Hawks Off-Season Plan Version 3.0

[Harry10]

Trade Joe for Billups (or Jason Terry, or Okur)

Tank in 2012 and draft Kendall Marshall (or Lucas Nogueira)

Offer Dwight max

Dwight/Zaza
Horford/TBA
Smoove/TBA
Marvin/Wilkins
Teague/Marshall

[myrak433]

GOOD FANTASY. We wouldn't be able to tank that much with Josh, Horford still on this team. and the last few years teams that have won do so by getting free agents, not High draft picks. we need the big three in the A

T mac
Redd
Joe Johnson

[theatlfan]

Not exactly sure why the "move Marvin to SG" thing has taken hold here. He's too inconsistent as a shooter to fit well there. I'd prefer to use him (and Wilkins) as backups @ the 3 (and give Smoove minutes backing up Horford @ the 4) than to attempt Marvin @ the 2. It'd be easy enough to get an OK starter though so it doesn't really break anything you've got here.

As for the rest, I'm @ the whatever stage now. I don't think we're ready to trade JJ. He's had an injury marred season in which he had elbow surgery. If anything, I'd think our FO is thinking he had his best year yet coming back from surgery early, dealing with a new coach, and still keeping the team from regressing from last year. Regardless of the fact that I think he could land a useful expiring + an asset or 2 still, I don't see it in the plans of Sund to do anything like that.

[Ruhiel]

Not exactly sure why the "move Marvin to SG" thing has taken hold here. He's too inconsistent as a shooter to fit well there. I'd prefer to use him (and Wilkins) as backups @ the 3 (and give Smoove minutes backing up Horford @ the 4) than to attempt Marvin @ the 2. It'd be easy enough to get an OK starter though so it doesn't really break anything you've got here.

As for the rest, I'm @ the whatever stage now. I don't think we're ready to trade JJ. He's had an injury marred season in which he had elbow surgery. If anything, I'd think our FO is thinking he had his best year yet coming back from surgery early, dealing with a new coach, and still keeping the team from regressing from last year. Regardless of the fact that I think he could land a useful expiring + an asset or 2 still, I don't see it in the plans of Sund to do anything like that.

Had the Hawks let Joe go, we would have been able to showcase Marvin with more opportunities. If anything Marvin still is responsible for playing the best wings to keep Joe out of foul trouble and is better at sealing off his man (His wingspan is 7'0.75 versus Joe's 6'9)

Marvin would have been more tradeable, maybe he breaks out and scores near 20 per game at SG. Maybe he is up and down like Beasley, The team may have taken less wins against the elite teams but at least we would have had more trade value.

We would have relied on more team play for wins. We might have taken a step back because everyone would have "new" positions. But it's still the same plays and when we did win the praise is spread on all players increasing trade value in eyes of other teams.
Our assets would have been: Josh, Horford, Marvin, Crawford expiring, Pachulia

now Marvin and Pachulia are untradeable and we have to build around Joe who can shoot but can't draw superstar calls/fouls and is virtually untradeable. This means Smoove will most likely be traded for a lesser player.
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Bottomline is Hawks management pigeonholed the roster and instead of a lineup where they could have had a high quality center, PG, and a defending 6th Man of the year they overrelied in Joe. Fans are now stuck with a roster that earns the owners money but is a .500 team, losing to elite teams and showing courage against bottom-feeding teams.

Hawks could have Easily replaced Joe's production via committee

[Geaux_Hawks]

Not exactly sure why the "move Marvin to SG" thing has taken hold here. He's too inconsistent as a shooter to fit well there. I'd prefer to use him (and Wilkins) as backups @ the 3 (and give Smoove minutes backing up Horford @ the 4) than to attempt Marvin @ the 2. It'd be easy enough to get an OK starter though so it doesn't really break anything you've got here.

