How com nobody is mentionin how bad d Hawks look withno Josh

Harry10 · Post #1 » by **Harry10** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:21 am

How come nobody is mentioning how bad the Hawks look with no Josh in the lineup?

geeman · Post #2 » by **geeman** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:46 pm

That would mean that Josh IS NOT that replacable. The sad fact is Joe just looks like another role player out there ( a 126MIL boat one!) :cry:

evildallas · Post #3 » by **evildallas** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:45 pm

Too depressing to talk about the team right now.

Post #4 » by **Jamaaliver** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:04 pm

Our playoff seeding is already set, so these games don' count. The rotations, gameplans, effort isn't really there.

geeman wrote: The sad fact is Joe just looks like another role player out there ( a 126MIL boat one!)

I blame the system. We've seen Joe produce for ten years now; he's in good shape and stilll plays hard. But it seems this style of offense isn't the most effective for one on one players like Jamal, Joe or Jordan Crawford. It does help to get shots for lesser (offensively) talented players like Josh Smith, AL and Marvin.

Ruhiel · Post #5 » by **Ruhiel** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:59 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Our playoff seeding is already set, so these games don' count. The rotations, gameplans, effort isn't really there.

geeman wrote: The sad fact is Joe just looks like another role player out there ( a 126MIL boat one!)

I blame the system. We've seen Joe produce for ten years now; he's in good shape and stilll plays hard. But it seems this style of offense isn't the most effective for one on one players like Jamal, Joe or Jordan Crawford. It does help to get shots for lesser (offensively) talented players like Josh Smith, AL and Marvin.

#1 Joe Johnson's career PER in the playoffs: 13.7.#StoptheMadness
#2 the motion offense does have its faults, but what is happening with Joe Johnson has more to do with him and his inability to make shots than it has to do with what was the motion the offense.
#3 Josh Smith and Al Horford are the best players on this team. Marvin Williams at the 2 in the big lineup dominates the boards and gets points in the paint and free throws.

#4 The small lineup is bad enough but with Joe as the go to iso player has always been a 2nd round at best its not the coach its the players. It has always been convenient to say that Josh Smith is the one messing up the locker room/on court chemistry and he is detrimental but when Joe is out and we play Marvin at the 2 he easily scores 6 to 8 points per quarter by getting layups, shooting over smalls and smothering defenders in the post/paint and getting smalls in foul trouble. We easily win games with an adequate center imagine if we had a good to great center beside Al and Josh.

Joe cannot operate in the post like Marvin can at the 2. Marvin looks lost and unsure at the 3 spot but as a 2 he has the height advantage that Joe always get and has long enough arms to navigate around double teams and move the ball, finish in the paint etcera.

Its obvious people mistook his ballhandling skills and shooting for being superstar material. To be a superstar you need to get to the line more. Joe's go-to-move is the pullup jumpshot

But when 6'8 Josh "Hawks couldn't find a center for me and Horf so I block all the shots, so Joe can average 18 points on 17 shots" Smith goes out we lose by 30 and get pounded in the paint.
It's all about matchups and consistency. We need a center and a PG so Joe's contract needs to go.

Geaux_Hawks · Post #6 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:08 pm

Nobody talks about it because they realize no matter how much Josh may complain or doesn't have the consistent shot, he still came to play and did all he could to put the Hawks in a good position to win even if he wasn't having a big points night. Even if you bring in an adequate value guy, who will replace Josh defensive presence and still produce points, assists, and rebounds?

Opposing guards have no fear in driving the lanes without NO defensive presence on the floor. Even if our playoff position is solidified, we should still play as if we are going into the playoffs without Josh. The guy could have knee issues and the Hawks might have to play without him.

Ruhiel, we are stuck with Joe unless Minny or Dallas come calling. Also, Marvin can be a great guy on another team because we would always need a #1 guy to go to and that would put Marvin as a 4th/5th option guy for the Hawks. Marvin isn't an off the ball guy either. Joe is a way more better post guy than Marvin.

Harry10 · Post #7 » by **Harry10** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:27 am

Jamaaliver wrote:Our playoff seeding is already set, so these games don' count. The rotations, gameplans, effort isn't really there.

that is true, Josh is the only guy who gives effort in every game, regardless of playoff seeding.

ATL DirtyBird · Post #8 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:36 am

The players are sleep walking through games. If the games mattered im sure someone would comment on it. I'm starting to get sick of all the Josh talk. Bad game from him: "He sucks so bad. Trade him. Hes a cancer." Good game: "We cant trade him, hes so important to the team. I love Josh." Really getting annoying

parson · Post #9 » by **parson** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:07 am

Geaux_Hawks wrote:Opposing guards have no fear in driving the lanes without NO defensive presence on the floor. Even if our playoff position is solidified, we should still play as if we are going into the playoffs without Josh. The guy could have knee issues and the Hawks might have to play without him.

