Atlanta Hawks:

[HMFFL]

So if you are trying to be a championship contender, would you rather be GM of the Knicks or the Hawks right about now?

In Atlanta, you have a roster that’s been built on the Detroit model, which is historically flawed because a superstar player has almost always been necessary to win a title. But you do have two All-Stars, an All-Star (if enigmatic) talent, a promising young point guard and a solid veteran point guard.

In New York, you have the opposite problem. The Knicks have two superstar talents and not enough around them. Howard Beck of the New York Times breaks down the dilemma face by the Knicks:

Read More: http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/06/08/a ... logs_hawks

[Ruhiel]

"Now consider the Knicks’ extensive list of needs: a defensive-minded center, a starting-caliber shooting guard, a point guard to replace the aging Chauncey Billups (whose contract expires in 2012) and a power forward to spell Stoudemire, at the very least. The draft will be of little help; the Knicks have no first-round picks in 2012 and 2014, and they will be drafting low when they do have a pick.

This is not a caretaker job despite the presence of two All-Star forwards.

Walsh made the bold moves — gutting the payroll, signing Stoudemire and accumulating the assets that were parlayed into Anthony. The next general manager will benefit from Walsh’s work. But he will also be handicapped by a lack of midrange talent, draft picks and payroll flexibility.

The next general manager will have to be creative, clever and savvy when it comes to manipulating the new salary-cap structure, whatever form it takes.

In Miami last summer, LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade accepted below-maximum salaries to make room for Miller and Haslem — who also took below-market deals to join the Heat. The Knicks do not have that luxury, because Stoudemire and Anthony are already locked in long term (the N.B.A. does not allow renegotiations).

Will top-tier role players take less money to join Anthony and Stoudemire in New York? That remains to be seen, but the list of players who have taken discounted contracts in the last 10 years is very short."
............
It does not look good for the Hawks.

[HoopsGuru25]

The word "super-star" needs to stop being thrown around so loosely.

With that said-The Knicks are one of the handful of NBA teams who have no financial concerns when it comes to making trades to improve the team or hiring a head coach. It's not really that hard of a choice to make when you consider how bad the Hawks ownership is.

[td00]

Hoops said all that needs to be said.....the Knicks don't have limitations..the Hawks have nothing but limitations including Gearon and Sund.

And why did Sund take the 1 year extension deal? Because how easy is it to take money while making, what, a few minor moves to fill out the roster? Sund is not known for major changes.

IMO, its pick 48, pick up 2 or 3 minimum vets, and there's your preseason Hawks' fans. I call that easy money!

[Ruhiel]

Hoops said all that needs to be said.....the Knicks don't have limitations..the Hawks have nothing but limitations including Gearon and Sund.

And why did Sund take the 1 year extension deal? Because how easy is it to take money while making, what, a few minor moves to fill out the roster? Sund is not known for major changes.

IMO, its pick 48, pick up 2 or 3 minimum vets, and there's your preseason Hawks' fans. I call that easy money!

[D21]

It's just unbelievable to continue to talk about this DET model.
It never happened here.

DET never gave a full max contract to a player of their winning team.
The first one that started to ask for that was Ben Wallace, and DET let him walk. And it was not for Max but for 15M.

If Wallace had accepted 13M or less to stay in DET, their model would have continue a bit.

By never having a Billups type of PG, and having Joe at 21M/yr for 6 years, we are definitely not build as DET was.

[td00]

Excellent points, and we are still unsure who our PG is....that doesn't happen on a successful teams with maybe the exception of Miami. It costs them as well.

[Ruhiel]

our PG going forward is J.T., this is ridiculous to even try to debate.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Miami actually has Chalmers, but the Hawks never had a Detroit model of success going on. Never had that offensive killer like Sheed was or Big shot clutch performer like Billups..Horford dissapears in big moments, Josh is inconsistent in becoming that offensive threat, Joe is aging past his clutch days, and Marvin just doesn't have the skill set to succeed or improve this particular team. A good defensive team, without enough offensive power or clutch performers to threaten the NBA crown..

