Forget Dwight, Lets go for CP3

Geaux_Hawks · Post #1 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Fri Apr 1, 2011 6:13 am

A dominate "Big Man" can only take you so far and do so much. Same can be said about an "Elite PG", but a PG makes your team better by distributing to everyone.

Having a PG is equivalent to a QB in football. A QB can throw a 10 yard out route and the receiver can house it for 50 yards, just like a PG can throw a nice lob for an alley oop to athletic Wing or Big. He is the guy who can help your team the most without even scoring a point.

He can just do so much for you, like play D(steals), distribute(assists),get boards, if smart and quick enough(rebounds). He would be like a general on the battle field. An "Elite PG" will have guys in the right spot and running actual plays. He will just make everyone around him better.

Chris Paul is a Floor General, that took advantage of Tyson Chandlers athleticism, and made him look like an All Star. Imagine what him and Josh Smith can do together. Then have a floor spacer like Horford and Bargnani. Then have a great PnR guy like Biedrins. Paul would be in Heaven, as he wouldn't know what to do with the ball. I think we fill the roster out with Belinelli at the 2 guard, sign T Mac, Ersan ilyasova(Stretch 4, who can shoot like a 3 and play decent D), Hilton Armstrong(Tyson Chandler 2.0), Damien Wilkins, draft Tyler Zeller or Keith Benson(preferably Zeller or both), draft a 2012 SF or Big SG with a perimeter shot.

Win the title in 2013 or no later than 2014 with Chris Paul going for MVP with a similar 08-09 season

2012-2013 roster

1-CP3/Teague/Belinelli
2-Belinelli/T Mac/2012 pick
3-Josh Smith/Ersan/Damien Wilkins
4-Horford/Bargnani/Armstrong
5-Beans/Horford/Zeller or Benson

No dominate defensive Center, but we manage with Paul(throwing off opposing PG's and getting steals), Horford(Good team defender), and Smith(Shot Blocker). Beans aint bad as a post defender according to a stat sheet on the GS board and Wilkins(Solid 2 guard defender), T Mac, Ersan(Good at getting charges), and Hilton(Shot Blocker/altering guy) being solid team defenders

Geaux_Hawks · Post #2 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Fri Apr 1, 2011 6:14 am

forgot to mention Teague could learn from him and be a quality back up

ATL DirtyBird · Post #3 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Fri Apr 1, 2011 6:51 am

Can we not just stop this?

Harry10 · Post #4 » by **Harry10** » Fri Apr 1, 2011 10:44 am

i'm okay with Deron or CP3 as a plan B, but Dwight should still be plan A. Smoove should be able to gauge if the Hawks can secure Dwight or not. if not, then the Hawks should have an easier time getting Deron or CP3 because CHI and BOS already have a PG. Dallas, NY, are Atlanta's only competition (NJ has a slight shot, but would be the dark horse in the race)

Ruhiel · Post #5 » by **Ruhiel** » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:10 pm

Harry10 wrote:i'm okay with Deron or CP3 as a plan B, but Dwight should still be plan A. Smoove should be able to gauge if the Hawks can secure Dwight or not. if not, then the Hawks should have an easier time getting Deron or CP3 because CHI and BOS already have a PG. Dallas, NY, are Atlanta's only competition (NJ has a slight shot, but would be the dark horse in the race)

injury prone POR maybe as well.
NJ I doubt, point blank those PGs want a great big man ala Kobe & Shaq/ Kobe & Bynum/Gasol.
NYK can only get one of those guys, we are screwed if they S&T for Howard though

"Smoove should be able to gauge if the Hawks can secure Dwight or not."

Geaux_Hawks · Post #6 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Fri Apr 1, 2011 3:44 pm

I'm not sold on Dwight leaving Orlando, and that if Josh and Howard got together, then it would be via Josh going to Orlando in a rip off deal. Something like Orton + a couple of first or if we didn't resign him after 2013.. :/

Paul would look at NY and not see a championship contender, but just a team that could win games like MIA is doing, plus Deron is going to bolt there at first chance. Dallas might be the best competition, but Paul looks at the core of that team after 2012 and see an aging Dirk, and no one else on that team. Paul looks at the Hawks core and see an athletic 3/4 tweener in Josh, a great mid-range shooting PF in Horford, and plenty of money and a team of his own, if we can dump Joe for some small cheap assets. I assumed we would trade Marvin+filler for Bargs(50/50 with some Raps fans) and Zaza+filer for Beans(GS board likes that trade alot with one or two exceptions) and also just sign Belinelli(Paul gets to play with a former back court mate;not alot of incentive but we would need a SG). NJ isn't even a Dark Horse unless a trade happened.