As for the rest, I'm @ the whatever stage now. I don't think we're ready to trade JJ. He's had an injury marred season in which he had elbow surgery. If anything, I'd think our FO is thinking he had his best year yet coming back from surgery early, dealing with a new coach, and still keeping the team from regressing from last year. Regardless of the fact that I think he could land a useful expiring + an asset or 2 still, I don't see it in the plans of Sund to do anything like that.

Had the Hawks let Joe go, we would have been able to showcase Marvin with more opportunities. If anything Marvin still is responsible for playing the best wings to keep Joe out of foul trouble and is better at sealing off his man (His wingspan is 7'0.75 versus Joe's 6'9)

Marvin would have been more tradeable, maybe he breaks out and scores near 20 per game at SG. Maybe he is up and down like Beasley, The team may have taken less wins against the elite teams but at least we would have had more trade value.

We would have relied on more team play for wins. We might have taken a step back because everyone would have "new" positions. But it's still the same plays and when we did win the praise is spread on all players increasing trade value in eyes of other teams.
Our assets would have been: Josh, Horford, Marvin, Crawford expiring, Pachulia

now Marvin and Pachulia are untradeable and we have to build around Joe who can shoot but can't draw superstar calls/fouls and is virtually untradeable. This means Smoove will most likely be traded for a lesser player.

A game like today, are games we need from Marvin to sell him. I doubt he is un-tradeable, especially with a 30 point game where he went 3-5 from 3. The only thing playing Marvin at the 2 is that he will employ what Joe does at 2 guard and that is post up the smaller 2's, but won't shoot like Joe does unless open(Horford style) or make difficult drives to the basket shots.

[Geaux_Hawks]

GOOD FANTASY. We wouldn't be able to tank that much with Josh, Horford still on this team. and the last few years teams that have won do so by getting free agents, not High draft picks. we need the big three in the A

T mac
Redd
Joe Johnson

Calling that a Big 3 is crazy.All 3 are 2 guards that can play the 3, with T Mac being the guy who could probably run the point decently, but i don't start him on a nightly basis. I'm for bringing in T Mac as a bench guy and maybe Redd if he is willing to accept "Vet Min" money.

As far as off-season moves, I keep saying these same names. First move should be, trade Marv & Zaza for Jordan Hill & Chase Budinger. Then sign Oden to a 3 year 21 Mill offer sheet. Give Memphis a first for Mayo(disgruntled situation, so MEM is ready to part ways). Sign Josh McRoberts & T Mac and re-sign Damien Wilkins. Draft Keith Benson or Tyler Zeller(if he comes out). Trade Josh Smith for Monta Ellis type deal(optional).If you trade for Ellis, then a Hinrich trade could be worked out somewhere or we include Hinrich in the Mayo deal instead of a first.

[Harry10]

Not exactly sure why the "move Marvin to SG" thing has taken hold here. He's too inconsistent as a shooter to fit well there. I'd prefer to use him (and Wilkins) as backups @ the 3 (and give Smoove minutes backing up Horford @ the 4) than to attempt Marvin @ the 2. It'd be easy enough to get an OK starter though so it doesn't really break anything you've got here.

As for the rest, I'm @ the whatever stage now. I don't think we're ready to trade JJ. He's had an injury marred season in which he had elbow surgery. If anything, I'd think our FO is thinking he had his best year yet coming back from surgery early, dealing with a new coach, and still keeping the team from regressing from last year. Regardless of the fact that I think he could land a useful expiring + an asset or 2 still, I don't see it in the plans of Sund to do anything like that.

the who Marvin as a SF thing has been going on for 5 years now and the experiment hasn't been working. even the biggest Joe supporters will have to admit that Marvin plays better when Joe is not in the game. coming out of the draft, all Hawks fans hoped that Marvin would be the next Melo, but he hasn't. what is great about Marvin is that he is the total oposit of Joe, he is not ball dominate and can get to the free throw line. Marvin doesn't have the ball handles that Joe (Wade or Kobe) has, but so what, because Marvin's handles are on par with the other SGs in the leauge, like Nick Young, Ray Allen, Wesley Matthews, JRich, Kevin Martin, etc.

i know Joe has been hurt, but even if he gets better and goes back to his 2006 form, he still isn't that good, and definatly not good enough to make a team into a contender, because he is still dominating the ball and not getting to the foul line.

