Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

[HMFFL]

For seven seasons, Josh Smith has shown us that he can be the best player on the floor. For seven seasons, he has shown us that he can be the worst player on the floor. The fact these opposites often appear in the same game is what makes him so maddening.

This is why after seven seasons, it’s time to say goodbye.

Smith is not the biggest problem on the Hawks’ roster, he’s merely the greatest lightning rod for criticism. He’s not the player who has crippled the payroll and just followed the richest contract in NBA history — $123,658,089 — with his least-productive season. That would be Joe Johnson. http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/ ... um=twitter

[Harry10]

^


I hate these things, the people who write these articles or constantly make these post are dumb and never contribute anything. just stating the obvious and not giving a real solution. the article pretty much just says that the Hawks should trade Smoove or Horford for some magical 7 foot center, but these people never give an actual realistic plan, or no plan at all. well it is not that hard to name a center that you want to replace Smoove or Horford with, here is a list below, so why not give a real solution rather than writing another dumb article.

Noah
Chandler
Haywood
Nene
Biedrins
Hibbert
Hawes
Dalembert
Cousins
Bragnani
Kaman
DeAndre
Dwight
Marc Gasol
Bogut
Darko
Lopez
Okafor
Perkins
Gortat
Camby
Jefferson
McGee

[Harry10]

Al Horford won’t be traded because he’s the team’s most consistent player.

This is so wrong that Schultz must either be lying or stupid.

[jagstang76]

Well, except for the end of the year, Horford was the most consistent player on our team.

[Harry10]

Well, except for the end of the year, Horford was the most consistent player on our team.

I kinda don't even agree with that....... Horford has been horrible in the playoffs the last 3 years. the only good series he had was the Milwaukee series (because Bogut was hurt), but the Miami, Cleveland, Chicago, and both Orlando series, Horford has absolutely sucked. so i don't really see were the consistency comes from, from regular season to playoffs

Smoove has been the only guys on the team that has been consistent from regular season to playoffs. he was amazing in the Miami and Cleveland series, he had two bad games in the Milwaukee series, but over all had a good showing in the series, dominated in both Orlando series, and was the only guy who played with heart in the Chicago series.

[Skyhawk1]

Smoove has been the only guys on the team that has been consistent from regular season to playoffs.

Are you really serious?

[Harry10]

Smoove has been the only guys on the team that has been consistent from regular season to playoffs.

Are you really serious?

yes of course, any Check your messages. HMFFL can see that. Josh is the only guy who is consistent, especially consistent from regular season to playing in the playoffs. just click on the links below. Josh shows up and plays to win, Horford doesn't care and just grabs his pay check:

Josh Smith
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2011/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2010/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2009/#stats_playoffs

Al Horford
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2011/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2010/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2009/#stats_playoffs

[#1 pick]

Harry, you are delusional. No way has Smith been our most consistent player much less is our best player. Horford is our best. Smith is our most talented. Joe is our most important. Teague has the best potential outside of Horford. Jamal is our most important off the bench. Zaza is our enforcer. The rest is meh.

[HMFFL]

Why bother comparing Smith to Horford? Put Smith at the 5 and let me know how he does. Horford has played at an All-Star level, but Josh Smith on the other hand continues to make immature mistakes, he ignores his coaching staff, his teammates, and any constructive criticism he receives from his fans. The good things Josh does are offset with his poor decision making on offense, but he's going to continue to be a fan favorite, because he's the most exciting player on the team.

Josh turns the ball over on average around 200 times a season. How many times does he give our opponent the ball after missing so many jumpers & 3-pointers? For having no range he attempted 154 3-pointers this season.