Smoove started out great with his shot blocking. However:
For the month of December, Smoove blocked 1.5/gm.
For the month of January, Smoove blocked 1.2/gm.
For the month of February, Smoove blocked 1.3/gm.
For the month of March, Smoove blocked 1.4/gm.
And, for the month of April - with a bad knee - Smoove blocked 0.5/gm.

Horford blocks 1.1/gm for the season. Shouldn't they "fear" him?

We have only 2 decent big men: Horford and Smoove. Without either one, we're in trouble. Matter-of-fact, I think both of them having leg problems is a huge reason we're stinking right now. My biggest frustration has been management's decision to try to go with this mix, rather than getting a big man.

The complaint about Smoove is never his talent but his head.

Geaux_Hawks · Post #10 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:10 am

[quote="parson"]
Smoove started out great with his shot blocking. However:
For the month of December, Smoove blocked 1.5/gm.
For the month of January, Smoove blocked 1.2/gm.
For the month of February, Smoove blocked 1.3/gm.
For the month of March, Smoove blocked 1.4/gm.
And, for the month of April - with a bad knee - Smoove blocked 0.5/gm.

Horford blocks 1.1/gm for the season. Shouldn't they "fear" him?

Statistically, No.

Physically, I guess not either since they still go at him.

parson · Post #11 » by **parson** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:24 pm

I was being sarcastic. Notice the word "fear" in quotation marks? Smoove's not been that great of an intimidator this year. He's pretty much moved his game outside.

Ruhiel · Post #12 » by **Ruhiel** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:42 pm

Josh Smith and Horford > Joe Johnson and Horford
Josh Smith and Horford > Josh Smith and Joe Johnson

"Smoove's not been that great of an intimidator this year." Hawks Defense is Josh Smith. He is their spark-plug and the only reason they are semi-exciting. Without him they are a very earthbound and underwhelming jumpshooting team.
I honestly see him being traded this offseason. Playoffs will be very telling for some fans but the FO seems to be content with this roster. If the FO is happy with the roster after the playoffs, then they will just hire a new coach, that is assuming that they don't win it all.

CALPURNIA · Post #13 » by **CALPURNIA** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:46 pm

I hope we get passed the first round. Even the second. Why not the third. Let's think about an NBA ring.
But being realistic I can only hope we are not out in four games in a pathetic way, which is the most probable thing right now.
The players do not give it all on the court. That is obvious. They do not trust their coach's ideas and there is no union among them. The leader, the one that gets twice more money than any other, is having a very average year. Nobody is expecting him to soar in the POs.

Hopefully all this is enough for the owners to demand the staff a big change. It is not admisible that we are in this situation when we have two all star players in the roster and two more nor that far from that level. Also, Hinrich, Teague, Marvin and the rest of the group provide enough help to give headaches to many teams. Just as we did with the Celtics in that round three years ago. With younger players. With no Crawford.
This is just and attitude problem and a coach that, regretfully, does not have what it takes to get the most out of a group. Or of this group at least...

Geaux_Hawks · Post #14 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:05 pm

CALPURNIA wrote:I hope we get passed the first round. Even the second. Why not the third. Let's think about an NBA ring.
But being realistic I can only hope we are not out in four games in a pathetic way, which is the most probable thing right now.
The players do not give it all on the court. That is obvious. They do not trust their coach's ideas and there is no union among them. The leader, the one that gets twice more money than any other, is having a very average year. Nobody is expecting him to soar in the POs.

Hopefully all this is enough for the owners to demand the staff a big change. It is not admisible that we are in this situation when we have two all star players in the roster and two more nor that far from that level. Also, Hinrich, Teague, Marvin and the rest of the group provide enough help to give headaches to many teams. Just as we did with the Celtics in that round three years ago. With younger players. With no Crawford.
This is just and attitude problem and a coach that, regretfully, does not have what it takes to get the most out of a group. Or of this group at least...

+10

I wanted an upgrade over Woody, not a downgrade. I would take Woody back if I knew Drew was going to get the job. If you are going to promote an assistant then at least give him an interim job first.

Ruhiel · Post #15 » by **Ruhiel** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:14 pm

Larry Drew gives the Hawks freedom to do what they want, with Josh out instead of people saying Josh is untouchable they say Drew has to go.

Suggesting that the core has enough to win it all without adding a premier bookend player (PG or C) is preposterous.
In the coming years Dwight Howard will at the very least be playing with a star Point guard and the Heat will likely improve at center. And Joe will continue to age.
Bulls and Knicks are here to stay barring major injury and Celts are retooling and are a tossup but do u really think the Hawks are favorites in the future?