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I seriously doubt the depth chart will be balanced with offense-defense. We've been top heavy minute wise and now we're spread out thin contract/depth wise.
Minute wise how do u guys think the minutes will be split?

PG:
SG:
SF:
PF:
C:

Honestly it depends on what other pieces we get. If we get a center then,
Teague/JJ/Smith/Horford/Center
if we don't get a center
Teague/jj/marvin/smith/horford

Aside from his mother, I'm the biggest Marvin Williams supporter on the planet. That said, he's lost his right to start. Josh Smith took SF away from him.

Now, Marvelous is a backup SF/SG. If he can play 15 ENERGETIC min/game at SF and if he can defend the 2 (and post up smaller SGs), he can stay. If he ever wants to be a starter again, he'll have to excel at those duties.

Maybe the surgery will reveal a new Marvin Williams. I'd be among the first to cheer. But until then...

Call up Detroit and offer Marvin, Zaza,and Pape for Richard Hamilton and Ben Wallace.

Call up Sactown and offer Kirk in a sign and trade for Dalembert

Sign vet minimum players: Earl Watson, Damien Wilkins, Jason Kapono, and Jason Collins

Sign Reggie Evans if his asking price does not put you into luxury

PG Teague 35 mpg/ Earl Watson 7 mpg/ Demetri McCamey 6 mpg
SG Joe 20 mpg/ Richard Hamilton 28 mpg
SF Josh 25 mpg/ Joe 15 mpg/ Damien 8 mpg
PF Al 35 mpg/ Josh 10 mpg/ Benson 3 mpg
C Dalembert 30 mpg/ Ben Wallace 12 mpg/ Benson 6 mpg

Can't see The Kings sign and trading Dalembert to us. They apparently really like him and he fits in well for their team.

parson wrote:Aside from his mother, I'm the biggest Marvin Williams supporter on the planet. That said, he's lost his right to start. Josh Smith took SF away from him.

Now, Marvelous is a backup SF/SG. If he can play 15 ENERGETIC min/game at SF and if he can defend the 2 (and post up smaller SGs), he can stay. If he ever wants to be a starter again, he'll have to excel at those duties.

Maybe the surgery will reveal a new Marvin Williams. I'd be among the first to cheer. But until then...

Marvelous has always defended whoever we asked "SF" and "SG" are just labels. Marvin defends the best wing players and lets Joe rest on defense.

Marvelous performs a bit better when smaller guys like Eyenga, Ray Allen, Gilbert Arenas and Jason Richardson are guarding him.

Wow outside of of bad defensive guards... How many big defensive guards are there in the East?

6'7 Iguodala? 6'5 Wade?

^ But Joe deserves to play SG - don't you agree he's better there than Marvelous?
And Josh deserves to play SF. Again, I'm sure you agree.

I love Marvelous. I'm forever confused as to why he doesn't just explode on the court. He has gifts that few men have. I agree that he's a superior defender - at SF AND at SG.

I just can't name a position where he has earned the right to start.

parson wrote:^ But Joe deserves to play SG - don't you agree he's better there than Marvelous?
And Josh deserves to play SF. Again, I'm sure you agree.

I love Marvelous. I'm forever confused as to why he doesn't just explode on the court. He has gifts that few men have. I agree that he's a superior defender - at SF AND at SG.

I just can't name a position where he has earned the right to start.

The ideal situation would to be get a "Power 3" to bring off the bench and replicate what Josh does for Joe (force SFs to guard Josh and leave Joe guarded by 2s).

Joe last year was very inefficient and him playing only 36 minutes and having career lows in Wins Shared.

WS/48 says if 1 player affects 10% of everything to generate a win, be it defense or offense then for every 480 minutes he plays he'll win one game.

Joe played 689 more minutes than Marvin and won only 0.2 more games for us.
Joe was extremely toxic in the reg. season.

The Bulls and other teams have been successful using players like Joe and then upping the ante with bench players The hope for Marvin is that we find him a 'Power 3' to play with and his WS/48 efficiency goes back up. Ideally Joe's would go up and the 'Power 3' aka 'Josh Pt.2' would be a 10% player & give us more depth, cut out the scrubs and generate more wins.