[Ruhiel]

Trade Joe for Billups (or Jason Terry, or Okur)

obviously for clearing 2012 space, Hawks would love a big crafty guard like Billups. Mr. Big Shot

Tank in 2012 and draft Kendall Marshall (or Lucas Nogueira)

I'm not sure tanking should be the goal. Tank for a backup guard?
--
Assuming we Traded Joe for Billups:

Where does "Hinrich's" $8M go?

I'd like Tayshaun Prince for SF vs Wilkins, that way we can have Smoove/Tayshaun as 6th man ala Lakers LO and go 2 deep at each position.

<Dwight max*>/Zaza/Armstrong
Horford/[Ike Diogu
Smoove/Damien Wilkins
Marvin/Al Thornton
Billups/Teague

changes
+Al Thornton $295,040 >>> -Wilkins $225,785
+Ike Diogu $136,583: a Dejuan Blair type, F-C]
SF backup: <<need improvement, Earl Clark? Tayshaun?

[azuresou1]

Marvin's handles are no where close to Nick Young's handles, or Ray Allen or J-Rich's, even now when they're complementary guys. Marvin cannot be predominantly a SG because that means only one guy on our team would be able to take someone off the dribble - whoever is at SG.

But this is moot because we'd never get Chauncey for JJ.

[Ruhiel]

Marvin's handles are no where close to Nick Young's handles, or Ray Allen or J-Rich's, even now when they're complementary guys. Marvin cannot be predominantly a SG because that means only one guy on our team would be able to take someone off the dribble - whoever is at SG.

But this is moot because we'd never get Chauncey for JJ.

Why is everyone so obsessed with "handles". If JJ could elevate and shoot or post up and get fouled he wouldn't waste so much time "handling the ball" getting off a shot. You say Marvin can't be a SG but he just played SG and got into a rhythm dropping 31 and against the Celtics at SG he dropped 26 on Ray Allen who also doesn't spend as much time "handling" the ball as JJ.
Marvin himself says SG and SF are basically the same position in the offense.
Joe iso dribbles because he can't score inside moving within the flow of the offense. We just saw Marv drop 30 on a physical 6'6 SG. Unlike Joe he can gather the ball in the paint and seal and get fouled. In majority of fan's opinions Marvin can't play SG against elite SGs. Truth is Joe can't play SG against elite team defenses himself. See the last 2 Orlando/Cleveland series. The way to beat Orlando is to get Dwight in foul trouble (Joe's "handles" can't allow him to do this) and beat them with depth (with salary is nearly impossible).
---
I think we could get Billups for JJ if NY thinks Douglas should start and thinks they need a SG upgrade over Landry. If fans campaigned for Dwight to come to Atlanta or got word to media it easily spreads like wildfire. Pipe dream unless NY is desperate bcuz JJ is becoming an albatross.

Even if we trade JJ to Dallas we should target Billups to run PG with a core of Horford, Williams, and Smith. That would be a big 4 even without the PG I think a Jason Terry would be good enough to run the PG if the team were:
Dwight surrounded by shooters Horford/Marv/Smith/PG smells like a championship starting 5. Without Hinrich and JC also have enough salary to sign a quality bench.

[Harry10]

Marvin's handles are no where close to Nick Young's handles, or Ray Allen or J-Rich's, even now when they're complementary guys. Marvin cannot be predominantly a SG because that means only one guy on our team would be able to take someone off the dribble - whoever is at SG.

But this is moot because we'd never get Chauncey for JJ.

