RealGM

I don't know if this is selling low or what this is but let's start the list in the Hawks COMMUNITY board and then post it in T & T.

Horford is tremendously easy to complement, all you need is a C who can play down low. Thus, you're looking to trade Josh Smith for a guy like: (^^)

IND
- Roy Hibbert^^
NJN
- Brook Lopez^^
>Josh Smith for Brook Lopez, Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar(lure Dwight; "Josh's list")
MIL
- Andrew Bogut^^
OKC
- Perkins+ filler^^
LAL
-Andrew Bynum
>Smith+Pachulia+Hinrich =Bynum, Blake, Walton (DerrickNoah)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1130902
NOH
-Okafor
>Josh/Marvin for Okafor/Ariza + a 2nd, or
>Josh for Okafor and a conditional first.

PHO
- Gortat+ filler^^
>Gortat + Pietrus
-Robin Lopez + filler
>Josh Smith, TPE + filler for Vince Carter, Robin Lopez, Markieff Morris
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1131092 (azuresou1)
- ?

Objective: Find Horford a Complement; Josh Smith for a True Center!

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Separate Topic:
I think the +filler is ignorant of the NBA trade economics/market. And ironic seeing how his own fans downplay his past seasons and harp on his shot selection, as an undersized 4.
Also ironic Hawks FO reportedly tried to trade Smith for Kanter, a guy who projects as a better version of Horford and his best case would result in moving Al so he could be our PF of the future!
But my own IQ has been personally called into question by more than a few Mods and poster so whatever. We'll see who's right after this trade thread.

Objective: Find Horford a Complement; Josh Smith for a True Center!

=============
Separate Topic:
I'd also like to say I found at least 1 NBA franchise that saw Smith's skillset and size as an SF role player. Also I'd rather have Motiejunas's skillset and successful size (7 foot PFs shoot over defenses if left open) wingspan (6'11 bigs develop this due to short wingspan) to offset Smith's skillset. Natural fit to me.

Ruhiel wrote:I don't know if this is selling low or what this is but let's start the list in the Hawks COMMUNITY board and then post it in T & T.

Horford is tremendously easy to complement, all you need is a C who can play down low. Thus, you're looking to trade Josh Smith for a guy like: (^^)

- Roy Hibbert^^
- Brook Lopez^^
- Andrew Bogut^^
- Gortat+ filler^^
- Perkins+ filler^^
- ?
- ?

Objective: Find Horford a Complement; Josh Smith for a True Center!

=============
Separate Topic:
I think the +filler is ignorant of the NBA trade economics/market. And ironic seeing how his own fans downplay his past seasons and harp on his shot selection, as an undersized 4.
Also ironic Hawks FO reportedly tried to trade Smith for Kanter, a guy who projects as a better version of Horford and his best case would result in moving Al so he could be our PF of the future!
But my own IQ has been personally called into question by more than a few Mods and poster so whatever. We'll see who's right after this trade thread.

Objective: Find Horford a Complement; Josh Smith for a True Center!

=============
Separate Topic:
I'd also like to say I found at least 1 NBA franchise that saw Smith's skillset and size as an SF role player. Also I'd rather have Motiejunas's skillset and successful size (7 foot PFs shoot over defenses if left open) wingspan (6'11 bigs develop this due to short wingspan) to offset Smith's skillset. Natural fit to me.

Ruhiel...... I like your passion for the Hawks. and I can tell you are a true Hawks fan..... so I like you already. but what I believe you fail at is that you don't think of the other teams in your trade ideas and/or you fall in love and put to much stock on unproven players. you will not be able to get any true center like the ones you named for Josh Smith.... it wouldn't make any since for them to do so. Josh would not make them any better once they lose there starting center, except for maybe Phoenix, but I would not trade Smoove for Gortat anyway.

what we need if we are going to move Horford is Pau Gasol or maybe Bogut. that is about the only centers that I could see us getting for Horford that would be worth trading him unless we could move Horford and Teague for Westbrook and Ibaka and Nazr. I am not trying to make this a trade Horford over Josh but I just don't feel we can get what we need by trading Smoove alone. I would love to keep both and try to get Bargs and or the guy you are in love with Thabeet, or Robin Lopez.

those are the only trades I would try though, if we can not swing something like this we need to just keep both and try to bring some bigs in and see how Benson develops.

