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No more Larry Drew, so lets take Bill Laimbeer, who has won championship's as a coach(WNBA Detroit Shock 3x) & player(Detroit Pistons 2x)

I have no problem with Larry Drew. I have a problem with some of the players he has to work with, namely Joe and Jamal. Both of them are iso heavy players (Jamal more than Joe), and they kill our offensive flow. The only reason Crawford seemed fine last year was because he was making all of his shots. This year, he is not shooting very well, but continues to take a shot every time he touches the ball. It's hard to make an offense work when two of your main players are clearly not willing to buy into the new system.

Drew is bad IMO...but do you really think the ASG is going to pay two coaches simultaneously? He's a poor man's Mike Woodson(who I thought was mediocre at best)and his salary reflects that.

They both take those shots because they know the HC doesn't know what he is doing and can't control them or anybody else. The motion is built for non athletic teams that can shoot as a team and not individual shooters.The Hawks are built to run and jump.Iso Joe&Jamal are the only half-court offense we can produce.Horford lacks the ability to back down bigger guys,but is an amazing mid range guy.So LD should run ISO Joe and have Horford sitting around the free throw line ready for the Joe assist.

I don't he that bad, but I think if we get put out in the first round and Joe don't show up we should be actively trying to move him in the off season!

draycon530 wrote:I have no problem with Larry Drew. I have a problem with some of the players he has to work with, namely Joe and Jamal. Both of them are iso heavy players (Jamal more than Joe), and they kill our offensive flow. The only reason Crawford seemed fine last year was because he was making all of his shots. This year, he is not shooting very well, but continues to take a shot every time he touches the ball. It's hard to make an offense work when two of your main players are clearly not willing to buy into the new system.

People killed Woodson for his iso heavy offense despite the fact that it produced MUCH better results than the "Princeton Offense" we've seen this year. If you take a look at the rotation players in 2010...no one's PER has improved except Teague and Horford(the 2 players who would've improved regardless). Our amazing turnover rate is now average and our offensive rebounding is nonexistent due to the fact that our bigs are never in the paint anymore. Drew could have potentially caused the Hawks offense to go from 2nd to one of the worst if it wasn't how efficient Horford has been on jumpshots this year.

HoopsGuru25 wrote:People killed Woodson for his iso heavy offense despite the fact that it produced MUCH better results than the "Princeton Offense" we've seen this year. If you take a look at the rotation players in 2010...no one's PER has improved except Teague and Horford(the 2 players who would've improved regardless). Our amazing turnover rate is now average and our offensive rebounding is nonexistent due to the fact that our bigs are never in the paint anymore. Drew could have potentially caused the Hawks offense to go from 2nd to one of the worst if it wasn't how efficient Horford has been on jumpshots this year.

The only difference in Atlanta's scoring from last year to this year has been both Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford's combined ineffectiveness. Both are scoring roughly 3 ppg below what they did last year, and their field goal percentages are pretty terrible. Joe is only shooting 44% from the field and 29% from three while Crawford is only shooting 41% from field. While Johnson is sometimes willing to defer to his teammates when he is shooting poorly, Crawford never does. Their ineffective shooting has nothing to do with Larry Drew's offense, because I constantly watch them both miss wide open jump shots that were made possible off a designed play. And it really should be no surprise that the turnover rate is higher since we are passing considerably more. It's hard to turn the ball over when one person holds the ball for 15 seconds. While the turnover has definitely gone up, it is still in the top third in the league, and our assist rate has also gone up.

draycon530 wrote:

HoopsGuru25 wrote:People killed Woodson for his iso heavy offense despite the fact that it produced MUCH better results than the "Princeton Offense" we've seen this year. If you take a look at the rotation players in 2010...no one's PER has improved except Teague and Horford(the 2 players who would've improved regardless). Our amazing turnover rate is now average and our offensive rebounding is nonexistent due to the fact that our bigs are never in the paint anymore. Drew could have potentially caused the Hawks offense to go from 2nd to one of the worst if it wasn't how efficient Horford has been on jumpshots this year.

The only difference in Atlanta's scoring from last year to this year has been both Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford's combined ineffectiveness. Both are scoring roughly 3 ppg below what they did last year, and their field goal percentages are pretty terrible. Joe is only shooting 44% from the field and 29% from three while Crawford is only shooting 41% from field. While Johnson is sometimes willing to defer to his teammates when he is shooting poorly, Crawford never does. Their ineffective shooting has nothing to do with Larry Drew's offense, because I constantly watch them both miss wide open jump shots that were made possible off a designed play. And it really should be no surprise that the turnover rate is higher since we are passing considerably more. It's hard to turn the ball over when one person holds the ball for 15 seconds. While the turnover has definitely gone up, it is still in the top third in the league, and our assist rate has also gone up.

