Fair 3-way Trade NO/ATL/DET (No Paul)

[Spider156]

Pistons would get Josh Smith and Emeka Okafor. Atlanta would get Rip and David West. NO would get Tay, Max and Marvin Williams. Atlanta would have to run Johnson at SF though, but I don't really think thats an issue. NO gets out of the last few years of Okafors contract when Tays expires and the Pistons get a big and a defensive SF. What do you think?

[azuresou1]

Terrible for ATL.

[johnny878]

hawks giving away the most talent in the trade and are getting an old ass broken down rip and david west in return...

no thanks

[Harry10]

come on dude, no.

Josh has more value than you think and outside of DET, Rip and Prince have very very little trade value because they are only thought to work as a package with Billups.

[dms269]

Yep this isn't fair for the Hawks. Rip is old and having 3 SG's means 1 has to play out of position. Can JJ do it? Probably, but I'd rather not see it.

Then add in the fact that we want to trade Smith because we have two PF's, so what do we do? We add another PF. Makes no sense.

[ATLballer]

Yep dumbest trade i've ever seen. I have no idea why you would think this improves our team one bit. As noted RIP is an old useless SG we don't need and West is not that good anyways. Much rather keep Marvin/Smoove vs. taking those 2 bums in return.

[tiderulz]

Yep this isn't fair for the Hawks. Rip is old and having 3 SG's means 1 has to play out of position. Can JJ do it? Probably, but I'd rather not see it.

Then add in the fact that we want to trade Smith because we have two PF's, so what do we do? We add another PF. Makes no sense.

not fair to the Hawks, what about the Hornets? They give up an all-star PF, a decent but slightly overpaid defensive center and get back 2 SF's and a backup role player and undersized Maxiell. So who is supposed to play PF and Center for them? Detroit makes out like a bandit in this. Atlanta takes on some age, but it actually does make them better as a team. But their window drastically closes as the players they get are a lot older.

[tiderulz]

Yep dumbest trade i've ever seen. I have no idea why you would think this improves our team one bit. As noted RIP is an old useless SG we don't need and West is not that good anyways. Much rather keep Marvin/Smoove vs. taking those 2 bums in return.

old and useless? I agree he is old, but he put up 18 ppg last year and doesnt need the ball to do it, like JJ does. And West not good? He put up better numbers than Smith last year. He isnt the defensive presence that Smith is, but rebounds just as good and is a much better offensive threat. He can also shoot from more than 5 ft from the basket. Not a fan of either team, but as you go to different teams forums you can always see how much a team overrates their own players. Notice, im not saying Smith isnt good, but he isnt all-world either.

[azuresou1]

Yep this isn't fair for the Hawks. Rip is old and having 3 SG's means 1 has to play out of position. Can JJ do it? Probably, but I'd rather not see it.

Then add in the fact that we want to trade Smith because we have two PF's, so what do we do? We add another PF. Makes no sense.

not fair to the Hawks, what about the Hornets? They give up an all-star PF, a decent but slightly overpaid defensive center and get back 2 SF's and a backup role player and undersized Maxiell. So who is supposed to play PF and Center for them? Detroit makes out like a bandit in this. Atlanta takes on some age, but it actually does make them better as a team. But their window drastically closes as the players they get are a lot older.

A) This is a Hawks board, we don't care about how the Hornets are.
B) Are you kidding me? We get better by shedding our starting SF and PF for a worse PF and an old SG? We can get away with running two PFs because both of them are tweeners and so we'll always have a speed/athleticism advantage; with West we don't have that advantage, while still retaining the same weakness, and on top of that we start a SG at SF?

[tiderulz]

Yep this isn't fair for the Hawks. Rip is old and having 3 SG's means 1 has to play out of position. Can JJ do it? Probably, but I'd rather not see it.

Then add in the fact that we want to trade Smith because we have two PF's, so what do we do? We add another PF. Makes no sense.

not fair to the Hawks, what about the Hornets? They give up an all-star PF, a decent but slightly overpaid defensive center and get back 2 SF's and a backup role player and undersized Maxiell. So who is supposed to play PF and Center for them? Detroit makes out like a bandit in this. Atlanta takes on some age, but it actually does make them better as a team. But their window drastically closes as the players they get are a lot older.