- Roy Hibbert^^
- Brook Lopez^^
- Andrew Bogut^^
- Gortat+ filler^^
- Perkins+ filler^^

We won't be able to acquire any of those players for Josh Smith. Kendrick Perkins would possibly be the easiest to acquire, but OKC has no need for Josh Smith, and the only way I think they'd trade Kendrick Perkins to us for Josh Smith is if they had another deal in place. Also, if they feel Perkins off the court issues, and injury issues are going to become a concern for the future.

Josh Smith for Brook Lopez, Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar. We get a starting C and backup SF and PG, NJ sheds some bad contracts while retaining space for Dwight and getting his best friend.

azuresou1 wrote:Josh Smith for Brook Lopez, Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar. We get a starting C and backup SF and PG, NJ sheds some bad contracts while retaining space for Dwight and getting his best friend.

- lost Josh Smith
- gained "bad contracts" financially
- gained "bad contracts" oncourt performance wise
- NJN retain cap space, worst case they add Dwight
+ gained a starting C

No way is Brook Lopez is not that good to overcome all those negatives. Then as I mentioned before we have to resign him for what? For a guy who has to be hidden on defense?
Joe Johnson?

Clear advantage for New Jersey fan's perspective but what is the advantage for Atlanta? That is clearly negative value tangibly and intangibly.

myrak433 wrote:Ruhiel...... I like your passion for the Hawks. and I can tell you are a true Hawks fan..... so I like you already.

Thanks appreciate it.

but what I believe you fail at is that you don't think of the other teams in your trade ideas

well the Houston trade was well recieved even if Al is stuck at the 5 so idk what you mean by that!

and/or you fall in love and put to much stock on unproven players. you will not be able to get any true center like the ones you named for Josh Smith.... it wouldn't make any since for them to do so. Josh would not make them any better once they lose there starting center, except for maybe Phoenix, but I would not trade Smoove for Gortat anyway.

I repeat, Like I said in the OP these are not my trade ideas.........

ruhiel wrote:I think the +filler is ignorant of the NBA trade economics/market. And ironic seeing how his own fans downplay his past seasons and harp on his shot selection, as an undersized 4.

what we need if we are going to move Horford is Pau Gasol or maybe Bogut. that is about the only centers that I could see us getting for Horford that would be worth trading him unless we could move Horford and Teague for Westbrook and Ibaka and Nazr.

Horford + Marvin + Smith
Collins + Horford* + Smith* ; *not compatible in halfcourt
Gasol + Marvin + Smith
Bogut + Marvin + Smith

This is not about which center* is equal value or a bigger name than Horford this is about fixing the roster.
Marvin's # in the frontcourt is always called and he doesn't show the ball handling to dominate his matchup and furthermore gets punished on switches.

With a lighter Smith (235lbs) + Motiejunas (7'0.5" 235lbs) starting ideally Smith is able to face up in the post against even centers and Motiejunas was posting up Xavier Henry when both were 220 lb 18yo.

I am not trying to make this a trade Horford over Josh but I just don't feel we can get what we need by trading Smoove alone. I would love to keep both and try to get Bargs and or the guy you are in love with Thabeet, or Robin Lopez.

"Bargs" is not available for Marvin and Raptors are rebuilding/tanking for the 2012 SF-heavy Draft we've gone over this numerous times.

myrak wrote: if we can not swing something like this we need to just keep both and try to bring some bigs in and see how Benson develops.

and/or you fall in love and put to much stock on unproven players.

And Benson has 0 years of NBA experience and is expected to fix the roster?:
- Thabeet (proven 270 lb. Dwight stopper; Taj Gibson; Joel Anthony; Omer Asik; proven his length and weight translates to problems for these guys; can occasionaly score off PF switches ie Dirk and lobs)
- Hill (proven his length and excellent backup who can be a starter if injury occurs)
- Motiejunas (main problem was teams wanting a big man want a long Center; he's got the wingspan of a small forward; professional player overseas; World Summit)
- Marvin Williams to SG (proven)

- Malcolm Thomas is pretty much the only "unproven" player yet he's been competing in the Drew League with NBA players since at least 2008.
The # of 7'2 wingspan bigs is extremely small and its obvious we should snatch him up. 12mpg defend and score 5ppg + 2rpg is easily accomplished by rookies.

