2018 -- NBA Games Thread

[MaceCase]

If the measurement for the trade is that Cleveland is worse without Kyrie then the inverse has to be that Boston is better with him. You can't however make that determination if Kyrie doesn't play.

[Jamaaliver]

Are we not counting the 60 games he did play, the 41 wins in those games, and the All Star season he put up...when he did play?

[Jamaaliver]

Sorry Spud. You know what i always say. Jamaal is right!

...it's funny because no one says that...

[macd-gm]

If the measurement for the trade is that Cleveland is worse without Kyrie then the inverse has to be that Boston is better with him. You can't however make that determination if Kyrie doesn't play.

But he did play. And they were one of the best teams in the league with him despite not having Hayward.

But there is a point here. If for some reason Kyrie doesn't come back to the Celtics because of injury or otherwise then that's an issue. Still the Cavs have already gone there and dumped everyone they acquired for him so not seeing how the Celtics can be worse off.

[MaceCase]

60 out of 101 is... a failing grade by most academic standards. Especially when none of those 60 games included the playoffs where the Celtics performed admirably well while Kyrie had a nose job scheduled with Dr. Miami.

So if the argument is "yea, yea, the Cavs are back in the Finals but they had to go through a few game 7s so they are worse!". Well, how are we attributing Boston being a game away from the Finals to someone who hasn't played in over 3 months?

Oh, I get it. This is one of those situations where the bar is set that Boston always "wins" as so long as the Cavs "lose". Rather fair assessment, that.

[Jamaaliver]

OTHER TWEET OF THE DAY:

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[macd-gm]

60 out of 101 is... a failing grade by most academic standards. Especially when none of those 60 games included the playoffs where the Celtics performed admirably well while Kyrie had a nose job scheduled with Dr. Miami.

So if the argument is "yea, yea, the Cavs are back in the Finals but they had to go through a few game 7s so they are worse!". Well, how are we attributing Boston being a game away from the Finals to someone who hasn't played in over 3 months?

Oh, I get it. This is one of those situations where the bar is set that Boston always "wins" as so long as the Cavs "lose". Rather fair assessment, that.

I'm attributing the Celtics being a game away from the finals to the fact that the Cavs are much worse without their second best player. That's the question we are answering. At the VERY LEAST the Celtics don't miss IT and Crowder at all. While the Cavs are obviously worse without Kyrie. Does anyone disagree with that? So how are you ever going to make the case that the trade was a good thing for the Cavs?

[Jamaaliver]

60 out of 101 is... a failing grade by most academic standards.

Oh, I get it. This is one of those situations where the bar is set that Boston always "wins" as so long as the Cavs "lose". Rather fair assessment, that.

Remind me how many games Isaiah Thomas played for Cleveland again...

[MaceCase]

60 out of 101 is... a failing grade by most academic standards. Especially when none of those 60 games included the playoffs where the Celtics performed admirably well while Kyrie had a nose job scheduled with Dr. Miami.

So if the argument is "yea, yea, the Cavs are back in the Finals but they had to go through a few game 7s so they are worse!". Well, how are we attributing Boston being a game away from the Finals to someone who hasn't played in over 3 months?

Oh, I get it. This is one of those situations where the bar is set that Boston always "wins" as so long as the Cavs "lose". Rather fair assessment, that.

I'm attributing the Celtics being a game away from the finals to the fact that the Cavs are much worse without their second best player. That's the question we are answering. At the VERY LEAST the Celtics don't miss IT and Crowder at all. While the Cavs are obviously worse without Kyrie. Does anyone disagree with that? So how are you ever going to make the case that the trade was a good thing for the Cavs?

You are kind of making the point for me by saying the Cavs being in the Finals without Kyrie is somehow a bad thing for them.

There's a dozen ways to look at this trade especially since a major component to that trade was a draft pick whose career is yet to be determined but it seems that folk such as yourself have been eagerly trying to close the book on it already based solely on every Cleveland loss. There appears to be a much bigger emphasis on pointing out where Cleveland "lost" in the trade but not where Boston actually "won". Which is odd. Insanely odd. Suspiciously odd.

The biggest takeaway that can be made at this juncture is that Kyrie is a great complimentary piece as the prospects of two different teams haven't completely died in his absence. I know y'all aren't ready to go down that road yet because pumping Kyrie up helps in the "Cavs Lost" narrative, but for now, we can leave it at that.

[Jamaaliver]

the revision is skrong...

[MaceCase]

Oh, no revision here. I wasn't amongst those banging the drum that the Cavs traded a "MVP candidate" for peanuts. The only "MVP candidate" to see two teams play for a Finals without him

[Jamaaliver]

Full disclosure...I initially gave CLE an A for the trade.

That was wrong.

When the Isaiah injury concerns became public, it became undeniable that the Cavs got hustled in that deal.




Bigger picture: Cavs lucked out that Jeremy Lin got injured in Game One and Brooklyn remained a bottom team. Had they won an additional 4 or 5 games...that pick could easily be out of the top 10 of the draft.

[MaceCase]

Bigger picture?! Naw. Sounds like bigger revision. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.

[Spud2nique]

Wait. What? Ok we need impartial judges to weigh in. The bet was "Who won the trade?" Does anyone impartial still think that the Cavs won or potentially won the trade?

Not sure how they could. Cavs are undeniably a worse team since the trade.

The Cavs haul was so unimpressive they traded most of the initial pieces...for worse pieces.

