RealGM

link to excerpt on realgm front page.

I was OK with Shaq but don't mind the end of the speculation - specifically the part where we don't have a starting SF.

But then there was this little nugget in the article:

Chris Thomasson wrote:A source says Atlanta's ownership doesn't want to exceed the luxury-tax threshold of $70.307 million. They are currently about $4 million shy.

OK, I'm officially p!ssed. Either a) Chris Thomasson has a bad source, or b) the entire "We'll pay the tax to put a better team on the court" is complete bull****. I'd guess a) if it wasn't for the fact that we basically gave away Chills for nothing... pieces of sh**.

It doesn't make sense for them to pay the tax for this team. They don't draw well and they get destroyed in the playoffs. That's why re-signing Joe was stupid if he wasn't willing to leave ANY money on the table to stay.

Also...it doesn't cost any money to say that you'd be willing to pay the tax. Just like it doesn't cost money for teams to come out and say that 'we'll match any offer" when it obviously isn't true in some cases.

All this means is that the Hawks refuse to overpay Shaq. He played his card, asking for starter's minutes and $16 million for 2 years. The Hawks have responded, saying they have to sign 3 players and stay under the luxury tax cap. They can only afford Shaq if the deal allows them to still sign 2 more players. Seems to me that the more teams reject Shaq, the bolder the Hawks are getting about being cheap.

If Shaq wants to get paid, he'll have to sign cheaper than he wants -- here or somewhere.

theatlfan wrote:OK, I'm officially p!ssed. ... the entire "We'll pay the tax to put a better team on the court" is complete bull...

I took that statement to mean they'd go over for Chris Paul or someone like that, not for a backup center.

parson wrote:

theatlfan wrote:OK, I'm officially p!ssed. ... the entire "We'll pay the tax to put a better team on the court" is complete bull...

I took that statement to mean they'd go over for Chris Paul or someone like that, not for a backup center.

Ditto. I think the ASG will go into the tax, but only for someone who can play and also put bodies in seats.

^Like Al Horford next year.

Actually, I think - if Shaq would lessen his demands, we could SNT Zaza to CLE for Shaq.

$4,750,000, Shaq? What'dya say?

Seriously, how could CLE say no? They're losing 2 centers (Shaq and Ilgauskas) and could have Zaza for relatively cheap.

Same thing for CHI/Miller -- they couldn't afford to say no.

parson wrote:

theatlfan wrote:OK, I'm officially p!ssed. ... the entire "We'll pay the tax to put a better team on the court" is complete bull...

I took that statement to mean they'd go over for Chris Paul or someone like that, not for a backup center.

Actually someone like Chris Paul would require a salary match trade so that move by itself wouldn't cause luxury tax. Replacing the players given up in the trade might.

I believe Bradley's article specifically said that they were not opposed to using the MLE and exceeding the luxury tax threshold to improve the competitiveness of the team. So perhaps they don't think Shaq would improve the team enough or that there are better alternatives. If it is a matter of not willing to exceed the luxury tax under any reasonable circumstance (Chris Paul is a special case), then I am further upset with the ASG. Not for the unwillingness to spend past the threshold, but for the absurd contract they signed Joe to given their constraints. That is unforgivable. I look forward to the mid-Winter do-over trade and I really look forward to the day these clowns sell the franchise.

Same thing for CHI/Miller -- they couldn't afford to say no.

Chicago could offer Miller more money than the Hawks and stay under the luxury tax.

I always thought the key to getting Shaq was to move Bibby 1st. Bibby to NY for a TE would have allowed us to sign Shaq and a backup pg but they signed Felton(who is imo a worse fit) instead.

One clarification for me. I'm not upset about no Shaq, I'm upset about the no spending.

BTW, what 3 spots need signed?

Joe's Contract is whats going to doom this team, I still believe Horford will be gone next season.

evildallas wrote:One clarification for me. I'm not upset about no Shaq, I'm upset about the no spending.

BTW, what 3 spots need signed?

I would think

back-up SF-PF-C (Jefferson, Hayes, Barnes/Hendrix??/O'Neal, Miller, Magloire).

To be honest, I am still hoping for a trade involving a starting PG like Paul or at least an improvment with Collison or Mo Williams...

I do understand that they did not want to overspend on Chill when you can have Hayes or Barnes cheaper... I do understand too that they they do not want to overspend for Shaq.
So far the improvment has been limited at another year together for the nucleus of top 8 including Zaza, Mo and JC1 with the addition of expected PT and exp for JT and addition of JC2...quite meager compare to competitors in the conference. Hopefully more will happen before season starts or when JJ can be involved in a trade (if that's even a remote possibility now)...

you think portland would do this?