Zaza, Hasheem and Al's rebounding= 16%.
Basically in the 10-Man Model no one has to be a major scorer every night. Its just pressure release based on matchups. Joe will have it some nights, skinny Smith some nights, Motiejunas size at PF a lot of nights.

Id say his stretch ability to see and shoot over wings and speed and same ability to see over bigs is proven.
Basically in 10 man Model f Motiejunas's offense and rebounding is as good as Hakim Warrick's we have just fixed the Atlanta Hawks roster.

A Bogut for Horford trade leaves Smith as your best passer/creator and Marvin as the pressure release. a stretch PF must be added and then contracts dont match up and we end up taking negative contracts.

Ruhiel wrote:

azuresou1 wrote:Josh Smith for Brook Lopez, Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmar. We get a starting C and backup SF and PG, NJ sheds some bad contracts while retaining space for Dwight and getting his best friend.

- lost Josh Smith
- gained "bad contracts" financially
- gained "bad contracts" oncourt performance wise
- NJN retain cap space, worst case they add Dwight
+ gained a starting C

No way is Brook Lopez is not that good to overcome all those negatives. Then as I mentioned before we have to resign him for what? For a guy who has to be hidden on defense?
Joe Johnson?

Clear advantage for New Jersey fan's perspective but what is the advantage for Atlanta? That is clearly negative value tangibly and intangibly.

Brook Lopez is still a promising big man that has value. His shoulder injury kept him from being aggressive on defense this past season. I think we would consider the trade "azuresou1" proposed. Jordan Farmer and Travis Outlaw are far from being the ideal players I want on our team, but they both would provide us with some depth off our bench, so I think that's another reason why we would consider it.

We apparently shopped Josh Smith around the time of the draft for a top 5 pick (laughable). It was rumored by different sources that we had an interest in Enes Kanter. So, why would we not trade Josh Smith for Brook Lopez if it meant we take on two players that are signed for 2 and 3 seasons? Depending on the lockout 1/2 seasons.

Why would we not? Or why should we not?

Point was NJN potential> Lopez +Horford+ Marvin/"Outlaw".
At any rate the Brook Lopez trade has already been added.

any others?

Gortat (Polish Hammer) + Peitrus for Josh Smith.

That gives us a starting center and a back-up maybe starting SF. Gortat has 3 years left on his contract and Peitrus only has a year. Gortat is beast! He just never got the opportunity to play behind Dwight. I think he could average 15pts and 10rbs and 1-2 blocks per 34 minutes. He averaged 13 pts, 9.3 rbs, and 1.3 blocks in 29.7 minutes in PHX.

I think it works for the Suns if they are going to keep steve nash. Josh will be getting easy points off of steve nash's passing. It also give the Suns an exciting players to watch. I'm sure Josh's number will bloom if he joined steve nash. The suns already have a center, Robin Lopez, who started when Gortat was there. I think it makes sense for the Suns.

I personally don't like the Lopez/Farmar/Outlaw trade because Outlaw is owed 7 million each year for the next 4 years... Does that sound strangely similar to Marvin's contract? That is a terrible contract to take on. I would much rather watch Josh take contested 3 pointers and drive into traffic with nowhere to go then see Outlaw and Marvin on the hawks bench.

But could you imagine Dwight, Josh and D-will on the same team. Ohh man. They just need to surround them with a shooter and a defensive SF and they would be insane to watch.

Hawk4Playoffs wrote:Gortat (Polish Hammer) + Peitrus for Josh Smith.
That gives us a starting center and a back-up maybe starting SF. Gortat has 3 years left on his contract and Peitrus only has a year. Gortat is beast! He just never got the opportunity to play behind Dwight. I think he could average 15pts and 10rbs and 1-2 blocks per 34 minutes. He averaged 13 pts, 9.3 rbs, and 1.3 blocks in 29.7 minutes in PHX.

And PHO trades him because Josh is "exciting".

I think it works for the Suns if they are going to keep steve nash. Josh will be getting easy points off of steve nash's passing. It also give the Suns an exciting players to watch. I'm sure Josh's number will bloom if he joined steve nash. The suns already have a center, Robin Lopez, who started when Gortat was there. I think it makes sense for the Suns.

"If they keep Nash"? Nash barely plays 30mpg anymore.
After Nash retires Josh Smith is their best player by far. And Aaron Brooks is a phenomenal shooter but undersized I would not wish that on anyone.