The 'Power 3' I've identified is Malcolm Thomas due to his guard skills, activity level and his being labeled a '4' led him to being drafted.

Joe's efficiency, measured here by WS/48 shrunk this year- hopefully due to the elbow injury and he recovers next year. Josh (15%- 11%) shrunk as well but that's another story...

I'll do the math later but its better to have a bunch of .100 (average) players and spread them out over the team than to be top heavy and play below average contributors.

Think the Kirk Hinrich + Tyrus Thomas Bulls. I'm still hoping for that Horford Motiejunas' low risk (Wins Wise )potential+filler trade

As I research these guys the Hawks have in minicamp, Harper and Hazell would be nice scoring guards off the bench.I like Harper better as a defender and rebounder(5 per game). Samhan could probably come in and be the best low post guy on the team. Thomas has a nice all around game despite not having a real jumper, but we don't need him to shoot anyway. Lighty and McCamey will be sought out heavily, but we defiently need to make a play for Lighty. McCamey would be nice as well, and can become Teague's backup after Hinrich leaves(Hopefully through a trade for a decent center).

Once our free agents become just that, I think the Hawks will have about 5 spots open. Sund is trying to bring back Collins, which isn't bad since Dwight Howard still exist in the league, so that leaves 4 more spots open. Lighty has impressed Drew in Day 1, so I think he will take a spot. Which leaves only 3 more spots. I think Samhan would fill a need in the low post for offense. Hawks also need a replacement scorer for Jamals spot, so Harper or Hazell should get a good look. McCamey like I say can always take over as the backup Point, if we can't retain Hinrich. Think we should just cut Rolle and give Thomas that last spot since Benson basically resembles him. Thomas can play the 3 as well, while Rolle would be in a position we are overhauled at(PF/C). Would rather just dump Marvin for a TPE and pick(s) though.

Depth Chart:

1-Hinrich/Teague/McCamey
2-Joe/Demonte Harper/Hinrich
3-Lighty/MarvinMalcolm Thomas
4-Josh/Benson/Malcolm Thomas
5-Al/Zaza/Samhan/Collins/

Think Teague would be better as a 6th man scorer as he just learns from Hinrich a bit more. Drew may look at going big every now and then, if needed. In that case, I would hope Samhan shows off enough low post skills to start in those situations. Think Lighty can start. with Marvin coming off the bench. A lot of rookies, but it's not like we can sign quality vets. Besides, this draft class purpose was meant for "Role Players".

My feeling is that we need to take some chances in order to adjust this roster to be more flexible. For example, I think we need to look into a trade using Hinrich and perhaps Smoove too in order to secure a solid C. I think it's safe to say that we're stuck with JJ and Marvin, so I think we should put more pressure on them by moving Smoove. A trade of that size could help us get a solid C and some role guys. This deal would also intentionally put the PG position solely on Teague's shoulders. Sign McCamey and also go get a vet PG to help with Teague's learning process.

One thought I had was to do a SnT with IND: Smoove (11.9 mil) & Hinrich (9.2 mil) for Ford, Posey, and Foster. It would give us a good energy C, and solid defender at SF, and Ford would be awesome as a starter or backup to Teague. Smoove would be awesome between Granger and Hibbert, and Hinrich would definitely makeup for losing Ford and give them a nice expiring to play with.

the hawks give up the two best players in that deal jag lol. and posey is done. so that is just straight getting rips

1-Jeff{13%} /Hinrich {13%}/McCamey
36mpg
[7.5wins]
2-Joe {13%} / Demonte Harper/Hinrich{5%}
36mpg
[7.5wins]

3-Lighty /Marvin {10%} Malcolm Thomas {13%}
--mpg

4-Josh {13%}[7.5wins] / Benson/ Malcolm Thomas {8%}
36mpg
[7.5wins]
5-Al {18%} /Zaza{12%} / Samhan (8%) /Collins { 5%}
36mpg
[10wins]

Lets say Joe recovers, Josh loses some lbs, Hinrich and Teague continue their playoff success.

Our starting lineup wins us 32.5/ 82 games and only 96 minutes per game left to distibute.
Zaza, is by far our best C once again. 6 guards on the team with Lighty starting.

