RealGM

Atlanta has explored trades, Josh Smith gave them his preferred team list last season, but Atlanta will only trade him for the right return. It was reported that they wanted a top 5 pick from this past draft for him, and Minnesota apparently declined.

Would you keep him, extended him after the 2012/2013 season, or trade him?

Salary:
$12,500,000
$13,300,000

Preferred List:
Boston
Orlando
Houston
New Jersey

I'd trade him, I don't think he's someone you can win with being your 2nd or 3rd best player.

Depends on what Atlanta is getting back. From where I'm sitting, they need a center so Horford can slide down to the four. If center is a criteria, then that pretty much elimates Smith's list. Had Orlando not traded Marcin Gortat to Phoenix, then I could have seen something happening there, but they did.

One of the most talented players in the league.
A tweener.
A defensive anchor when he's in shape.
Has the ability to dominate a game.
A very good rebounder.
A good team defender.
Elite help side defender.
So talented, he can really do a bit of everything on offense and defense.

The issues:
Low offensive bbiq. Yes he knows where to be better than anyone on the team but it his shot selection, lack of movement in the half court setting, decision making at times that bite him in the butt.
Consistency- He's too inconsistent and not like Joe but to an extreme level. One night he's like Lebron the next he's like a scrub and takes you out of a game.
He doesn't know his limitations.
Emotions, has trouble controlling them, not to Dwight's degree but unless Dwight, Josh emotions affects his game. One missed call and Josh might be mad for the next two QT's.
Has trouble creating his own shot consistently and is not a #1 option.

He's a very good player. An uptempo PF who can also play SF. He's a good enough post defender where he can play PF at this stage of his career. He can put up huge numbers on a bad team. Would be best with a PG like Steve Nash. Uptempo wizard. I wouldn't trade him unless I received a very good deal. Atlanta is limited in cap space so they can't take a discount for Smith.

Due to the team's economics it's doubtful he's extended past 2013 and from the looks of it that would be a welcome move by Smith but as far as sending him to his desired location.......well interest in him is low now as opposed to two years prior yet management still believes that he warrants top dollar return so factor in that those teams may not actually have the desirable assets I say he's kept for this shortened season and then attempted to be moved again on draft night when there is a clearer picture of team's needs and picks and he value is boosted by him being an expiring.

Josh Smith to the Nets for Brook Lopez. Calling it.

MaceCase wrote:Due to the team's economics it's doubtful he's extended past 2013 and from the looks of it that would be a welcome move by Smith but as far as sending him to his desired location.......well interest in him is low now as opposed to two years prior yet management still believes that he warrants top dollar return so factor in that those teams may not actually have the desirable assets I say he's kept for this shortened season and then attempted to be moved again on draft night when there is a clearer picture of team's needs and picks and he value is boosted by him being an expiring.

They will likely ext him.

Orlando would probably trade anybody not named Howard for him. The problem with that, however, is that our assets suck.

Seems to me like Denver for Nene would make sense as a starting point if the Nuggets are looking to move him. I'd think that Smith may thrive in the uptempo style Denver wants to play and Horford/Nene would make a very strong frontline in Atlanta.

killbuckner wrote:Seems to me like Denver for Nene would make sense as a starting point if the Nuggets are looking to move him. I'd think that Smith may thrive in the uptempo style Denver wants to play and Horford/Nene would make a very strong frontline in Atlanta.

Nene wants max, Hawks can't afford that.

#1 pick wrote:

MaceCase wrote:Due to the team's economics it's doubtful he's extended past 2013 and from the looks of it that would be a welcome move by Smith but as far as sending him to his desired location.......well interest in him is low now as opposed to two years prior yet management still believes that he warrants top dollar return so factor in that those teams may not actually have the desirable assets I say he's kept for this shortened season and then attempted to be moved again on draft night when there is a clearer picture of team's needs and picks and he value is boosted by him being an expiring.

They will likely ext him.

Why and how? If they are entertaining trading him why would they turn around and lock him up for 4-5 more years?

MaceCase wrote:

#1 pick wrote:

MaceCase wrote:Due to the team's economics it's doubtful he's extended past 2013 and from the looks of it that would be a welcome move by Smith but as far as sending him to his desired location.......well interest in him is low now as opposed to two years prior yet management still believes that he warrants top dollar return so factor in that those teams may not actually have the desirable assets I say he's kept for this shortened season and then attempted to be moved again on draft night when there is a clearer picture of team's needs and picks and he value is boosted by him being an expiring.

They will likely ext him.

Why and how? If they are entertaining trading him why would they turn around and lock him up for 4-5 more years?

They are trying to find a way to get better. What's wrong with that?

If they can't trade him, they might as well keep him unless they get worst and it's time for a change.

3 way involving Nene S/T

killbuckner wrote:Seems to me like Denver for Nene would make sense as a starting point if the Nuggets are looking to move him. I'd think that Smith may thrive in the uptempo style Denver wants to play and Horford/Nene would make a very strong frontline in Atlanta.

Danilo Gallinari appeals to him. I'd like to see Atlanta acquire him and Nene would be an added bonus depending on what Atlanta would need to include (future considerations). Nene possibly is silently keeping Denver as an option but none of the reports I have read suggest it.

For me, i will be calling NOH about this to see if we can pack Josh Smith, Jeff Teague, couple of draft picks and maybe one or two more players to see if we can be the one that can take Chris Paul off their hands.