That trade would be extremely short sighted. PHO window closed as late as when Amare demanded $100 million then walked.
Nonetheless Pietrus as filler is added.

I personally don't like the Lopez/Farmar/Outlaw trade because Outlaw is owed 7 million each year for the next 4 years... Does that sound strangely similar to Marvin's contract? That is a terrible contract to take on. I would much rather watch Josh take contested 3 pointers and drive into traffic with nowhere to go then see Outlaw and Marvin on the hawks bench.

:eyeroll: then PHO would take Gortat's #s than seeing Josh take "contested 3s. "Drive into traffic with nowhere to go".
82 games had Smith at 15 charges. Johnson had 28. For Smith to "drive into traffic with nowhere to go" He'd have to have beat someone off the dribble like a person with Joe's low dribble has.
Against whom is Smith driving into traffic with nowhere to go?

But could you imagine Dwight, Josh and D-will on the same team. Ohh man. They just need to surround them with a shooter and a defensive SF and they would be insane to watch.

Great for the Nets viewership. The organized chaos of the Nets while
Hawks would be more boring and just as methodical and have Farmar and Outlaw in the rotation.

All trades have been added.

The suns trade 2 bench players (Gortat and Pietrus) and receive a starter. I think having Smoove over Hakim Warrick is an upgrade. You make it sound like its a one sided deal. Anybody besides Ruhiel have anything to say?

Gortat+ or R.Lopez++ should be very doable for Josh.

Hawk4Playoffs wrote:The suns trade 2 bench players (Gortat and Pietrus) and receive a starter. I think having Smoove over Hakim Warrick is an upgrade. You make it sound like its a one sided deal. Anybody besides Ruhiel have anything to say?

Gortat was playing starting-center minutes in Phoenix.

azuresou1 wrote:Gortat+ or R.Lopez++ should be very doable for Josh.

Gortat+ probably not. Ship off a backup in Robin Lopez. Not sure how Robin helps Horford's offense but he's been added.

Hawk4Playoffs wrote:The suns trade 2 bench players (Gortat and Pietrus) and receive a starter. I think having Smoove over Hakim Warrick is an upgrade. You make it sound like its a one sided deal. Anybody besides Ruhiel have anything to say?

If Phoenix views Gortat as just a bench players we should start discussing a trade with them as soon as the lockout ends. Maybe we can get him for less but I doubt it. I've mentioned Gortat on here before and it involved Josh Smith. I would no question trade Josh Smith straight up for Marcin Gortat if it was possible, but salary would need to be added, and I would support any Phoenix player as a filler as long as it's not Josh Childress. They adore Channing Frye and Jared Dudley.

Marcin Gortat should be able to average a double-double and average 1.5 blocks per game. Without looking at his free throw numbers, I believe he had a decent average for a big, and his nose has been broken a couple times for effort.

I would think Gortat/Warrick, or Robin Lopez/Morris/Pietrus/Warrick + a pick would be close to value.

Alternately there's like a million variations on the Josh for Bynum scenario.

azuresou1 wrote:I would think Gortat/Warrick, or Robin Lopez/Morris/Pietrus/Warrick + a pick would be close to value.

Yeah more likely Gortat is off the table but we'll see. And "close to value" is no way to make these trades. The point is to fix the roster. Get players with potential to cumulatively be better than Josh Smith.
Pietrus is nearing 30 iirc. Once you add picks its basically a cop out that the potential to complement Al has not even been drafted yet.

NONETHELESS, trade added

azuresou1 wrote:Alternately there's like a million variations on the Josh for Bynum scenario.

this has been covered. You'd have to blow up the bench and take back bad contracts and Lakers still might not want to shrink their frontcourt.
Nonetheless added.

Robin Lopez is still young, Markieff Morris is an aggressive rookie big man, Pietrus/Warrick are quality if they're coming off your bench, and a pick is a pick.

A crazy idea popped into my head:

Josh Smith, TPE + filler (e.g. Damien Wilkins + Hilton Armstrong) for Vince Carter, Robin Lopez, Markieff Morris. Phoenix gets out of paying $4MM to cut Vince Carter while not giving up Pietrus/Warrick - not sure how much they value those guys. We get a starting C, a backup young big man, and we can either start VC at the 3 or have him come off the bench.