Atlanta Hawks: Tough changes need to be made

[geeman]

Did not take long, but the rush to make Josh fall guy is here!


http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-hawks-blog ... ment-29023

[davefmcl]

I think most Hawks fans would love to trade Joe Johnson for market value, but the chances getting market value in return is extremely slim.

You could trade Marvin Williams and other role players, but that would not be a signifcant change.

That leaves 2 players are value to discuss: Josh Smith and Al Horford. Given that choice I think the overwhelming majority of fans would shop Josh Smith.

[geeman]

If we can't trade Joe thean all we need is a big. I dont think Josh or Al get you a top 5 big, but we may be able to get a Haywood from dallas for Marvin. Josh has two years left on his deal next year is not the year you move him it during the 2012 -2013 season. Personally, I see him following D. Howard to win a title if things don't improve here... I would

[parson]

I don't think we can trade Marvelous. His trade value is ruined.

Guys on this board keep telling me I'm wrong when I talk about developing talent. They say the players have to show that they deserve to play. Then I see a coach like Thibodeau taking a bunch of players no one believed in and making maybe the best 2nd unit in basketball. You have 12 players on your roster. Use them all.

We've criticized the ASG so let me say one very good thing about them: they are patient with their coaches. A coach doesn't have to worry about his back here. Woodson and Drew have both coached to keep their jobs when they should have been growing their team. Drew is digging his own grave with his "win now" anxiety.

Before anyone tells me I'm wrong (again) answer this: what would Thibodeau do with Marvelous, Armstrong, Etan and Teague? And don't take the easy way out and say he'd cut them. You know he'd find a way to use their talents. He'd start out small and add a wrinkle every so often.

[geeman]

I don't think we can trade Marvelous. His trade value is ruined.

Guys on this board keep telling me I'm wrong when I talk about developing talent. They say the players have to show that they deserve to play. Then I see a coach like Thibodeau taking a bunch of players no one believed in and making maybe the best 2nd unit in basketball. You have 12 players on your roster. Use them all.

We've criticized the ASG so let me say one very good thing about them: they are patient with their coaches. A coach doesn't have to worry about his back here. Woodson and Drew have both coached to keep their jobs when they should have been growing their team. Drew is digging his own grave with his "win now" anxiety.

Before anyone tells me I'm wrong (again) answer this: what would Thibodeau do with Marvelous, Armstrong, Etan and Teague? And don't take the easy way out and say he'd cut them. You know he'd find a way to use their talents. He'd start out small and add a wrinkle every so often.

I think youn kind of right about coach, Thibodeau came to the bull and was given a long term contract.... We get these guys and give them 150k for 2 years and expect them not to try to win now at the expense develping player for the future.

[parson]

We pay Drew more than 150k. Look at this http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2010/06/at ... ew-as.html

Then focus on this quote and cry :

Drew and the Hawks have agreed to a three-year, $5 million deal, according to the source. Those figures are slightly less than the three-year, $6.5 million deal Boston Celtics assistant Tom Thibodeau received from the Chicago Bulls. In both cases, only two years are guaranteed.

Woulda ... coulda ... shoulda ...

[D21]

The stupid thing is that we are talking about trading Josh or Al, but a team wanting to make the NBA Finals should need both AND a good big, but I am afraid that trading one of them for a big, even if the big is good, will never make us reaching the Finals, because even if they did not make good playoffs this year, they are both under good congtracts regarding their values and ages.

Joe even at his level of first round, will never deserves the salary he got, but it doesn't mean we should trade the two guys with good contracts. Now I hope it the last time that Al will make a ugly series like that, and that Josh continue to play smarter in playoffs like he did this series.

I would be open to trade them, but we won't be very better than now.
The improvement could come from trading expiring or nearly expiring for longer contract, or a big expiring that if has some value could be re-signed later for less money, use our MLE,... but it costs a lot.