Why is everyone so obsessed with "handles". If JJ could elevate and shoot or post up and get fouled he wouldn't waste so much time "handling the ball" getting off a shot. You say Marvin can't be a SG but he just played SG and got into a rhythm dropping 31 and against the Celtics at SG he dropped 26 on Ray Allen who also doesn't spend as much time "handling" the ball as JJ.
Marvin himself says SG and SF are basically the same position in the offense.
Joe iso dribbles because he can't score inside moving within the flow of the offense. We just saw Marv drop 30 on a physical 6'6 SG. Unlike Joe he can gather the ball in the paint and seal and get fouled. In majority of fan's opinions Marvin can't play SG against elite SGs. Truth is Joe can't play SG against elite team defenses himself. See the last 2 Orlando/Cleveland series. The way to beat Orlando is to get Dwight in foul trouble (Joe's "handles" can't allow him to do this) and beat them with depth (with salary is nearly impossible).
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I think we could get Billups for JJ if NY thinks Douglas should start and thinks they need a SG upgrade over Landry. If fans campaigned for Dwight to come to Atlanta or got word to media it easily spreads like wildfire. Pipe dream unless NY is desperate bcuz JJ is becoming an albatross.

Even if we trade JJ to Dallas we should target Billups to run PG with a core of Horford, Williams, and Smith. That would be a big 4 even without the PG I think a Jason Terry would be good enough to run the PG if the team were:
Dwight surrounded by shooters Horford/Marv/Smith/PG smells like a championship starting 5. Without Hinrich and JC also have enough salary to sign a quality bench.

True.... and with or without Joe, the fan attendance for the Hawks still sucks, atleast if the Hawks made an effort or have a small chance at Dwight, Deron, or CP, their is still a shot at Atlanta getting excited about basketball. even at worst case, the fan attendance now and fan attendance 3 years from now, without Joe, or Dwight, would be exactly the same.... so the franchise has nothing to lose.

[myrak433]

if the Hawks were to trade JJ for that bullchit you guys are talking about I would never watch another Hawks game, unless they were playing my new team I would be a fan of. I will not go through another rebuilding.

[myrak433]

GOOD FANTASY. We wouldn't be able to tank that much with Josh, Horford still on this team. and the last few years teams that have won do so by getting free agents, not High draft picks. we need the big three in the A

T mac
Redd
Joe Johnson

Calling that a Big 3 is crazy.All 3 are 2 guards that can play the 3, with T Mac being the guy who could probably run the point decently, but i don't start him on a nightly basis. I'm for bringing in T Mac as a bench guy and maybe Redd if he is willing to accept "Vet Min" money.

As far as off-season moves, I keep saying these same names. First move should be, trade Marv & Zaza for Jordan Hill & Chase Budinger. Then sign Oden to a 3 year 21 Mill offer sheet. Give Memphis a first for Mayo(disgruntled situation, so MEM is ready to part ways). Sign Josh McRoberts & T Mac and re-sign Damien Wilkins. Draft Keith Benson or Tyler Zeller(if he comes out). Trade Josh Smith for Monta Ellis type deal(optional).If you trade for Ellis, then a Hinrich trade could be worked out somewhere or we include Hinrich in the Mayo deal instead of a first.

All three can play the 1, 2, and the 3.

[azuresou1]

If our "Big 3" were JJ, Redd, and T-Mac, it would be a really easy breakup for me.

[Ruhiel]

if the Hawks were to trade JJ for that bullchit you guys are talking about I would never watch another Hawks game, unless they were playing my new team I would be a fan of. I will not go through another rebuilding.

1 year of Billups followed by Dwight, Horford, Williams, and Smith, passing and cutting versus iso ball is bullchit.

1st/2nd round playoff exits year in and year out, people saying this'll be the year until everyone is old is the definition of BS. You are lying to yourself if you honestly think Joe Johnson or Michael Redd can efficiently play the share shots and play adequate defense against legit competition in the East. It's like you work for the Hawks FO and are trying to replace 1 jump shooting team with soft defense with a softer defensive team with more jump shooters.

McGrady is averaging 8 points in 24 minutes a game and you want to rely on him to be a starting point guard/shooting guard/small forward. I'd rather have him off the bench there is no way him and Michael Redd can make it through the regular season and playoffs.

