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Hoopinion Write-up on Joe/FA

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:57 am
by evildallas
http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2010/06/unsolicited-advice-on-eve-of-free.html

I'll be honest, I'm linking to it because as I read it it seemed to echo a lot of my own thoughts on the matter. The general point of the article is that the core is Josh and Al and hopefully one of Marvin, Jeff, or Jordan. We should not short sighted move that further retards the development of the core. I've maintained that for most of the off-season that we need to find out what we really have in Marvin and Jeff for better or worse.

Paraphrasing most of the points from the article
1. Joe at the max is too expensive, don't get locked into that. 6yrs/125M for him is stupid.
2. Don't sign & trade for Caron Butler or sign John Salmons. The article doesn't call them out by name be it is pretty easy to see who it means.
3. Convince Josh Childress to play out his option. (I disagree with this one, I don't want him back. I wouldn't mind sign & trade if it returned anything useful)
4. Don't use the MLE. (I sort of disagree here although I agree with not spending the full MLE on 1 player or using it on a former famous player. My thoughts are use what is at our disposal to land a young free agent SG and a backup C like Brad Miller or Channing Frye. If Joe walks and Childress is off the books without returning much then it wouldn't take the MLE).
5. Do fill out the roster with young free agents (especially those eligible to be assigned to the D-League) who can be had cheap in the short term and could be useful assets for the team, either on the court or when included in trades, in the future.

#5 I copied in verbatim. This is a very important aspect to me. We need to fill some roles cheaply to allowing spending on the core. Flexibility is important in the NBA and overpaying veterans because we think we are close has backfired already and will continue to do so. We learned we aren't that close. Sure we want to stay competitive, but not by sacrificing the flexibility necessary to get over the top when we truly are closer. You've got to get minutes from people on rookie deals and either 2nd rounders or unsigned free agents if you are going to run a team on such a tight budget. You have to be willing to risk some regular season losses to get some player development and team development in the long run.

Nothing frustrates me more that how we tie up roster spots with people unable to get on the court yet won't take a chance on a college senior in the 2nd round who could play a limited role and help out immediately or bring someone in from the D league who could possibly help. Does anyone doubt that we could have gotten as much out of Rod Benson or Alade Aminu as we did Jason Collins or Randolph Morris last year (just off energy alone)?

Re: Hoopinion Write-up on Joe/FA

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:17 am
by D21
evildallas wrote:1. Joe at the max is too expensive, don't get locked into that. 6yrs/125M for him is stupid.


And... here comes Joe "I want Max from ATL or I leave" Johnson :

According to a source close to Johnson, he has narrowed his choices to three teams: the Knicks, the Hawks and the Bulls. If Atlanta doesn't offer Johnson a six-year, max contract, he will almost certainly leave and most likely join the Knicks. Link says max/6years while Wiretap only talk about salary)


The absurdity of the case is that everybody agrees to say that he's not a Max player, not a true leader, a good second option, but because of some teams with lots of cap space this year, we have to over-over-pay him.
The guy doesn't deserve it in his stat, doesn't selll lots of tickets compare to other Max player,... and he's serious at asking that money.

We can also thanks Woody for having help Johnson make the illusion of being a Max player.
With more plays for every other players, he would not have look like that.

Now if they keep him for Max, and trade Crawford+Zaza+? or something like that and get a true Max player, and use their MLE, don't let Childress walk for nothing... maybe we can win something one day with Joe at Max.
If they doesn't want to do it, then don't sign him, that's all.

Keeping Joe at Max without wanting to spend for winning doesn't make any sense.

Re: Hoopinion Write-up on Joe/FA

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:22 pm
by Harry10
i agree with the main points. resigning Joe would not be a step back, but a step in the wrong direction. it stated something that we all know, Joe hurts the development of all the young guys. Hawks should make a commitment to winning and either get a free agent that is better than Joe, or if that falls through, sign someone like Matthews, Felton, or Marrow, and make them apart of the Hawks young core. resigning Horford (15M) and Crawford and keeping it under 60M shouldn't be a problem

Re: Hoopinion Write-up on Joe/FA

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:23 pm
by dms269
So basically they want us to suck? That makes perfect sense. To think that we had this idea that you should win games all wrong.

Right now the market says JJ is worth the max. Is he truly worth the max? I doubt it. However if we lose JJ it is detrimental to this team wanting to be successful in the league. I don't think Horford and Josh can carry a team to a title. I think that with some tweaks, JJ, Horford, and Josh can.

Re: Hoopinion Write-up on Joe/FA

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:30 pm
by Harry10
uga_dawgs24 wrote:So basically they want us to suck? That makes perfect sense. To think that we had this idea that you should win games all wrong.

Right now the market says JJ is worth the max. Is he truly worth the max? I doubt it. However if we lose JJ it is detrimental to this team wanting to be successful in the league. I don't think Horford and Josh can carry a team to a title. I think that with some tweaks, JJ, Horford, and Josh can (win a title).


you are high.

Re: Hoopinion Write-up on Joe/FA

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:35 pm
by geeman
I agree, this should be the templete that hawks ownership uses going forward.
I DO NOT WANT JOE BACK! Not for anything close to a max deal, we still have a good core. Ownership, Please do not sign joe for 120mil 6 years, if you do I'm done.....because we would be done! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Re: Hoopinion Write-up on Joe/FA

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:37 pm
by dms269
Harry10 wrote:
uga_dawgs24 wrote:So basically they want us to suck? That makes perfect sense. To think that we had this idea that you should win games all wrong.

Right now the market says JJ is worth the max. Is he truly worth the max? I doubt it. However if we lose JJ it is detrimental to this team wanting to be successful in the league. I don't think Horford and Josh can carry a team to a title. I think that with some tweaks, JJ, Horford, and Josh can (win a title).


you are high.


You left out the with some tweaks. I still feel that a core of jj, smith, and horford is better going forward than a core of just smith and horford.