[myrak433]

The stupid thing is that we are talking about trading Josh or Al, but a team wanting to make the NBA Finals should need both AND a good big, but I am afraid that trading one of them for a big, even if the big is good, will never make us reaching the Finals, because even if they did not make good playoffs this year, they are both under good congtracts regarding their values and ages.

Joe even at his level of first round, will never deserves the salary he got, but it doesn't mean we should trade the two guys with good contracts. Now I hope it the last time that Al will make a ugly series like that, and that Josh continue to play smarter in playoffs like he did this series.

I would be open to trade them, but we won't be very better than now.
The improvement could come from trading expiring or nearly expiring for longer contract, or a big expiring that if has some value could be re-signed later for less money, use our MLE,... but it costs a lot.

You trying to tell me If we would trade Horford and Marvin for Paul Gasol then picked up Tayshaun Prince, Yi Jianlian and chuck hayes via Free agency, you don't think we would be a better team?

Teague/ Kirk
JJ/ JC or Kirk
Smoove/ Prince
Hayes/ Yi Jianlian
Gasol/ ZaZa

Yi would be to sell tickets to the asian community in atlanta.

[Ruhiel]

Gasol is not a center.

[parson]

You trying to tell me If we would trade Horford and Marvin for Paul Gasol then picked up Tayshaun Prince, Yi Jianlian and chuck hayes via Free agency, you don't think we would be a better team?

Teague/ Kirk
JJ/ JC or Kirk
Smoove/ Prince
Hayes/ Yi Jianlian
Gasol/ ZaZa

Yi would be to sell tickets to the asian community in atlanta.

Horford is better than Gasol and has bested him man-to-man. He's better and cheaper. Why would we want Gasol?

As far as the rest of your FA ideas -- with what money?

[Pacerlive]

So a lot of Pacer fans love Josh and would be willing to trade hibbert for him. The idea here is that you dont have to match salaries so you could also sign someone and move Alford to pf. What do you guys think?

[myrak433]

Gasol is not a center.

Gasol can score from the Center spot better than Horford. also that is why we would pick up Hayes. Chuck is a banger he can play Center on the Defensive end and Gasol plays it on the offensive end.

[NeZoRiL]

So a lot of Pacer fans love Josh and would be willing to trade hibbert for him. The idea here is that you dont have to match salaries so you could also sign someone and move Alford to pf. What do you guys think?

I would do that if we get someone else too. They need Josh Smith, he'd be perfect for the Pacers for sure. Hibbert here would be absolutely awesome, he'd be a good fit.

[myrak433]

You trying to tell me If we would trade Horford and Marvin for Paul Gasol then picked up Tayshaun Prince, Yi Jianlian and chuck hayes via Free agency, you don't think we would be a better team?

Teague/ Kirk
JJ/ JC or Kirk
Smoove/ Prince
Hayes/ Yi Jianlian
Gasol/ ZaZa

Yi would be to sell tickets to the asian community in atlanta.

Horford is better than Gasol and has bested him man-to-man. He's better and cheaper. Why would we want Gasol?

Horford is not better than Gasol that is LUDICROUS. Horford will never be able to score like Gasol in the post. Gasol is huge, can score with either hand, and hit the mid-range jump shot better than Horford, blocks shots better than Horford, passes the ball better than Horford, and he rebounds better than Horford. the only think Horford does better than Gasol is bring the ball up the court on the break and he runs better than Gasol. but do you really need you big man bringing the ball up the court?

As far as the rest of your FA ideas -- with what money?

that is why we would move Marvin Williams with Horford. you do know Horford will be making about 10 million a year and Marvin will be making about 7 million a year? Right? that is about what Paul Gasol makes. and the free agents Prince and Chuck hell pay Prince what Powell makes and give chuck a little more than than that. and don't bring back Powell, Etan, or Hilton Armstrong. that is to easy. we still have to fill out the roster. we have to have 13 players right?

lets count Teague, kirk, jj, jc, smoove, prince, Hayes, Rolle,Gasol,zaza. thats is ten. we still need three more. Prince and Hayes will not be big money free agents.

