RealGM

I\The Atlanta Hawks are working hard to move point guard Mike Bibby(notes), and Washington’s Kirk Hinrich(notes) has emerged as a real target for them. Denver’s Raymond Felton(notes) and Portland’s Andre Miller(notes) also are looming large on the Hawks’ radar, sources say. The Hawks have inquired about the Nets’ Harris, but there are no deal possibilities there, sources said.

The Hawks are trying hard to rid themselves of the three years and $23.2 million left on Marvin Williams’(notes) contract after this season. “For what he makes, it’s a tough sell,” said one NBA coach whose team desires a forward who can score the ball.

The Hawks also have explored trying to trade guard Jeff Teague(notes) and swingman Maurice Evans(notes) to the Cleveland Cavaliers for guards Ramon Sessions(notes) and Manny Harris(notes), one source said.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... buzz022211

I don't want Hinrich.

Chris Sheridan posted that Atlanta is considering Teague and Evans for Sessions and Harris. If that trade is on the table they should just do it (which I assume means it isn't). I know Sessions isn't much of a defender, but Teague isn't much of anything right now. Sessions would drastically improve our offense at least. I was figuring that it would take a pick to get Sessions, if it just requires Teague then don't hesitate.

If Hinrich is in play then I hope there is more in the deal from their side. His 8M next year is cumbersome and if its just him then I don't think the bang for the buck is there.

Eh, I'd be Ok with a Hinrich for Bibby + Evans deal, but I'd think we'd need to throw another asset in... maybe we could get away with simply cash though. Bibby does have a world of knowledge that Wall could tap into - but I still figure WASH would ask for more. Dunno what would be fair though. I would say I wouldn't throw in a 1st, but the draft is so weak this year that maybe I would - if nothing else, we wouldn't have to have the guaranteed contract.

Hinrich and Bibby are basically the same type of player offensively and I'm kind of convinced that the point guard doesn't really impact team defense.

HoopsGuru25 wrote:Hinrich and Bibby are basically the same type of player offensively and I'm kind of convinced that the point guard doesn't really impact team defense.

Not sure I follow that line of reasoning. Just 1 too many x I've seen us using JJ or Marvin on the opponent's PG since Bibby simply couldn't keep up with him. Have to think that if we have to resort to using 1 of those 2 on the opposing PG, then something on the team is faltering - whether it be the D (since that means Bibby is covering someone prolly 4-5" taller) or even the O since JJ is using too much energy on D. Hinrich has lost a step and isn't the defensive presence he was in CHI several years ago, but he's better than Bibby (who isn't?). Bibby is prolly better on O though, but I don't think that downgrade is as big as the upgrade on D.

Since the new hand checking rules....Look at the top defensive teams every year and look at their point guards. It doesn't really correspond outside of Rondo.

Hinrich's per 36 production and plus/minus numbers actually look alot like Teague's.

Like Hoops, I want nothing to do with Kirk Hinrich. I think it's a false rumor and I doubt Sund would be interested.

HoopsGuru25 wrote:Since the new hand checking rules....Look at the top defensive teams every year and look at their point guards. It doesn't really correspond outside of Rondo.

Hinrich's per 36 production and plus/minus numbers actually look alot like Teague's.

I kind of think you're proving my point about Hinrich. His per-36's are similar to Bibby's, but he plays on a worse team and has a higher usage (by a decent amount of a little over 2%). Considering Bibby's TS% is about 2.5 basis points above Hinrich's, I'd assume that Hinrich's #'s would fall a little below Bibby's on a better team since he'd have a corresponding drop in Usage. BUT since his +/- is also similar (Can't find the +/- numbers immediately - too lazy or tired right now - but I'll take you at your word that they are also similar) for a team that is worse, then I'd assume that Hinrich is making up for this difference a little on the defensive end.

As for the PG D emphasis on Team D, we could debate it (Case in point: TOR allowed almost 4 more points per 100 possessions when Calderon was on the court in '08-'09 - a number his minutes, 58% of the PG minutes, nor his backup, Roko Ukic, could easily explain away), but that really isn't the point. It isn't so much the regular season - many teams don't have enough weapons (or use a primary weapon that they chose to use to the exclusion of others) so that we can hide Bibby on someone and let him use his b-ball knowledge (which was prolly elite when he entered the league... so forth now after 12 years in the pros) to harass the scheme instead of a man. But come playoff time, teams have less holes where we put Bibby without creating a mismatch that allow an opponent to force Bibby to play the man instead of the scheme. 3 years ago, Rondo had a coming out party by dominating Bibby; last year, Nelson completely owned Bibby to the point we barely played him 11 minutes in the last game of the series. In all honesty, we could have taking the hit of Carter/Howard and even BOS's big 3 (don't think we could have taken what 'Bron gave 2 years ago though), but the fact that we were taken to task in the other matchups was a huge failing for us. Sure, Bibby was just 1 of those matchups, but he's been a big one in the playoffs.

