Who's Gone This summer? JC or J-smooth

[general]

It seems If we Trade Josh we can get a decent Center and move Horford to his natural position PF where it seems He's a Beast at. Or Do we trade 6th man Jamal considering I dont think ATL has enough money to keep Him anyway if no moves are made...

[Harry10]

geez, these Josh for a center post have been going on for like 4 years now......

[Geaux_Hawks]

We trade Josh and get a legit Center,move Horford to the 4, where he is supposedly a beast at and have no shot blocker. Unless we get Bogut,Dwight, or Al Jefferson, then the only thing we will get out of moving Horford to the 4 and trading Josh is weaker interior D, 4 more points from Al, and no shot blocker.I would rather trade Marvin&Zaza for Oden,Darko,Al Jefferson,Jason Thompson, Robin or Brook Lopez and even try to accumulate something for Bogut.Josh and Al compliment each other very well, so why trade one of them.

Thats like telling Dallas to get rid of Dirk or Chandler or LA parting with Lamar & Gasol.One guy is better offensively(Al,Dirk,Odom); the other is better defensively(Josh,Chandler,Pau).

[myrak433]

I don't think we should trade Josh unless it is a no-brainer. like Dwight Howard, Derrick Rose, Dirk Nowitzki, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant. you get the picture those teams would never deal any of those guys for Josh but it would take something like one of those guys to get Atlanta to listen. so the best thing is to just shop Marvin, Zaza, Teague, or even Jamal Crawford for a good Center. in the line of Kaman, Bogut, Brendan Haywood, Nene, Dalembert, or even Andrea Bargnani. anyone of these guys would be a huge upgrade at the 5 spot for us. we may even be able to get two of them. Something like Haywood and Bargnani would be Ideal.

[CALPURNIA]

Of course the ideal situation would be keeping both and get a center, now that we have a real PG.
If that is not possible, as true mid-level centers are difficult to get (and also our staff seems uncapable of getting a 7 footer anywhere, while other teams have two on their benches), the only way would be through a trade.
Smith is blocking less and less shots because he is getting confortable by the moment. He does not work as he used to (although he has much more quality than before) and he is not adding enough different things to count on him as a really different profile that the one we find already in Horford.

There is a true in life and that is that, BY DOING THE SAME, THE SAME YOU WILL GET. I mean, either we risk trading Josh for Kaman or somebody like him or we will be getting that 4th-5th spot in the EC for 4/5 more years and then, Josh and Horford and others will diminish their outputs and we will reconstructing after a decade of... not going further than a second round.

Of course there is a risk in doing so, and may be the results will not be what we expect.
But it would be much better traying and failing than waiting and see this year after year.

I transaction that could land a center and the possibility of resigning Jamaal would be great. A transaction in which we get a center and a 2 guard and we forget about Jamaal would be a little worser, but it would do.

[myrak433]

Of course the ideal situation would be kkeping both and get a center, now we have a real PG.
If that is not possible, as true mid-level centers are difficult to get (and also our staff seems uncapable of getting a 7 footer anywhere, while other teams have two on their benches), the only way would be through a trade.
Smith is blocking less and less shots because he is getting confortable by the moment. He does not work as he used to, although he has much more quality than before.

There is a true in life and that is that, BY DOING THE SAME, THE SAME YOU WILL GET. I mean, either we riskn trading Josh for

I don't understand what you are trying to say

[evildallas]

If you have a legit center you don't trade him for a PF/SF. You could trade for a project C, a injury prone C, or a washed up C. There is a long shot that you could trade for a star C who is a danger to walk for nothing, but it would cost a lot more and require that star C to want to come here.

Look around the try to figure out which Center are realistic to acquire with Josh Smith and then decide whether it makes the team better. Once you do an exercise like that you'll stop posting such unlikely dream scenarios.

To the title question I believe Crawford is gone unless the team progress in the playoffs further than before and he takes a sizable cut. Crawford possesses an important skill (ability to create his own shot) that is amplified by the makeup of our bench, but it isn't irreplaceable. You can find other players that fill the role maybe not as well, but at a fraction of the price (remember Flip Murray). Overpaying that skill set (like Ben Gordon) doesn't keep you competitive.

A bigger question might be whether they're both gone, Crawford allowed to walk and Smith traded for a project big and a replacement scorer. I can't really come up with an example of that because the teams with developing bigs don't exactly have needs that Josh would fill. The best example would be a draft night trade for the rights to Enes Kanter and contract filler/role players depending on where he goes. The other idea would be invest a 2nd rounder in Renardo Sidney and hope he doesn't meltdown. He's only 6'10 but weighs 275 and has post skills, but he's a problem child to say the least.

[djjob23]

I think trading Marvin for a mediocre Center that can give us 20 minutes would solve a lot of problems, but is hard to find a partner for that kind of transaction. If we had that kind of 7' Center, then I don't see why we can have Horford splitting the minutes. He's an All-Star at both positions, that's value you cannot forget.