[Pacerlive]

So a lot of Pacer fans love Josh and would be willing to trade hibbert for him. The idea here is that you dont have to match salaries so you could also sign someone and move Alford to pf. What do you guys think?

I would do that if we get someone else too. They need Josh Smith, he'd be perfect for the Pacers for sure. Hibbert here would be absolutely awesome, he'd be a good fit.

not sure what else to add really. Maybe a really good defender and sg to come off the bench like Brush or Djones.

[NeZoRiL]

Give us Rush and Hibbert and you've got a deal.

[geeman]

How about this small tweek.... We could start him. maybe he plays 20 min

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Atlanta Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -9.3 ppg, -3.2 rpg, and -1.3 apg.
Incoming Players
Hasheem Thabeet
24 year old , 7-3, 263 lb C from Connecticut
1.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.9 minutes
Outgoing Players
Marvin Williams
24.5 year old , 6-9, 230 lb F from North Carolina
10.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.7 minutes


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... z1MRDg72P2

[Ruhiel]

@geeman

YES

[D21]

You trying to tell me If we would trade Horford and Marvin for Paul Gasol then picked up Tayshaun Prince, Yi Jianlian and chuck hayes via Free agency, you don't think we would be a better team?

Teague/ Kirk
JJ/ JC or Kirk
Smoove/ Prince
Hayes/ Yi Jianlian
Gasol/ ZaZa

Yi would be to sell tickets to the asian community in atlanta.

I don't even need to answer on the fact that this team is better or not, because what I was really trying to tell you is that you won't be able to get this team in ATL.

Horford will make 12M and Marvin 8M. Gasol will make 18.7M, so 1.3M less.
It would put us at more than 65M for next year, and it's only with Teague, Hinrich, Joe, Josh, Pau, Zaza, Sy and Rolle.
With a Tax threshold certainly around 70M, you can't even spend your full MLE before being over the threshold, and you have 5 guys to add to get a 13 players roster.

Good luck to you to sign Prince, Yi, Hayes, and other players to fill the roster, for less than 5M.
And don't count on ASG to start to pay Taxes for this roster.

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not opposed to a trade of Horford for Gasol, I could be OK for that, but like I said, with this trade, you won't end up with the team you hoped, and in the end, I don't think you would have a better team.

[myrak433]

You trying to tell me If we would trade Horford and Marvin for Paul Gasol then picked up Tayshaun Prince, Yi Jianlian and chuck hayes via Free agency, you don't think we would be a better team?

Teague/ Kirk
JJ/ JC or Kirk
Smoove/ Prince
Hayes/ Yi Jianlian
Gasol/ ZaZa

Yi would be to sell tickets to the asian community in atlanta.

I don't even need to answer on the fact that this team is better or not, because what I was really trying to tell you is that you won't be able to get this team in ATL.

Horford will make 12M and Marvin 8M. Gasol will make 18.7M, so 1.3M less.
It would put us at more than 65M for next year, and it's only with Teague, Hinrich, Joe, Josh, Pau, Zaza, Sy and Rolle.
With a Tax threshold certainly around 70M, you can't even spend your full MLE before being over the threshold, and you have 5 guys to add to get a 13 players roster.

Good luck to you to sign Prince, Yi, Hayes, and other players to fill the roster, for less than 5M.
And don't count on ASG to start to pay Taxes for this roster.

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not opposed to a trade of Horford for Gasol, I could be OK for that, but like I said, with this trade, you won't end up with the team you hoped, and in the end, I don't think you would have a better team.

well lets see if we trade horford and marvin for pau and a 2nd this year and a 1st in 2013.
with JJ, Teague, Smith, ZaZa, Pau,and kirk that is 63.4M. I am sure you can bring wilkins, rolle, sy, and the two 2011 2nd round picks for around 1M. that puts the payroll at lets just say 65M with 11 players. that leave 5M to sign two more guys but I would put one or both of the 2nd round guys in the D-league and get 3 more guys. Hayes 2M Prince 1M and tmac 1M Yi 1M