[Ruhiel]

@Geaux_Hawks we were 15th defensively with and without Bibby. The truth is we funnel everything to Josh, just like the Magic funnel everything to Howard.

Smith is better than Tayshaun Prince, Teague was more efficient than Billups in his Finals run, Hinrich>Lindsey Hunter. (ignoring the fact that Tayshaun guarded Kobe on offense) Rip Hamilton in the Finals=JJ in the 1st round; semis.

we have Smith to guard the Lebrons, Marions, and Dengs but no depth.

The troubling thing is Horford was about even with Rasheed Wallace in the playoffs but the type of shots he creates is different and don't lead to 3 point plays.
Ben Wallace?? I thought Smith was Tayshaun...

I remember back in 2008 when this team first burst on the scene. Don't be fooled Atlanta was going for the Phoenix model.

and just like Phoenix failed with NBA champion Shawn Marion we failed with Josh Smith.

[D21]

Hmmm... I forgot one important point : you can like them or not, but DET had Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown as head coach, another big difference with ATL.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Hmmm... I forgot one important point : you can like them or not, but DET had Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown as head coach, another big difference with ATL.

The most obvious point and you forgot it... :/

Ruhiel, where do you get your numbers from. Looking at espn.com, the Hawks were 9th in PPG and the 4th best perimeter D.

Anyway, I don't think Horford was as big as Sheed was on offense. Teague had one good playoff series, while Billups hit big shots. Yeah, we need JJ curling and coming off of multiple screens like Rip was doing.

[Ruhiel]

@Geaux_Hawks we were 15th DEFensively. 9th in PPG"

4th best perimeter D?

where do you get that stat? and 95 Points per game is easy to do when you frequently run small lineups.

Adverse effects:

Defensive Rtg per 100 possessions:
107.0 (13th of 30) [Dallas - 105.0, 8th, Miami - 103.5, 5th]

Offensive Rtg per 100 possessions:
106.1 (20th of 30) [Dallas - Off Rtg: 109.7 (8th of 30), Miami Off Rtg: 111.7 (3rd of 30)]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2011.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2011.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2011.html

Defensive efficiency 104.6; 15th of 30 teams [Dallas - 7th, Miami -5th]
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamst ... rder/false

Offensive efficiency 103.2; 21st of 30 teams [Dallas - 8th, Miami -3rd]
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/order/true

True Shooting % 54.2; 14th of 30 teams [Dallas - 4th, Miami -2nd]
.........

[Ruhiel]

and Teague played more efficiently than 2004 Chauncey Billups. While Billups is a big guard able to post up guys like Fisher and draw contact Teague showed the same ability to play in the paint, draw contact and pull up in gaps that makes premier guards so dangerous.

Teague a speed guard played 30mpg and had a PER of 16 for the 1 series against the de justo MVP Rose. He was 22 years old.
Billups a post up/big guard played 40mpg and had a PER of 16 for the 4 series. He was 27 years old.

Teague has the potential to draw doubles and make Joe the 2ndary option volume shooter we need him to be.
Defensively we still need to rectify the frontcourt matchups we'll face against Chicago, Miami and ORL (Jason Collins is not getting younger) or wherever Dwight ends up.

[MaceCase]

What are you talking about, Ruhiel? Chauncey posted an 18.8 PER during the Pistons championship run and not to mention averaged 21 points on his way to Finals MVP.
Teague played 40 minutes himself in the Chicago series once you subtract his injury shortened game 6 and he lacks the one aspect that has made Chauncey a multiple time All Star which is not just a jumper but an actually effective and deadly jumper that he can utilize from anywhere on the floor and opponents have to give the utmost respect to. Jeffrey will be hard pressed to add that aspect to his game considering that he can't hit the broadside of a barn right now from outside of 10 feet.
And I think Geaux was referring to the fact that the Hawks where 4th in opponent 3point FG% when he mentioned 4th in perimeter D.
http://hoopdata.com/oteamshotlocs.aspx

[chrbal]

I'll sum up my thoughts as quickly as possible. If the Hawks could get Samuel Dalembert to sign (sign and trade or whatever) and a better backup PG. Although Teague did show signs of life during the playoffs. This team would be amazing.