Also did you think how small that team's window of opportunity is?
----
And to the OP getting a rookie point guard would be the least thing we should worry about. If we were successful in trading Joe for expirings. For 1 year we'd be a .500 team just based off of talent and in 2012 we would have only $40 million commited to 5 players, SG/SF/PF being starter material and 2 backups in Teague and Pachulia have the ability to sign:

Dwight + Nash/Nelson/Miller/Chris Paul/Billups/Deron Williams

So tanking would decrease team morale, chemistry, and marketability and be pointless in the end.
Also Teague needs next year to prove his worth as a star/starter/backup at running an offense. It would be scary for opposing teams to have Chris Paul mentoring a Teague/Lawson type player.
---
With and without JJ we are a .500 team but In 1 year there is no doubt we could be better than the Heat, Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics if a team like NYK/DAL gives us cap relief for Johnson.

[Ruhiel]

:star PG:/Marvin Williams/Josh Smith*/Al Horford/Dwight Howard*
Jeff Teague/:big wing:/Al Thornton/Ike Diogu/Zaza Pachulia

come on home Dwight


:star PG:
Billups, Miller, Nash, Nelson, ★Paul, ★Williams
:big wing:
McGrady, Grant Hill, Michael Redd??

[myrak433]

if the Hawks were to trade JJ for that bullchit you guys are talking about I would never watch another Hawks game, unless they were playing my new team I would be a fan of. I will not go through another rebuilding.

1 year of Billups followed by Dwight, Horford, Williams, and Smith, passing and cutting versus iso ball is bullchit.

1st/2nd round playoff exits year in and year out, people saying this'll be the year until everyone is old is the definition of BS. You are lying to yourself if you honestly think Joe Johnson or Michael Redd can efficiently play the share shots and play adequate defense against legit competition in the East. It's like you work for the Hawks FO and are trying to replace 1 jump shooting team with soft defense with a softer defensive team with more jump shooters.

McGrady is averaging 8 points in 24 minutes a game and you want to rely on him to be a starting point guard/shooting guard/small forward. I'd rather have him off the bench there is no way him and Michael Redd can make it through the regular season and playoffs.

Also did you think how small that team's window of opportunity is?
----
And to the OP getting a rookie point guard would be the least thing we should worry about. If we were successful in trading Joe for expirings. For 1 year we'd be a .500 team just based off of talent and in 2012 we would have only $40 million commited to 5 players, SG/SF/PF being starter material and 2 backups in Teague and Pachulia have the ability to sign:

Dwight + Nash/Nelson/Miller/Chris Paul/Billups/Deron Williams

So tanking would decrease team morale, chemistry, and marketability and be pointless in the end.
Also Teague needs next year to prove his worth as a star/starter/backup at running an offense. It would be scary for opposing teams to have Chris Paul mentoring a Teague/Lawson type player.
---
With and without JJ we are a .500 team but In 1 year there is no doubt we could be better than the Heat, Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics if a team like NYK/DAL gives us cap relief for Johnson.

If we could get Nash and Dwight Howard I am all for it I wouldn't care who leaves, but I don't see how on GOD's green earth we would be able to get D12, and if we did get D12 in 2012 would Nash still be able to play at all star level? All I am saying is getting Redd and Tmac would not affect anything in the future going forward, if it did work great. if it didn't it wouldn't matter because we would still have JJ,Smoove, Horford,Marvin, and Kirk.

[Ruhiel]

if the Hawks were to trade JJ for that bullchit you guys are talking about I would never watch another Hawks game, unless they were playing my new team I would be a fan of. I will not go through another rebuilding.