[tncnz]

Can whoever it is take the Atlanta Spirit with them?

[CALPURNIA]

I believe we have to add by substraction.
Trading Josh would allow Al to play the 4 full time and Powell is a great replacement both at the 4 and at the 5 spot (only that LD has not seen it yet).
Al plays better (much better) at the 4 and also, knowing that he will be a 4 full time would allow him to trim down still a little bit more. He would still be stronger and taller than most 4s.

I really believe that getting a center and playing Al at the 4 improves the team. Or, at least, he gives us a most clasical approach to other teams that destroy us in inside scoring.

Of course I would prefer trading Williams or getting as decent free agent center, but that seems unrealistic.

Another different thing is deciding if it is worth it to get a center at that cost (Josh) and provide LD with that kind of team. He does not know/he does not care/he cannot get his players to pass the ball inside, play set plays, moving the ball around with a sense... so, why bothering about all this when it will be probably useless?

I will always say that I do not understand spending 120 in JJ, 60? in Al, 60? in Josh and let a low-low profile coach run things. Especially, when he is running things that bad.

[Harry10]

I believe we have to add by substraction.
Trading Josh would allow Al to play the 4 full time and Powell is a great replacement both at the 4 and at the 5 spot (only that LD has not seen it yet).
Al plays better (much better) at the 4 and also, knowing that he will be a 4 full time would allow him to trim down still a little bit more. He would still be stronger and taller than most 4s.

I really believe that getting a center and playing Al at the 4 improves the team. Or, at least, he gives us a most clasical approach to other teams that destroy us in inside scoring.

Of course I would prefer trading Williams or getting as decent free agent center, but that seems unrealistic.

Another different thing is deciding if it is worth it to get a center at that cost (Josh) and provide LD with that kind of team. He does not know/he does not care/he cannot get his players to pass the ball inside, play set plays, moving the ball around with a sense... so, why bothering about all this when it will be probably useless?

I will always say that I do not understand spending 120 in JJ, 60? in Al, 60? in Josh and let a low-low profile coach run things. Especially, when he is running things that bad.

no, it would be subtraction by subtraction. like Geaux_Hawks said, even if you trade Josh for a legit 7 footer, the Hawks would get weaker on defense, because, besides Dwight, all of today's centers and 7 footers, suck on defense. all it would do is to get Al more points, but would allow the other team to get layups and dunks all game long.

[CALPURNIA]

Obviously I do not think that way.
I am sure we would be getting more lay-ups, but we need to diversify a lot our offense in order to win some games in which we easily run out of options. If jumpes are not falling, we are there tom lose by 20 as a minimun, as we have no other way of scoring. Running is a possibility, but we have problems getting our defensive rebounds.
As of Josh being a shot blocker, he is not anymore. Just look at his statistics. He used to block 3/4 shots a game. Now he blocks 1 or sometimes none. Playing good defense has nothing to do with blocking shots, as the Jazz can show anybody during the last 25 years, but having at least one or two centers that can do with centers usually do is mandatory to win. Just see the Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, Mavs. Just Miami does not have a serviceable center, but they have many other things.

The real thing is that we are stuck in that 4/5th seed for years to come and we will never dare to risk just in case it could get worse. I prefer taking that risk and seeing the results, as I am tired of watching the same thing season after season. We still need something more, although we improve some by getting Hinrich.
I do not think it is so strange to look for somebody that can carry out the work Zaza, Twin and Thomas do in that same player.

[Harry10]

Obviously I do not think that way.
I am sure we would be getting more lay-ups, but we need to diversify a lot our offense in order to win some games in which we easily run out of options. If jumpes are not falling, we are there tom lose by 20 as a minimun, as we have no other way of scoring. Running is a possibility, but we have problems getting our defensive rebounds.
As of Josh being a shot blocker, he is not anymore. Just look at his statistics. He used to block 3/4 shots a game. Now he blocks 1 or sometimes none. Playing good defense has nothing to do with blocking shots, as the Jazz can show anybody during the last 25 years, but having at least one or two centers that can do with centers usually do is mandatory to win. Just see the Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, Mavs. Just Miami does not have a serviceable center, but they have many other things.

The real thing is that we are stuck in that 4/5th seed for years to come and we will never dare to risk just in case it could get worse. I prefer taking that risk and seeing the results, as I am tired of watching the same thing season after season. We still need something more, although we improve some by getting Hinrich.
I do not think it is so strange to look for somebody that can carry out the work Zaza, Twin and Thomas do in that same player.

stats have nothing to do with shot blocking and being a presence for opponents. just having Josh, stand in the post makes opponents think twice about going inside.