I have factored in Paul just going to Orlando, which just eliminates both for us.

parson · Post #7 » by **parson** » Fri Apr 1, 2011 4:32 pm

We should go for whomever turns out to be the easiest to get, knowing that having one will make it more likely to get the other.

Harry10 · Post #8 » by **Harry10** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:36 am

Ruhiel wrote:
Harry10 wrote:i'm okay with Deron or CP3 as a plan B, but Dwight should still be plan A. Smoove should be able to gauge if the Hawks can secure Dwight or not. if not, then the Hawks should have an easier time getting Deron or CP3 because CHI and BOS already have a PG. Dallas, NY, are Atlanta's only competition (NJ has a slight shot, but would be the dark horse in the race)

injury prone POR maybe as well.
NJ I doubt, point blank those PGs want a great big man ala Kobe & Shaq/ Kobe & Bynum/Gasol.
NYK can only get one of those guys, we are screwed if they S&T for Howard though
"Smoove should be able to gauge if the Hawks can secure Dwight or not."

what money will POR have to offer with Roy, LMA, and Wallace on the books?

Geaux_Hawks · Post #9 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 7:18 am

Harry10 wrote:
Ruhiel wrote:
Harry10 wrote:i'm okay with Deron or CP3 as a plan B, but Dwight should still be plan A. Smoove should be able to gauge if the Hawks can secure Dwight or not. if not, then the Hawks should have an easier time getting Deron or CP3 because CHI and BOS already have a PG. Dallas, NY, are Atlanta's only competition (NJ has a slight shot, but would be the dark horse in the race)

injury prone POR maybe as well.
NJ I doubt, point blank those PGs want a great big man ala Kobe & Shaq/ Kobe & Bynum/Gasol.
NYK can only get one of those guys, we are screwed if they S&T for Howard though
"Smoove should be able to gauge if the Hawks can secure Dwight or not."

what money will POR have to offer with Roy, LMA, and Wallace on the books?

maybe he means a trade..Roy, Greg Oden, Batum + 2 future first. Maybe not close enough..They do have about 8 mill before the tax and could venture into it just for Dwight. IDK don't care..They wouldn't be able to resign him anyway.

Ruhiel · Post #10 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 5:26 pm

I meant CP3, Portland was #4 on his wishlist...

HoopsGuru25 · Post #11 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Mon Apr 4, 2011 6:09 am

I don't see the Hawks getting Paul but he and Deron are much more realistic than Dwight for the simple fact that neither of their teams are close to contention.

parson · Post #12 » by **parson** » Mon Apr 4, 2011 5:20 pm

^Well, they both want to go to the Knicks, so maybe we could get the "loser" to consider us. We have the talent to help a PG rack up huge assist numbers. Plus, with us, they'd have a good chance to go far into the playoffs.

parson · Post #13 » by **parson** » Tue Apr 5, 2011 3:40 pm

Am I the only one who saw this? It's from the AJC - Orlando Ledbetter's talking about the Falcons' draft and slips this gem in:

Blog Crossover, watched the NCAA games with Mike C. He’s getting ready for a long offseason. I’ve heard D. Howard and CP3 want to come here, but the Hawks don’t have any cash left.

The link is http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-bl ... lcons_blog

If both "want to come here" and Sund (or the ASG) can't find a way, there's no hope for them. They'd have to stop calling themselves NBA personnel and just admit they're hacks (like the rest of us).

For all the talk about Horford and Smoove, I'd trade both to make CP/DH a reality. I wouldn't want to and I'd never volunteer them, but if they were the price...

Ruhiel · Post #14 » by **Ruhiel** » Tue Apr 5, 2011 4:14 pm

parson wrote:Am I the only one who saw this? It's from the AJC - Orlando Ledbetter's talking about the Falcons' draft and slips this gem in:
Blog Crossover, watched the NCAA games with Mike C. He’s getting ready for a long offseason. I’ve heard D. Howard and CP3 want to come here, but the Hawks don’t have any cash left.

