturday night why I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs unless the Cavs send them to the bench. The only things that scare me about Cleveland are Lebron and the obvious ref agenda to favor them. Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

[PandaKidd]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert. I was there and Kyrie had the crowd oohing and aahing all night and he missed the shot or threw the ball away after the nice dribble every time. Meanwhile, Teague was doing nothing flashy but consistently abusing Kyrie on the other end and actually leading to points for his team.

Coaches, Lebron, injuries etc. I could care less about which excuse you want to use to favor Kyrie because the fact is Teague has got the best of him throughout their professional careers. If Kyrie was so much better, this wouldn't be happening so consistently.

You all saw on Saturday night why I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs unless the Cavs send them to the bench. The only things that scare me about Cleveland are Lebron and the obvious ref agenda to favor them. Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

you got SWEPT WITHOUT KYRIE AND LOVE, so now we are on the Love/Kyrie make CLE worse?

Who won the game friday, just wondering.......

At some point you guys gotta understand that you need ELITE TALENT to compete. No one in the league would take Teague over Kyrie Irving, nobody. Only Atlanta people with blinders on. Its just laughable.

[PandaKidd]

Kyrie had a rough game and still had 20 points and a victory. Averaging 20/5/3 , hes having a DOWN year and its still pretty damn good.

[PandaKidd]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert. I was there and Kyrie had the crowd oohing and aahing all night and he missed the shot or threw the ball away after the nice dribble every time. Meanwhile, Teague was doing nothing flashy but consistently abusing Kyrie on the other end and actually leading to points for his team.

Coaches, Lebron, injuries etc. I could care less about which excuse you want to use to favor Kyrie because the fact is Teague has got the best of him throughout their professional careers. If Kyrie was so much better, this wouldn't be happening so consistently.

You all saw on Saturday night why I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs unless the Cavs send them to the bench. The only things that scare me about Cleveland are Lebron and the obvious ref agenda to favor them. Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

you also , IIRC , predicted a hawks win vs the Pacers 2 years ago, and last year vs CLE. Not saying anything outside of you kinda never choose against the hawks anyway

[ATLHawksfan21]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert. I was there and Kyrie had the crowd oohing and aahing all night and he missed the shot or threw the ball away after the nice dribble every time. Meanwhile, Teague was doing nothing flashy but consistently abusing Kyrie on the other end and actually leading to points for his team.

Coaches, Lebron, injuries etc. I could care less about which excuse you want to use to favor Kyrie because the fact is Teague has got the best of him throughout their professional careers. If Kyrie was so much better, this wouldn't be happening so consistently.

You all saw on Saturday night why I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs unless the Cavs send them to the bench. The only things that scare me about Cleveland are Lebron and the obvious ref agenda to favor them. Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

you got SWEPT WITHOUT KYRIE AND LOVE, so now we are on the Love/Kyrie make CLE worse?

Who won the game friday, just wondering.......

At some point you guys gotta understand that you need ELITE TALENT to compete. No one in the league would take Teague over Kyrie Irving, nobody. Only Atlanta people with blinders on. Its just laughable.

The Cavs won the game because your savior Dennis looked like the worst player in the entire NBA on Saturday. If Dennis plays like an even halfway competent backup, we win that game easily.

See, the question isn't will you take Teague over Kyrie. The question is will you take Kyrie over Teague and Millsap.

You all were talking about trading big time assets to land Kyrie. Don't sit here and act like it's a Teague for Kyrie swap.

As far as last year's series, I have already explained in detail why their injuries did not hurt them near as much as ours hurt us. Stop acting like we were fully healthy and playing against an injured Cavs team.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert. I was there and Kyrie had the crowd oohing and aahing all night and he missed the shot or threw the ball away after the nice dribble every time. Meanwhile, Teague was doing nothing flashy but consistently abusing Kyrie on the other end and actually leading to points for his team.

Coaches, Lebron, injuries etc. I could care less about which excuse you want to use to favor Kyrie because the fact is Teague has got the best of him throughout their professional careers. If Kyrie was so much better, this wouldn't be happening so consistently.

You all saw on Saturday night why I said I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs unless the Cavs send them to the bench. The only things that scare me about Cleveland are Lebron and the obvious ref agenda to favor them. Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

you also , IIRC , predicted a hawks win vs the Pacers 2 years ago, and last year vs CLE. Not saying anything outside of you kinda never choose against the hawks anyway

and what is that supposed to prove? Most were saying we had no shot against Indy. I said we could beat them and we ended up being up 5 with 3 minutes left with a chance to close the series out in game 6. I would say my prediction was far closer than the folks who said we had no chance. It's not my fault that Bud decided to let Lou Williams go ISO-mode for the final few minutes of that game.

[Jamaaliver]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert...Teague was doing nothing flashy but consistently abusing Kyrie on the other end and actually leading to points for his team.

...the fact is Teague has got the best of him throughout their professional careers. If Kyrie was so much better, this wouldn't be happening so consistently.

Let's explore this a bit.

Has Teague really gotten the best of KI throughout their careers? KI is in year 5 and has played 12 regular season games against Teague and the Hawks.