A) This is a Hawks board, we don't care about how the Hornets are.
B) Are you kidding me? We get better by shedding our starting SF and PF for a worse PF and an old SG? We can get away with running two PFs because both of them are tweeners and so we'll always have a speed/athleticism advantage; with West we don't have that advantage, while still retaining the same weakness, and on top of that we start a SG at SF?

how is West a worse PF? He has better basketball IQ than Smith, can actually shoot from the outside, and is just as good a rebounder, and a better scorer. And putting JJ or Hamilton at SF, either 6'7 or 6'8, isnt a weakness. Most teams use a SF about that size. And living in Atlanta, all i hear is how people think Marvin was is/was a bust, and want him traded. And how has running tweeners at PF been working out for you in the post season?

I am a Magic fan. We do great with the 'stretch 4' during the season, but come playoffs, you need that solid, traditional look a lot of the times. Give us West instead of Lewis at PF, and we wouldnt have lost to Boston.

And it was just a comment on how the trade was even more horrible for NOH. As i said, the only team that really make out was Detroit, taking the best pieces.

[azuresou1]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 03&y2=2010

Smith is a better rebounder, a MUCH better passer, a better ball handler, a SIGNIFICANTLY better defender, particularly in terms of help defense, a better transition player, and just better in general. Most teams run SF's that height, but not that weight (Rip is 185, Joe is 225) - both would get out-muscled. Casual fans are stupid and wanted Josh Smith traded for cents on the dollar before last season too. And it hasn't been running tweeners at PF that's caused issues, it's been injuries (Cavs) and a lack of a true C (Orlando) combined with iso-offense and a gimmick defense that causes issues.

Actually, you do great with Shard at the stretch 4 - it's Dwight's lack of a post offense from the 5 spot that kills you.

And I saw that you commented on the NOH board that this is fair for Atlanta - it's really not. Josh Smith is already better than David West and is 6 years younger. Marvin Williams is probably on the same level as Rip Hamilton but is 8 years younger, and is actually a SF. Terrible deal for Atlanta.

[tiderulz]

Actually, you do great with Shard at the stretch 4 - it's Dwight's lack of a post offense from the 5 spot that kills you.

actually we dont do great with Shard in the stretch 4, in the post season where it counts. Shard is a SF playing PF. He is not a good rebounder and his post game, while great for a SF, isnt good against bigger stronger PF's. Dwight does lack a polished offensive game, but when used like game 4 and 5 of the boston series, when they didnt throw the ball into him with 20 seconds on the clock and expect him to run the offense, he was very explosive. He has limited moves that are good, but he shouldnt be the one right now executing the offense, it should be the PG. But SVG is in love the with the stretch 4, so Dwight will constantly be facing 2-3 players on every rebound while everyone else for Orlando is based at the 3 pt line. And we will lose in the post season every year because SVG isnt good at makign line up changes as the need happens.

[evildallas]

Didn't want to weigh in because I thought the thread would die, but as it lives I feel compelled.
Rip Hamilton - 32 year old SG with bad contract (we already have one of those) 3 years/37.5M although last year not fully guaranteed (identical salary to Josh Smith for those 3 years if kept)
David West - ETO, so likely would lose him as he and Horford hit free agent market at same time.

So we give up 3 years of Josh Smith's prime for likely 2 years of Rip's decline and give up Marvin Williams for a 1 year rental on a replacement PF. I don't dislike Marvin that much. It's an obvious Detroit homer trade and the only thing fair about it is that Detroit gives up two names and takes back a large, bad salary in Okafor. The pieces for the other teams don't fit. Not even close to a far deal, not worth discussing further.

[tiderulz]

Most teams run SF's that height, but not that weight (Rip is 185, Joe is 225) - both would get out-muscled.

i'll let this all drop, but just for comparison for you.

Gerald Wallace, 220
Tayshawn Prince, 215
Caron Butler, 228
Luol Deng, 220
Carmelo Anthony, 230
Shane BAttier, 220
Trevor Ariza, 210
Danny Granger, 228
Cory Maggette, 225
Travis Outlaw, 207
James Posey, 217
Wilson Chandler, 225
Thad Young, 220
Grant Hill, 225
Nic Batum, 200
Richard Jefferson, 225
CJ Miles, 227
Andre Kirilenko, 225
Al Thornton, 220

So yes, JJ could play SF easily. Whether you want to or not, another story, but at 225, he is slightly heavier than average for SF.