He needs to take some notes from Kevin Love who worked on his game during last years off-season. He improved his rebounding positioning and he worked very hard to improve his range. 3-point states: 88-211 (41.7%)

[Harry10]

Harry, you are delusional. No way has Smith been our most consistent player much less is our best player. Horford is our best. Smith is our most talented. Joe is our most important. Teague has the best potential outside of Horford. Jamal is our most important off the bench. Zaza is our enforcer. The rest is meh.

it is fine that you want to make blind statements with no facts or proof, but explane the poor playoff performance Horford has been giving the last 3 years and explain the links below:

Josh Smith
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2011/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2010/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2009/#stats_playoffs

Al Horford
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2011/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2010/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2009/#stats_playoffs

......... and explain why Josh has consistently has good play off performances

[#1 pick]

Harry, you are delusional. No way has Smith been our most consistent player much less is our best player. Horford is our best. Smith is our most talented. Joe is our most important. Teague has the best potential outside of Horford. Jamal is our most important off the bench. Zaza is our enforcer. The rest is meh.

it is fine that you want to make blind statements with no facts or proof, but explane the poor playoff performance Horford has been giving the last 3 years and explain the links below:

Josh Smith
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2011/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2010/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03/gamelog/2009/#stats_playoffs

Al Horford
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2011/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2010/#stats_playoffs
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2009/#stats_playoffs

......... and explain why Josh has consistently has good play off performances

PnR PF
A movement offensive player.
In the playoffs, teams stop movement v. teams like us who are bad at it stat wise.
Therefore, Horford stats fall.
Smith wasn't good v. Orlando. Horford was our 3rd best player after Jamal and Joe in that series.

Stats don't tell what the gametape says. Especially if teams are gameplanning you to shoot jumpers outside of 15+. Nothing I said was blind. It's realistic. We can go back adv stats and all that but it all equal what I wrote above. No need to continue this.

[Harry10]

^ Orlando series

Smith 86pts, 49reb, .420FG%

Horford 72pts, 61reb, .402FG%

Smith was way better than Horford, and Josh was playing out of position at SF and Horford was supposidly playing his "natural position" PF

okay that is fine, you are blaming the "system" which is always a lame excuse. that still doesn't excuse Horford from not rebounding and missing open jump shots

so you have your lame excuse for Horford for playing bad, but i guess we should just count on Horford never contributing in the playoffs, and why doesn't Smith play bad with your "movement offensive player" theory.

i'm okay with Horford sucking on offense, i just can't stand his lack of passion he has in the playoffs, so okay fine, he doesn't score because Joe hogs the ball, so why can't he have some heart and rebound and play defense like Haslem did in Chicago. Haslem and Smith, now they are consistent, regardless if they are on a bad team or good team, they always rebound in the playoffs and show passion. if Horford can just alittle bit of heart like Haslem and Smith have, he could be an impact player in the playoffs.

[Harry10]

PnR PF
A movement offensive player.
In the playoffs, teams stop movement v. teams like us who are bad at it stat wise.
Therefore, Horford stats fall.
Smith wasn't good v. Orlando. Horford was our 3rd best player after Jamal and Joe in that series.

Stats don't tell what the gametape says. Especially if teams are gameplanning you to shoot jumpers outside of 15+. Nothing I said was blind. It's realistic. We can go back adv stats and all that but it all equal what I wrote above. No need to continue this.

i think you say it all right their....... Horford can easily be shut down by other team with just some game planning, he can't make adjustments and can't out rebound anybody.

[#1 pick]

PnR PF
A movement offensive player.
In the playoffs, teams stop movement v. teams like us who are bad at it stat wise.
Therefore, Horford stats fall.
Smith wasn't good v. Orlando. Horford was our 3rd best player after Jamal and Joe in that series.

Stats don't tell what the gametape says. Especially if teams are gameplanning you to shoot jumpers outside of 15+. Nothing I said was blind. It's realistic. We can go back adv stats and all that but it all equal what I wrote above. No need to continue this.

i think you say it all right their....... Horford can easily be shut down by other team with just some game planning, he can't make adjustments and can't out rebound anybody.

I was talking about Smith in the paragraph.

[parson]

i think you say it all right their....... Horford can easily be shut down by other team with just some game planning, he can't make adjustments and can't out rebound anybody.

Er, um, he outrebounded Smith, as you just pointed out: 61 to 49.

Horford's rebounds went slightly up - from 9.4 to 9.6 - in the playoffs but his scoring went down from 15 to 11.
Smith's rebounds stayed the same - 8.5 - and his scoring went down from 16.5 to 15.1.

What were we talking about again?

[Harry10]

PnR PF
A movement offensive player.
In the playoffs, teams stop movement v. teams like us who are bad at it stat wise.
Therefore, Horford stats fall.
Smith wasn't good v. Orlando. Horford was our 3rd best player after Jamal and Joe in that series.