Collins barely plays. Samhan is not stealing minutes from Zaza. Our frontcourt is nonexistent.

Lighty starting at SF? He's 6'6 200. That means the SGs will guard Joe not him.

That leaves an aging Joe as the SF on offense and also Teague now has no screeners lol.

How is Lighty. Josh and Al setting screens conducive to anything but jump shooting, AGAIN.

That "Detroit Model" is a small ball team just like 2008 and a second round exit at best, but I'm still interested in seeing how the "minutes" balance out.

bumpity bump

This is what the starting 5 should be
Teague
Johnson
Smith
Holford
Collins.

Bring marvin, tracy, kirk, and zaza off the bench.

The reason collins should start cause with the big line up we play better defense and we can win on the boards. With josh smith playing SF put him in the post and let him take advantage of his mismatch. When we play teams that dont have a good big man collins play only like 15 minutes. The one advantage the hawks have is there main players can play multiple positions and can cause match up problems. the problem is the hawks dont usually take advantage when they created a mismatch. like when holford is playing the 5 we should run. when u take advantage of mismatches on the court you cant dictate the way ur opponent play. The hawks need to bring in another big man that can be dependable.and get a 3 point specialist.

Its Al HoRford, not Holford.
- Josh Smith is good in the post "area". But #s show he is not very good in 1 on 1 situations.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k23thpZXXo[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgNGfEmiibM[/youtube]
versus this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPBAg-j_mTI[/youtube]


The problem is that the hawks need a big man (for defense) who can play outside (on defense).

For example if Marvin Williams were 7 feet tall and could box out bigs as such and could shoot 3s. We would have the best of both worlds. The guy would not have to do much.
IE if Jason Collins could run up and down change some shots on defense and the stand outside ala Rasheed and hit a 3. He would be seen as a star.

If you have Jason-Horford then 1 took Smiths spot. If you want Smith at the SF on defense you need either the PF or C to play outside.

Thats why I reccomend trades. Thats why Larry Drew shelves that lineup until we need it ie win or go home. lol.

I dont know what the minutes are going to be like and it looks like they'll vary based on matchups with the big teams like LA or ORL.

Josh smith did a real good job on the elite small forwards in the league. All the experts said smith surprised them with his lateral quickness. Thats why he lost weight this off season so he can be faster. on offense if u get him to understand just because u open you dont have to take the shot. he has great passing instincts and should utilize that more. The reason the marvin, smith, horford starting lineup will not work because we are giving up to much size on a daily basics. last year we lost a lot of games just because we were losing the rebound battle. if u win the rebound battle you have more field goal attemps. we dont need an elite center. We need someone who is going to block out, set picks, and take fouls. we need a center just to do dirty work. Since the hawks gave horford 60 Mil they don't want him taking that beating every night. thats why the knicks didnt want amare playing center. Collins is not the answer. the reason zaza dont start is they like the energy he brings off the bench. but if we dont get a better Center collins will have to start. I know its horford. Im front row at every game since 07

Somebody Lock this thread I really dont give a Sh** anymore. I just dont.
johnhollinger John Hollinger
“I feel like the Hawks signed Radmanovic solely to keep me entertained. I just hope they encourage him to”

Honestly, I feel pretty optimistic about this Hawks team. Vlads a shooter that LD wanted, and I think a guy like Michael Redd or Reggie Williams is still an option to lookout for.

A young PG like Wanamaker would be nice to groom as a back-up. Him and Sy should be able to handle that role til Kirk is back.

T Mac will hopefully be a better 6th man over Crawford in an overall sense. He is a better passer, rebounder, defender(at least in a physical sense), and probably still has some scoring ability still.

Collins has gotten himself in better shape, so maybe he will get some extra burn. LD has to play Him, Zaza, and Horford as a consistent rotation in the frontcourt on a nightly basis. Horford should see lesser minutes at the 5 this year.

Would like to see Rolle find a niche as maybe an energy 4.

Confident Teague will make a run at MIPY.

A healthy Joe and Marvin will both have something to prove. Hopefully Josh goes back to the 09-10 version of himself. More assist, lesser jump shots, but scores more. I just hope Al continues to be an effective spot up shooter.

Overall, this team looks to be more balance than ever, and might can make a push for the ECF.