The link is http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-bl ... lcons_blog

If both "want to come here" and Sund (or the ASG) can't find a way, there's no hope for them. They'd have to stop calling themselves NBA personnel and just admit they're hacks (like the rest of us).

For all the talk about Horford and Smoove, I'd trade [b]both to make CP/DH a reality.[/b] I wouldn't want to and I'd never volunteer them, but if they were the price...

Then what would the point be? To have a big 3 of Joe, Howard, and CP3? instead of a team or a Big 3 of CP3, Howard, and Melo/Stoudemire.

Like I said before, obviously Howard wants to play with Smith and CP3 wants to play with Howard. Trade Joe slide Marvin to the 2, get those undervalued free agents who can run score and defend such as Stanley Robinson and Al Thornton and Diogu/Armstrong to solidify your bench and wait for 2012 free agency. No need to spend most money on JC. Just get wings that can score down low and get fouled. Trading Horf and Smith are out of the question as they are the main physical players that Howard has always wanted to play with!

a bench wing lineup of Thornton, Robinson, and Diogu/Armstrong?? currently costs $1.5 million.
Robinson is a "Crash" type player he crashes the boards, plays with energy, and gets fouled a lot because he uses his size on smaller wings and best of all he can guard the 1-4.
Crazy that he's not in the league, guess all the scouts are in Europe!

$14 mil apiece(ala Miami)
Chris Paul*/Marvin Williams/Josh Smith*/Al Horford/Dwight Howard*
Jeff Teague/Al Thornton*/Stanley Robinson/Ike Diogu*/Zaza Pachulia

parson · Post #15 » by **parson** » Tue Apr 5, 2011 4:49 pm

My point was to spend whatever we have to get CP/DH. Those 2, even if we could only add scrubs to round out the team, would win big. CP would help the fillers score and DH would guarantee the defense.

People were arguing Smoove or Horford - I was saying neither can give us what CP and DH can.

Of course, I'd rather trade Etan Thomas to get them but NO and ORL would probably not like the offer.

parson · Post #16 » by **parson** » Tue Apr 5, 2011 4:50 pm

As for dumping salary: it'd take trading Joe, letting Jamal walk, letting Hinrich walk the next year and then we'd still have to drop $8-10 million more to sign them outright. An SNT for one of them would be a bit easier.

Ruhiel · Post #17 » by **Ruhiel** » Tue Apr 5, 2011 6:15 pm

parson wrote:My point was to spend whatever we have to get CP/DH. Those 2, even if we could only add scrubs to round out the team, would win big. CP would help the fillers score and DH would guarantee the defense.

People were arguing Smoove or Horford - I was saying neither can give us what CP and DH can.

Of course, I'd rather trade Etan Thomas to get them but NO and ORL would probably not like the offer.

I was saying sign them outright in FA. Without JC we have Hinrich expiring and whoever we traded for Joe expiring. The rest of the team would be 1 year filler unless we could get those fillers I mentioned.

The remaining core would be Horford, Smith, and Marvin, with Teague and Pachulia as backups.
2,3,4: $31.9 million
Bench
1,5 : $6.3 million
so between those 5 players it would be about $38 million.
To fill out bench with starter type material would be $2 million at most.

That leaves close to $30 million for CP3 and D12 to take with a championship lineup without going into the tax right away.

parson · Post #18 » by **parson** » Tue Apr 5, 2011 9:15 pm

It's gonna be mighty hard to find expirings for Joe, especially for 2012. Teams that have expirings will want to have a shot at using the expirings to sign Chris Paul/Deron Williams/Dwight Howard themselves.

parson · Post #19 » by **parson** » Tue Apr 5, 2011 9:17 pm

Ruhiel wrote:I was saying sign them outright in FA. Without JC we have Hinrich expiring and whoever we traded for Joe expiring. The rest of the team would be 1 year filler unless we could get those fillers I mentioned.

The remaining core would be Horford, Smith, and Marvin, with Teague and Pachulia as backups.
2,3,4: $31.9 million
Bench
1,5 : $6.3 million
so between those 5 players it would be about $38 million.
To fill out bench with starter type material would be $2 million at most.

That leaves close to $30 million for CP3 and D12 to take with a championship lineup without going into the tax right away.

You're assuming a $70 million cap?