Stats don't tell what the gametape says. Especially if teams are gameplanning you to shoot jumpers outside of 15+. Nothing I said was blind. It's realistic. We can go back adv stats and all that but it all equal what I wrote above. No need to continue this.

i think you say it all right their....... Horford can easily be shut down by other team with just some game planning, he can't make adjustments and can't out rebound anybody.

I was talking about Smith in the paragraph.

Smith wasn't shooting jump shots, but so wasn't Horford. the difference is that Josh made adjustments and in turn impacted the game. while Horford, couldn't do anything, offensively and defensively and had no impact. Horford had zero impact to a point that every time he touched the ball, it was a guaranteed miss shot that led to a fast break, or turn over that led to a fast break for the Bulls and Magic.

[jagstang76]

I'm not sure what series you were watching. I know Horford struggled, but I didn't see the extreme that you are talking about. He has been able to play with consistent energy and keep his numbers coming. I watch Josh play great one game and poorly the next. That's not "making adjustments" as you say, that's guilt forcing him to concentrate. When he does play well, he thumps his chest and says, "Don't question my heart!" When I see him keep his focus after a bad call or no call and go to the other end of the floor and make a play, then I will believe he has grown up and changed. You can see Horford telling himself to get back up and make a play, and that's why he has heart. I think he has a lot to work on if he's going to play PF, but he's got the willpower to adjust and become better. Remember that he's only played 4 seasons to Smith's 7. Both are young, but he's already proven to be able to improve his game at a greater pace than Josh ever has.

[Years80HAWKS]

When it counted the most I believe Smith played far better than Horford. Anyway, I believe this is not the problem.
Smith is upset because fans critize him while other players play worse. I completely agree with this.
But the reason why we do this is because we believe he has the potential to offer much more that what he already did. He could be a much better scorer, may be a better rebounder and, of course, he could offer most important things to his team. Also he stopped being a good shot blocker, but we hope he retunrs to that condition when he is healthy next season.

JJ has already proved that he can do what he has already done. Anything else. He can shoot with better accuracy, but he is not going to rebound better, pass more or defend in a different way.

I believe that the way to increase the output of this team has to be keeping both Smith and Horford and using Jamaals money to sigh somebody like Haywood or a medium-low profile center who does not earn much and who can defend well and add some post scoring.

Then our main question to be answered is what to do with our coaching position. Supposedly LD should come back being a better coach, with more experience. But I do not expect him to be respected, to get that Smith plays with certain "rules" and to get that JJ offers some more once he is the richest player in the league.
Also a bigger contribution by Marvin would be welcome. And with bigger I mean offer more things: rebounding more (he is athletic, he is 6-9, he jumps quite high), scoring in different ways (and not only with jump shots) and getting more FTs.

[parson]

Smith "got it" towards the end of the CHI series. If he maintains that, his natural ability to fill the stat sheet will come to the fore. That makes is less likely the Hawks will want to trade him.

Besides, we should only trade him if we can get a good Center and that seems unlikely. Do we really want Kaman? Hawes? Haywood? Bargnani (don't say it, Geaux)? If the price is Smith? Really?

Prediction: we'll keep Smith, we'll keep Horford (relax, Smoove-only lovers), we'll try to trade Joe and fail and we'll go with Hinrich/Teague at PG.

Faced with that situation, a real GM (pardon the pun) will have to find his way to a Center prospect.

Who knows? Maybe Twin finally decides to arrive in shape. With a starting spot almost being HANDED to him, you'd think....

[HMFFL]

Denver would be a good fit if we actually consider trading Josh Smith. I like some of the pieces they have, not just Nene, but Nene would be the one that most Atlanta fans would prefer. I doubt Denver would trade him for Josh Smith and leave a gaping void to fill at the 5.

As far as Joe Johnson goes, I believe if Sund wants to trade him, he knows Dallas will listen, because it was reported that Dallas called about a S&T during last years off-season. Cuban might be more open to moving Rodrigue Beaubois after he hyped him up as his way to make Dallas fans actually believe he had a chance to acquire Lebron James with him. Rodrigue Beaubois is a very raw and Coaches have a much better read on him since he's played more minutes, but his injuries are a concern.