1st/2nd round playoff exits year in and year out, people saying this'll be the year until everyone is old is the definition of BS. ....getting a rookie point guard would be the least thing we should worry about. If we were successful in trading Joe for expirings. For 1 year we'd be a .500 team just based off of talent and in 2012 we would have only $40 million commited to 5 players, SG/SF/PF being starter material and 2 backups in Teague and Pachulia have the ability to sign:

Dwight + Nash/Nelson/Miller/Chris Paul/Billups/Deron Williams

So tanking would decrease team morale, chemistry, and marketability and be pointless in the end.
Also Teague needs next year to prove his worth as a star/starter/backup at running an offense. It would be scary for opposing teams to have Chris Paul mentoring a Teague/Lawson type player.
---
With and without JJ we are a .500 team but In 1 year there is no doubt we could be better than the Heat, Knicks, Bulls, and Celtics if a team like NYK/DAL gives us cap relief for Johnson.

If we could get Nash and Dwight Howard I am all for it I wouldn't care who leaves, but I don't see how on GOD's green earth we would be able to get D12,

Strong Community Ties
wiki- Dwight Howard was born in Atlanta, Georgia to Dwight Sr. and Sheryl Howard and into a family with strong athletic connections. His father is a Georgia State Trooper and serves as Athletic Director of Southwest Atlanta Christian Academy, a private academy with one of the best high school basketball programs in the country, while his mother played on the inaugural women's basketball team at Morris Brown College. As a senior, Howard led his team to the 2004 GEORGIA state title. That same year, Howard was widely recognized as the best American high school basketball player, and was awarded the Naismith Prep POY Award, the Morgan Wootten HSPOY Award, Gatorade NPOY and the McDonald's NPOY honor. He was also co-MVP (with J. R. Smith) of the McDonald's High School All-American Game that year.
BFF Josh Smith
The two of them won’t seem overly chummy out on the court before or during tonight’s Orlando Magic game in Atlanta. But Magic center Dwight Howard and Atlanta forward Josh Smith have a history that goes back a long way. It goes all the way back to a pre-school class in Atlanta more than 20 years ago, when Smith says the two of them had a crush on the same girl. (For the record, Howard doesn’t remember the girl) They played against each other growing up and reunited on the same AAU team, the Atlanta Celtics, as teenagers.
And if you ever insult one in the presence of the other, you’ll see that history bubble up.
“I just remember sitting in the draft in the green room and one of the guys said [Smith] was going to be the biggest bust ever,” Howard said. “I kind of got upset about it because I know my homeboy can play basketball. Just to see him grow from that moment on it means a lot to me. Growing up together, playing with each other AAU, we’ve always talked about going to the NBA and trying to be one of the best players to play the game of basketball.”
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Bottom Line
Dwight is from the state of Georgia, more specifically which seems like a southeastern version of New York. Lots of factories and stores and hyperconsumerist atmosphere with of course marketing area. With salary cap and emotional ties and friendship (ala "Big 3" in MIA) we would definitely be one of the major teams in play for Dwight Howard. All we have to do, like Miami and New York, is make way for him. Orlando has too many toxic contracts to get him a PG, SF, and PF they need. If Arenas returns to form though Dwight might not want to leave his second home.

and if we did get D12 in 2012 would Nash still be able to play at all star level

He plays 32mpg as is, just like the rumors with Dwight doubting Kobe's age window, I doubt D12 would want to play with Nash. Nash worked wonders with the pick and pop but Dwight is a different player. I'd rather have Chris Paul who can run the pick and roll, work the switch and find Dwight on the mismatch for the lob everytime. Even with Jameer Nelson it would work out great. We'd basically be Orlando with Josh replacing Hedo on leak outs and in the paint and people like the Heat would have to put Wade on either Marvin or Josh Smith.
Even then Dwight alone has dominated the Heat, Knicks, and Bull's interior. With CP3 or Deron it's all but a wrap to make the ECF year in year out. The team would be more focused and more confident in saying that's this is the definite goal and we are not undersized anymore no excuses, lets play off our bigs and knock down shots and get out and run when Dwight and Josh average 4 blocks a game .

All I am saying is getting Redd and Tmac would not affect anything in the future going forward, if it did work great. if it didn't it wouldn't matter because we would still have JJ,Smoove, Horford,Marvin, and Kirk.