In those games:

• KI is avg 23 ppg while shooting 48% from the field and 37% from three.
• JT0 is avg 18 ppg while shooting 53% from the field and 35% from three.
  
  
• KI is avg 6 apg against 3.4 turnovers per game
• JT0 is avg 7 apg against only 2.5 turnovers per game

Here

All that to say, their numbers are pretty comparable. The Hawks have won 9 of 12 career meetings between the two. Which makes sense as KI spent most of first few years on a lottery team, while Hawks have been a veteran playoff team for a decade.

By the numbers, I'd mainly argue that neither guard can defend the other effectively.

[Rip2137]

Teague makes less than half what Irving makes. That's the point. You would pay more than double for a guy that gives up those numbers to "non-elite" talent?

Guys generally don't win in the NBA for a reason. I said it before and I will say it again, when you are the alpha dog on your team and can barely scratch 30 wins for years, you just aren't that good. The fact is, part of the reason the Cavs sucked pre LeBron was that Kyrie had the ball enough to put up the numbers he put up. Give a marginally talented NBA player major minutes and usage he will put up impressive number. The team will also suck if they just aren't THAT good. Kyrie is a solid player and if he made 13 instead of 20 sure...i would love him. Bit like I said with Westbrook, their salaries require them to be THE man more times than not and I simply don't think they can achieve anything with the brand of basketball they play.

[Rip2137]

Just like we would have beat the Wizards in 5 if wall had played every game, we would have beaten the Cavs if Love and Irving played. Their biggest weakness was defensively at the 1 and 4. Our best offensive players were at the 1-4. Thier injuries closed one ofnthose holes and while Teague still had his way with Delly, he made life harder than Kyrie would have. I can believe you have watched a 1-4 pick and roll against the Cavs and think we wouldn't have been better off with their better offensive team playing versus the elite defensive squad they were able to put out there.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert...Teague was doing nothing flashy but consistently abusing Kyrie on the other end and actually leading to points for his team.

...the fact is Teague has got the best of him throughout their professional careers. If Kyrie was so much better, this wouldn't be happening so consistently.

Let's explore this a bit.

Has Teague really gotten the best of KI throughout their careers? KI is in year 5 and has played 12 regular season games against Teague and the Hawks.

In those games:

• KI is avg 23 ppg while shooting 48% from the field and 37% from three.
• JT0 is avg 18 ppg while shooting 53% from the field and 35% from three.
  
  
• KI is avg 6 apg against 3.4 turnovers per game
• JT0 is avg 7 apg against only 2.5 turnovers per game

Here

All that to say, their numbers are pretty comparable. The Hawks have won 9 of 12 career meetings between the two. Which makes sense as KI spent most of first few years on a lottery team, while Hawks have been a veteran playoff team for a decade.

By the numbers, I'd mainly argue that neither guard can defend the other effectively.

If Dennis doesn't play like a below average D-leaguer on Saturday, Jeff's record vs Kyrie is 10-2. Like I said, Teague has consistently owned Kyrie throughout their professional careers.

All these excuses for Kyrie. You call him one of the best young guards of the past decade and then don't hold him accountable for his teams consistently losing a ton of games with him as the lead man.

Those numbers also back what I am saying. Kyrie's numbers only look good due to high usage. Teague is shooting 5% higher than him and his asst/to ratio is 2.8 compared to Kyrie's 1.75.

Once again, Kyrie is proven to be nothing but high usage and flashy plays while playing no defense and failing to run a team oriented offense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnL_0vxKjbQ

Watch as Kyrie wants no part of defending Teague on the final play and chooses to leave his big on an island at the top of the key. You can't be a leader if you aren't willing to step up in moments like these and you can't be elite if you aren't a leader.

[Jamaaliver]

Fancy handles don't mean a thing when you fail to convert.

Now let's take a look at this statement as well.

First, let's set a baseline of how some of the other young star PGs convert once they are able to get in the lane:

• Jeff Teague shoots 51% from inside the restricted area. Half of these shot attempts within 5 feet of the rim result in a driving layup which he hits 52% of the time An impressive 90% of those driving layups are buckets he creates on his own. Here
  
  
  
• Russ Westbrook shoots 56% from inside the restricted area. RW scores in a variety of ways when he attacks off the dribble, but the highest number these shot attempts within 5 feet of the rim result in a driving layup which he hits 59% of the time Here
  
  
  
• Steph Curry shoots 65% from inside the restricted area. Sixty percent of these buckets he creates on his own.Steph scores in a variety of ways A whopping 90% of those driving layups are buckets he creates on his own Here
  
  
  
• Kyrie Irving shoots 56% from inside the restricted area. Eighty percent of these buckets he creates on his own. Almost half of these shot attempts within 5 feet of the rim result in a driving layup which he hits 59% of the time. Here
  
  
  
• Dennis Schroder shoots 53% from inside the restricted area. Two-Thirds of these shot attempts within 5 feet of the rim result in a driving layup which he hits 57% of the time Eighty percent of those driving layups are buckets he creates on his own. Here