Incoming Players
Greg Oden
7-0 C from Ohio State
11.1 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 23.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Marvin Williams
6-8 SF from North Carolina
10.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 30.5 minutes
Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -1.0 ppg, -3.4 rpg, and +0.2 apg.
Incoming Players
Marvin Williams
6-8 SF from North Carolina
10.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 30.5 minutes
Outgoing Players
Greg Oden
7-0 C from Ohio State
11.1 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 23.9 minutes


Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/#ixzz0tsP6j4Nu

geeman wrote:you think portland would do this?

Incoming Players
Greg Oden
7-0 C from Ohio State
11.1 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 23.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Marvin Williams
6-8 SF from North Carolina
10.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 30.5 minutes
Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -1.0 ppg, -3.4 rpg, and +0.2 apg.
Incoming Players
Marvin Williams
6-8 SF from North Carolina
10.1 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 30.5 minutes
Outgoing Players
Greg Oden
7-0 C from Ohio State
11.1 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 23.9 minutes


Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/#ixzz0tsP6j4Nu

No, I don't. Oden has shown signs of being very good when healthy. He isn't on a contract that would need to be dumped even if there were significant health ?'s.

Shaq isn't the answer, but he'd provide the mental toughness and strength we'd need against a center like Howard or the bigs in Boston. It's just frustrating to see this team losing in the biggest blowout of a series in NBA history and then do absolutely nothing to improve. Beyond sickening if you ask me..

evildallas wrote:One clarification for me. I'm not upset about no Shaq, I'm upset about the no spending.

BTW, what 3 spots need signed?

Totally agree for 3 years now....that excuse doesn't work when every team around you is doing so much more than just standing pat. It tells me this ASG group has no clue what it takes to build a championship team.

Well, good luck with Joe Smith and Jason Collins against anybody because that is where Sund is headed.

The summer of 2010 for the Hawks: a collective 'yawn'.

Hawkeyes wrote:Shaq isn't the answer, but he'd provide the mental toughness and strength we'd need against a center like Howard or the bigs in Boston. It's just frustrating to see this team losing in the biggest blowout of a series in NBA history and then do absolutely nothing to improve. Beyond sickening if you ask me..

I'm feeling about the same. The thing is that if the Hawks had let Joe walk and signed an inexpensive SG replacement and then publicly said "we've seen how far that version of the Hawks could go and we have to be willing to take a step back to move forward ultimately" I think the majority of the fan base would have been okay with the decision and direction of the team. Instead they spent all their money on a band-aid when surgery was needed. What's the upside to that? We might get swept in the playoffs without setting another record for losing margin?
As a franchise, we're keeping our feet on the ground, but we aren't reaching for the stars. Hell, I feel like we aren't even raising our hands.

evildallas wrote:

Hawkeyes wrote:Shaq isn't the answer, but he'd provide the mental toughness and strength we'd need against a center like Howard or the bigs in Boston. It's just frustrating to see this team losing in the biggest blowout of a series in NBA history and then do absolutely nothing to improve. Beyond sickening if you ask me..

I'm feeling about the same. The thing is that if the Hawks had let Joe walk and signed an inexpensive SG replacement and then publicly said "we've seen how far that version of the Hawks could go and we have to be willing to take a step back to move forward ultimately" I think the majority of the fan base would have been okay with the decision and direction of the team. Instead they spent all their money on a band-aid when surgery was needed. What's the upside to that? We might get swept in the playoffs without setting another record for losing margin?
As a franchise, we're keeping our feet on the ground, but we aren't reaching for the stars. Hell, I feel like we aren't even raising our hands.

I think that we all know this. if this is the case, why not treing to trade and improve our back court:
Bibby, JC1, Mo Evans and a couple of picks for Paul, Posey and Thortnon?
Then sign Crittenton, Hayes or Barnes and maybe Shaq at a reasonable cost as he is what is best left out there

CP4- Teague- Crittenton
JJ - JC2- Sy
Wiliams- Hayes or BarnesSmoothe- Zaza
Horford- Shaq- Morris

That's not a reasonable trade at all, NOH might never pick up the phone again.

Another season of getting crushed by Orlando. If not Shaq, we need to trade Marvin for a Center. Evenually the Hawks and fans we'll have to let go of this false hope that Marvin is going to get better, and this notion that Marvin will be better under LD is a bunch of Hog wash! Marvin is a bust, PERIOD.