Like Orlando with Rashard/Arenas/Turkoglu, JJ handcuffs us from getting AS talent, in our case an AS center (only about 5 in the league) and an AS point guard. Also similar to the Nuggets with Melo, although Joe is not as good as Melo, Marvin, Smith, Horford and everyone else defers to Joe.

Also Marvin is just like Joe in that when a big player guards him his shot goes way down. Joe can shoot over little guards but Marvin gets fouled and sends them to the bench throwing off the other team's whole game plan. Even if we did miraculously get Chris Paul, it would be like playing with no pants. The baseline defense of Horford and Smith is not big enough.
Front Office Willingness to Win
Each year "Joe Johnson's team" loses his value goes down and this teams FO reputation goes down. Trading Joe Johnson would be the FO admitting they made many mistakes we need size and making a statement to others we are committed to winning and playing with energy and not undersized gimmick defenses and milking rosters for cash like the Suns are doing with Steve Nash.

[Geaux_Hawks]

If Joe wasn't set to make 20+ million while in his 30's, Joe could easily be moved for some small valuable pieces, but we are stuck with that contract and might as well accept that. Joe still can do some productive things once he gets over these few nagging injuries so with that said, we might as well use a guy like Marvin with Zaza and trade for some cheap lesser value, assets. That way we can go after a young Center this off-season.

Houston has Chase Budinger and Jordan Hill, Raptors have Bargnani, The Cavs got cap space, picks, & I would like to get Semih Erden, The Kings have Jason Thompson and Omri Casspi, I would do something with Beidrins & Dorell Wright in GS.

If we can deal with Houston, the Kings, or Cleveland, then we can go after a Gasol or Oden(More likely to happen) with Marvin and Zaza's money and still have whatever assets. If we get Bargs or Beans then, I think our front court would be upgraded by adding a new element (Bargs shooting or Beans PnR abilities),plus adding an actual 7 foot guy. They have some what defensive deficiencies, but we have great team defenders to help cover for both. I think people are quick to overlook or bash their post defense because they don't have help defenders or play on team's that play any defense.

The way I see it, we can either continue to believe in the pipe dreams of Dwight coming home(Very highly unlikely), signing CP3 or Deron(see Dwight) or we can make a patch on what we got this year, and hope it holds up until Joe has about 2 years or less on his contracts. Oden or Gasol won't be the sexiest move, but it can push us a lil bit farther than 1st and 2nd round "quick" exits(Swept). I would hate to blow up the team completely just because of Joe's contract and watch Josh or Horford kill us.

[Ruhiel]

I believe Joe Johnson was good for this team it showed this team how to win. But to win a team needs size and free throw attempts down the stretch.

@Geaux_Hawks Several things could happen here this offseason.
Hawks foresee the opportunity to grab a PG and Dwight the very next season due to Josh Smith's friendships and ties and:
A) trade Joe for the requisite expirings
B) The league thinks he's an albatross and say ixnay
C) say screw it and Hawks play Marvin just enough to trade him and or/Pachulia for players to win now and Dwight never comes
D) never explore the options and trade key players under contract in hopes to sell the team, they then said they attempted to trade Joe but teams said no. Then a realGM wiretap headline reads: Cuban/Walsh never heard from Hawks.


Just my opinion but my God if the Hawks pulled this off in a "small market" team. I would be ecstatic, It would be poetic justice if Hawks fans got a winner throughout this long rebuilding phase that started off with so much turmoil drafting and not tanking Horford's rookie year and then the bad signings. It would be the ultimate comeback.
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Also:
Hawks are 8 - 3 without joe johnson this year
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/sh ... p=17257786
"Are we better without joe? I believe we are. I believe marvin is a better player when he is not under joe shadow. Now im know fool im not trying to compare joe to marvin but the proof is in our record this year."
"i believe the hawks play better team ball without joe. i dont know about better. when joe shows his 07-08 version of himself once in a blue moon, were better with him. when he has nights like the one against kobe (i think 9 points) not so much. i'd much rather have a team like denver, deep with alot of good players, instead of any stars. "