I would be willing to bet that Drew's "Motion Offense" is the reason why or even his inability to use Joe to his strength and playing Jamal at the wrong time.

Geaux_Hawks wrote:I would be willing to bet that Drew's "Motion Offense" is the reason why or even his inability to use Joe to his strength and playing Jamal at the wrong time.

So if I am understanding what you're saying, you're basing your statement on guesses as opposed to things you've actually seen. Larry Drew's offense is quite good at getting Joe and Jamal open looks. Neither of them are making any shots this year. Joe's strengths are supposed to be jump shooting, and overpowering his defender into the lane to get easy shots. He's missing his jumpshots, and when he gets the ball with a defender on him, he'll just stand there for 10 seconds and then take a jumper over his defender. Jamal's strength is taking people off the dribble. While he's getting the shots he wants, which aren't necessarily the best shots all the time, he's not hitting them nearly as often as he used to.

draycon530 wrote:

HoopsGuru25 wrote:People killed Woodson for his iso heavy offense despite the fact that it produced MUCH better results than the "Princeton Offense" we've seen this year. If you take a look at the rotation players in 2010...no one's PER has improved except Teague and Horford(the 2 players who would've improved regardless). Our amazing turnover rate is now average and our offensive rebounding is nonexistent due to the fact that our bigs are never in the paint anymore. Drew could have potentially caused the Hawks offense to go from 2nd to one of the worst if it wasn't how efficient Horford has been on jumpshots this year.

The only difference in Atlanta's scoring from last year to this year has been both Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford's combined ineffectiveness. Both are scoring roughly 3 ppg below what they did last year, and their field goal percentages are pretty terrible. Joe is only shooting 44% from the field and 29% from three while Crawford is only shooting 41% from field. While Johnson is sometimes willing to defer to his teammates when he is shooting poorly, Crawford never does. Their ineffective shooting has nothing to do with Larry Drew's offense, because I constantly watch them both miss wide open jump shots that were made possible off a designed play. And it really should be no surprise that the turnover rate is higher since we are passing considerably more. It's hard to turn the ball over when one person holds the ball for 15 seconds. While the turnover has definitely gone up, it is still in the top third in the league, and our assist rate has also gone up.

No disrespect but this is flawed rebuttal. The Hawks true shooting percentage is 14th in the league which is the exact same as it was in 2009. Joe and Crawford have shot worse but that's been offset by the fact that Horford,Bibby,and Teague have been more efficient.

The two areas where the Hawks have fallen off a cliff are painfully obvious to see. The Hawks went from 1st(by a HUGE margin)to 17th in turnover rate and from 4th to 24th in offensive rebound rate. Those extra possessions the Hawks got in 2010 simply aren't there with Larry Drew.

Also...the Hawks assist rate has gone up from 7th to 4th. That's not a big increase and could easily be explained by the fact that the Hawks aren't getting as many 2nd chance points as they were last year.

Drew has frustrated me with his lack of development of the PG position but it's way too early to judge his work. He deserves the 2 years we've signed him for.

Doesn't mean we can't criticize him; it just means we don't know what we have in him yet.

Most of the time, Drew's offense doesn't get Jamal and Joe open shots , neither does it even pass the ball like a true "Princeton Style Motion Offense",but forces them into ISO modes.Joe needs to go into ISO only when he has a guard to abuse.

This isn't the offense for this team anyway because they don't have the shooters for it.I never got the reason for him even trying to run this offense from the start, because it is built for teams that have no athletes,but can shoot high percentage from outside and are moving.If everyone is stagnant,which is always happening, then that means no one is cutting towards the basket,no one is setting screens,so there is no open shots or easy lay ins.You can't rely on Joe and Jamal to carry the offense with their jump shooting alone in a motion offense.

Firing the coach = reshuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic

Can we stop pretending that we still run the motion offense? We abandoned the motion like a month into the season, even though at that time we were offensively great.

I think we still try to run the motion offense at times each game. We just get sidetracked.

Joe does less of the isolations but Jamal seems to be nothing but.

Don't forget: we have a new PG. He still doesn't know the offense and won't for at least a month. I remember Drew complaining about the time it was taking our guys to learn the offense last summer -- and that was in training camp when they practiced for hours. Nowadays, Hinrich has to play an opponent while learning the offense.

I think you might want to table the new head coach thread until after the new owner thread. I wouldn't hold my breath for an upgrade until after a new CBA and until Drew's contract expires or we have new ownership.

My only problem with Drew is the same concern that I had when he was hired. He's been around for years and there is no guarantee that the players will listen to him and fully commit to what he wants to run. I think we can see that happening.