[mr_grabb]

As much as I love Smith, I think he needs to go IF (and that's a big "if") this organization truly wants to compete for a title eventually. Not that Smith not a winner, but with the current roster situation and the fact that the organization appears to prefer Horford, I believe Atlanta's lineup needs to change. First of all, let me lay down the following assumptions and beliefs:

- We are not trading Joe Johnson, since it is simply impossible. He is here to stay.
- We are not trading Horford.
- Horford is better suited both defensively and offensively as a 4.
- We could trade Marvin, only his contract is acceptable and we would get half of what we perceive as his true value in return. So we might as well keep him.
- Josh is better suited both offensively and defensively as a 4. Not that he's terrible at the 3, but he's not a 3-pt shooter and is much more efficient as a interior defender.
- Unless he is willing to sign with a major discount, we are not bringing Jamal back.

You have the right to disagree with what i've just said. That's simply how I understand the situation.

Let's say we successfully trade Smith for a Center, allowing Horford to move to the 4. Someone on this board mentioned that is Smith gets traded that leaves us with poorer interior D and no shot blocker. Well, it all depends on who we trade Josh for. It is true, however, that we cannot put a exact value on the on-court chemistry that exists between the Josh and Al. Personally, I would be willing to sacrifice this element and take a slight step back for a year if that can allow us to reach higher grounds soon after.

Also, I really don't mind Marvin starting at the 3. He's an efficient, but not great, wing defender, and can spread the floor a bit better than Smith with his shooting. I was think about this trade scenario:

Trade Josh Smith for:

Marc Gasol (S&T) and O.J. Mayo, from Memphis.

Assuming Zach Randolph leaves via free agency for a bigger market, they will look to replace him. It is unclear to what extent the Grizzlies are enamored with Gasol, but I do not consider him out of reach. We should also remember that this franchise loved Smith when he was a RFA a couple of summers back. Gasol's strength is defense, which is what we are primarily looking for to move Al to the 4.

Another possibility would be Smith for:

Dalembert (S&T) and Omri Casspi, from Sacramento.

I like this option slightly less, since I'd rather bring a scorer off the bench to make up for the possible departure of Jamal. Casspi, however, is an able wing defender and an excellent long-range shooter.

Anyways. My point is that we need some semi-drastic changes in order to progress, and I don't feel it would be right, with the assets that we currently have, to sell everything and start back from scratches (a la Oklahoma City or Bulls, the traditional way). Again, if we need to regress momentarily for us to progress, then so be it.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Best bet for the Hawks to do is trade Marvin Zaza & a 2nd for one of the deals:

Bargnani alone

Beasley and Darko(would maybe need an extra draft pick or just get one of the two alone)

Cole Aldrich(maybe for Marvin straight up)

Robin Lopez(Maybe a future pick from PHX)

Al Jefferson(plus future 1st from Atlanta) or Mehmet Okur& Gordon Heyward

or

Jason Thompson and Casspi

I like all those deals and with some creativity,could happen

potential S&T for: Oden or Hawes

Look for a MLE

[Geaux_Hawks]

Just a thought but what about Yao maybe accepting a MLE?!?!?

[Ruhiel]

As much as I love Smith, I think he needs to go IF (and that's a big "if") this organization truly wants to compete for a title eventually. Not that Smith not a winner, but with the current roster situation and the fact that the organization appears to prefer Horford, I believe Atlanta's lineup needs to change. First of all, let me lay down the following assumptions and beliefs:

- We are not trading Joe Johnson, since it is simply impossible. He is here to stay.

You are the first one i've seen actually admit it JJ should have taken less and had a no trade clause ala Dirk for security

then started a campaign for Dwight

[Geaux_Hawks]

As much as I love Smith, I think he needs to go IF (and that's a big "if") this organization truly wants to compete for a title eventually. Not that Smith not a winner, but with the current roster situation and the fact that the organization appears to prefer Horford, I believe Atlanta's lineup needs to change. First of all, let me lay down the following assumptions and beliefs:

- We are not trading Joe Johnson, since it is simply impossible. He is here to stay.

You are the first one i've seen actually admit it JJ should have taken less and had a no trade clause ala Dirk for security

then started a campaign for Dwight

He could always just reconstruct his contract..LOL!

[Ruhiel]

As much as I love Smith, I think he needs to go IF (and that's a big "if") this organization truly wants to compete for a title eventually. Not that Smith not a winner, but with the current roster situation and the fact that the organization appears to prefer Horford, I believe Atlanta's lineup needs to change. First of all, let me lay down the following assumptions and beliefs:

- We are not trading Joe Johnson, since it is simply impossible. He is here to stay.

You are the first one i've seen actually admit it JJ should have taken less and had a no trade clause ala Dirk for security

then started a campaign for Dwight

He could always just reconstruct his contract..LOL!

u think he would

[Geaux_Hawks]

Unfortunately,no :/