Now, would Hinrich adequately fill where Bibby failed? I dunno - maybe, maybe not. It seems like a fairly lateral move, but one that I'd make in the sense of redesigning for the playoffs. It isn't like the salary difference is so stark that there is a huge risk if it doesn't work out. Or even that Hinrich is a head case that has a chance of completely blowing our chemistry. Obviously, I'd look for better, but if WASH was compliant with a Hinrich for Bibby + small assets, then I'd do that over doing nothing.

HMFFL wrote:Like Hoops, I want nothing to do with Kirk Hinrich. I think it's a false rumor and I doubt Sund would be interested.

Yeah, most rumors are generally 1/2 truths at best. But still, it's not like anyone is suggesting trading Smoove or Horford for the guy - we're talking Mike Bibby, minor futures, and filler... at best. Is Hinrich good enough to become part of our core? No, but he could be good enough to allow our core to focus on things they do best a little more. That alone means I'd take the chance - provided that there really isn't anything else that makes better sense.

We're rumored to be pursuing every PG on the market. The sad thing will be not getting one of them as the deadline passes. In particular Harris, Sessions, Miller, Brooks, or even Calderon. No to Hinrich and Mo Williams. Once the deadline passes our only hope will be a buyout of TJ Ford, which is really sad.

I'd love to get a big as well, but I'm just desperate for a PG upgrade right now and can't think of anything else.

myrak433 wrote:I\The Atlanta Hawks are working hard to move point guard Mike Bibby(notes), and Washington’s Kirk Hinrich(notes) has emerged as a real target for them. Denver’s Raymond Felton(notes) and Portland’s Andre Miller(notes) also are looming large on the Hawks’ radar, sources say...

It would still be better to keep Bibby who is not overpaid for the impact he bring, and put him at backup PG.
If we want to win something, we need his 3pts shot, and he's leadership. Except Al, he's the onl one who has leadership.

We won't be so much better with Hinrich instead of Bibby, but with both, it's a clear upgrade.
They need to try to move Marvin/Zaza/Evans/Teague and even Josh (or Crawford, but trading him is very different if they don't want to pay LT next year) before thinking about moving Bibby. I hope it's not the first thing they are trying to do.
Same thing with Miller, what we get on one side is loose on the other. We would need a shooter if we trade Bibby for Miller.

It could be different with Felton, but if we trade for Hinrich, Miller or Session, I prefer keeping Bibby.

The deal Session for Evans/Teague makes us better than if we put Bibby in a trade for Miller, Hinrich,...

I hate to be negative, but I doubt anything gets done. I really hope we dont trade Bibby for Heinrich. Its really not worth it. Andre Miller maybe a possibility, but it would make us a little less of a threat on the perimeter. Still, it would be a great upgrade. but I doubt we can get Felton. Denver was asking for a lot for Carmelo. I bet Felton was the main selling point for pulling the trigger on that trade. It would take a lot to get him away from Denver.

theatlfan wrote:His per-36's are similar to Bibby's, but he plays on a worse team and has a higher usage (by a decent amount of a little over 2%). Considering Bibby's TS% is about 2.5 basis points above Hinrich's, I'd assume that Hinrich's #'s would fall a little below Bibby's on a better team since he'd have a corresponding drop in Usage.

The problem is that there are 2 Mike Bibby's: the guy who jogs onto the court at the beginning of the game and the one who stumbles in at the beginning of the 4th qtr. The 1st guy is limited but useful, especially offensively. The 2nd guy has lead shoes he can't take off. Hinrich is a little better (because of defense) than the 1st Bibby but he's miles ahead of the 2nd Bibby.

We don't need to get rid of Bibby - at the present - but we need someone good enough to keep Bibby on the bench. 15-20 minutes a game from Bibby would be nice.

Hinrich is way better than Bibby.The guy can play both guard spots and is taller,plays better defense,and provides what Bibby can do all in one..Make the move happen and find a way for Yi & Cartier Martin, then get Sessions and Ryan Hollins..Looks like garbage but maybe turns into something with Atlanta

BUT since his +/- is also similar (Can't find the +/- numbers immediately - too lazy or tired right now - but I'll take you at your word that they are also similar) for a team that is worse, then I'd assume that Hinrich is making up for this difference a little on the defensive end.

No...I think you missed my point. Hinrich's plus/minus numbers(along with PER and per 36 numbers) are similar to Teague's....which is terrible. Bibby is obviously better than both.

Apparently they are going to get Hinrich. I don't see how this helps them.

geez...isn't it really that hard to realize we need SIZE. More than likely we will be matched up vs the Magic again in the playoffs

They need scoring more than anything. The reason they got humiliated vs Orlando was because a-they quit and b-they couldn't score(the same for all their playoff series).