Boston is in better position than if they'd kept Isaiah, Jae and #8.

Sorry Spud. You know what i always say. Jamaal is right!

I guess if you want to wait and see if Lebron 2.0 is drafted at #8 we can. But seems like you're just stalling. There's 100 ways to measure this trade but not many come up with the Cavs ahead. I realize they are in the finals again (well Lebron is) but remember they rolled the east last year losing just 1 game. They nearly lost to the Pacers and Celtics (missing 2 all stars) this year. Seems hard to make the case they are better.

Wait, let’s see...who won he trade. Let me see whose left of the teams...oh, looks like Cavs are in and Celts out. As of right now, this second, the Cavs are winning the trade. Had they kept Kyrie, they most likely would have been knocked out by now. The guy is a stat filler only and gets in Lebron’s way.

And I’ll say this, if the Cavs beat the scrubs, Cavs clearly won the deal already because getting rid of Kyrie earned them a title.

So any way you look at it, Cavs win.

[Spud2nique]

Wait. What? Ok we need impartial judges to weigh in. The bet was "Who won the trade?" Does anyone impartial still think that the Cavs won or potentially won the trade?

Not sure how they could. Cavs are undeniably a worse team since the trade.

The Cavs haul was so unimpressive they traded most of the initial pieces...for worse pieces.

Boston is in better position than if they'd kept Isaiah, Jae and #8.

Jamal you are really reaching. Boston lost buddy, dry your tears and admit that the Cavs are better via the trade. Better yet, SCOREBOARD! Cavs play on Thursday...Celts next game, preseason in October. End o diacusssion.

[Jamaaliver]

Jamal you are really reaching. Boston lost buddy, dry your tears and admit that the Cavs are better via the trade. Better yet, SCOREBOARD! Cavs play on Thursday...Celts next game, preseason in October. End o diacusssion.

Congrats to the best in the world for another huge milestone. But that doesn't really validate the argument.

One, single playoff game victory shouldn't weigh too heavily on who benefitted most from this trade. That's a foolish approach.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

One way to tell if something was an unquestioned success, is whether, in hindsight, you'd make the exact same decision again. If you ask Celtics fans this question, you'll get an overwhelming yes from a massive majority.


If you ask Cavs fans...well. I suspect the answer would be different.

[Spud2nique]

Jamal you are really reaching. Boston lost buddy, dry your tears and admit that the Cavs are better via the trade. Better yet, SCOREBOARD! Cavs play on Thursday...Celts next game, preseason in October. End o diacusssion.

Congrats to the best in the world for another huge milestone. But that doesn't really validate the argument.

One, single playoff game victory shouldn't weigh too heavily on who benefitted most from this trade. That's a foolish approach.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

One way to tell if something was an unquestioned success, is whether, in hindsight, you'd make the exact same decision again. If you ask Celtics fans this question, you'll get an overwhelming yes from a massive majority.


If you ask Cavs fans...well. I suspect the answer would be different.

I’m sorry it sounds like more “ifs” and “what could have been”...you sound more drunk than Tommy Heinsohn after a few cocktails.

I think you are trying to avoid the present. The present is a state in which we live..the now if you will. I believe the trade should look at the state of both franchises for the present and the future.

We can only judge the present for the moment. The present shows the Cavs in the finals. The present shows Boston is not.

Winner: Cavs

We can pick this convo up next year if the Celts are in the finals...if not, Cavs will still be winning the trade.

[Jamaaliver]

I’m sorry it sounds like more “ifs” and “what could have been”...you sound more drunk than Tommy Heinsohn after a few cocktails.

I think you are trying to avoid the present. The present is a state in which we live..the now if you will. I believe the trade should look at the state of both franchises for the present and the future.

We can only judge the present for the moment. The present shows the Cavs in the finals. The present shows Boston is not.

Winner: Cavs

We can pick this convo up next year if the Celts are in the finals...if not, Cavs will still be winning the trade.

Cleveland making the Finals was never really a question, was it?


Spud:

Tell me, in all honesty, you think that Ante Zizic, Jae Crowder, Isaiah Thomas and the #8 pick are worth more than Kyrie Irving...state it out loud for all time.

And stand by that declaration. Unwavering. For all your days on RealGM. No caveats. No excuses.

And I will concede.

[Spud2nique]

I’m sorry it sounds like more “ifs” and “what could have been”...you sound more drunk than Tommy Heinsohn after a few cocktails.

I think you are trying to avoid the present. The present is a state in which we live..the now if you will. I believe the trade should look at the state of both franchises for the present and the future.

We can only judge the present for the moment. The present shows the Cavs in the finals. The present shows Boston is not.

Winner: Cavs

We can pick this convo up next year if the Celts are in the finals...if not, Cavs will still be winning the trade.

Cleveland making the Finals was never really a question, was it?


Spud:

Tell me, in all honesty, you think that Ante Zizic, Jae Crowder, Isaiah Thomas and the #8 pick are worth more than Kyrie Irving...state it out loud for all time.

And stand by that declaration. Unwavering. For all your days on RealGM. No caveats. No excuses.

And I will concede.

It was in question after the Kyrie trade for sure. Don’t know cuz #8 might be something good.

[Jamaaliver]

^Yeah, if Cavs had garnered a top-3 selection, I think the argument could go either way.

But a lot has occurred since that makes me lean towards Kyrie being the greater value.