Before I hear, "oh CPIII isnt going to ATL" or "He isnt going to resigned with them" (ESPN has say that Atlanta is one of the places that Paul would sign with long term with), just check this out. Right now, Hawks needs three things, more butts in seats, a true leader, and a face of this team and Chris Paul can do all three of them. Plus JJ doesnt have to be the main guy like when he was still with the Suns (BUT FOR HIS CONTRACT, THAT IS ANOTHER STORY). Sure we have to give up JS, Teague and other pieces but for a chance to have a game-changer like this on your team comes one in the million. Plus we Atlanta fans has been stuggling to find a true face of this team like somebody like Nique.

I know that it possibity is very low, since we got that DASG as owners but in reality, there isnt too many teams that will have the pieces that the Hawks need to get passed the second round for Smith service.

53 wins to 44 is not getting "worst"? Late round pick and a busted center returns at best.


They are not trying to find a way to get better. They are trying to find a way to get #1 players by trading their #2/#3 player in Smith.

They are trying to find a way to get bigger while making another team smaller.

They are trying to find a way to make a team look stupider than them. They are not negotiating in good faith. Horford is the only one that will get anything close to fair trade value and is fair for what they are asking (to improve they need a Dwight stopper and a perimeter PF to erase the Josh Smith on the perimeter debacle or a great SF to erase the Marvin Williams and undersized fiascos).

At some point I think you have to get what you can for Josh. Another big contract would hedge on him playing smarter because his physical advantages can't last forever (see Shawn Marion's drop off as a guideling) and having a position to use him long term. I would suspect that we've gone about as far as we can in the playoffs with Josh at PF and Al at center unless Marvin improves or Josh plays smarter or improves. Our most successful lineup last year had him at SF. Josh staying at PF requires him to be more of a consistent post offensive threat. Other than that he's got to should better from distance to be a stretch four.

Looking at Josh at SF, he's got to improve the shooting here as well and he's got to play smart defense to overcome an exploitable deficiency in lateral quickness. The bigger problem is that we may need SF to accommodate another player. With Joe's huge contract it is possible that after 2013 that we have Joe at SF to squeeze better matchups for him as his age and contract increase. Josh winds up as a very talented odd man out.

evildallas wrote:At some point I think you have to get what you can for Josh. Another big contract would hedge on him playing smarter because his physical advantages can't last forever (see Shawn Marion's drop off as a guideling) and having a position to use him long term. I would suspect that we've gone about as far as we can in the playoffs with Josh at PF and Al at center unless Marvin improves or Josh plays smarter or improves. Our most successful lineup last year had him at SF. Josh staying at PF requires him to be more of a consistent post offensive threat. Other than that he's got to should better from distance to be a stretch four.

Looking at Josh at SF, he's got to improve the shooting here as well and he's got to play smart defense to overcome an exploitable deficiency in lateral quickness. The bigger problem is that we may need SF to accommodate another player. With Joe's huge contract it is possible that after 2013 that we have Joe at SF to squeeze better matchups for him as his age and contract increase. Josh winds up as a very talented odd man out.

Josh doesn't rely on athleticism as much as Marion did. Smith has a lot more talent. Smith issues are completely different. Plus Marion is a much smart player than Smith on offense.

Josh does rely on [raw] athleticism much more than Marion does.

Marion is/was smaller, nimbler quicker and better touch off the dribble. When's the last time you've seen Josh toss up a floater? Or beat someone off a screen, turn around with a hook shot or a dunk?

Here is old Shawn Marion in DAL vs Carmelo's defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbw6euxIGvU

Josh has more power I guess, more size, more comfy to standstill, worse touch off the bounce, worse handle because Shawn is quick and has spin moves shoots a floater, Josh is a tad slower (built like a tank like Lebron) with the handle and ends up with shots he cant hit like fadeaways in isolation and is not as good off screens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQKtjLcf_e0

Marion passes less but is smaller and naturally faster. More finesse. And gets those quick unorthodox shots.

Josh is taller and dribbles higher, Shawn is smaller and has a better handle and is generally more efficient with the rock. Smith is a beast rolling to the basket or on the baseline drive and kick with Teague or Joe he gets fouled at an exorbitant rate. exorbitant

Ruhiel wrote:Josh does rely on [raw] athleticism much more than Marion does.

Marion is/was smaller, nimbler quicker and better touch off the dribble. When's the last time you've seen Josh toss up a floater? Or beat someone off a screen, turn around with a hook shot or a dunk?

Here is old Shawn Marion in DAL vs Carmelo's defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbw6euxIGvU

Josh has more power I guess, more size, more comfy to standstill, worse touch off the bounce, worse handle because Shawn is quick and has spin moves shoots a floater, Josh is a tad slower (built like a tank like Lebron) with the handle and ends up with shots he cant hit like fadeaways in isolation and is not as good off screens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQKtjLcf_e0

Marion passes less but is smaller and naturally faster. More finesse. And gets those quick unorthodox shots.

Josh is taller and dribbles higher, Shawn is smaller and has a better handle and is generally more efficient with the rock. Smith is a beast rolling to the basket or on the baseline drive and kick with Teague or Joe he gets fouled at an exorbitant rate. exorbitant

Josh is not a beast rolling to the basket and that's a screener fyi which was a great play at the time. Screeners are extremely hard to do, it takes a defensive mistake for them to work. High IQ team can do it all day like the Sac Kings with C. Webb. But anywoo, I wish you would stop replying to my post. You don't ever know what you are talking about. I been watching and doing my job for years and you always sound like a kid who doesn't know what he's talking about but you have some long winded comment with youtube clips that you claim is your source.

Smith does not rely on athletcism as much as Marion. Why? Because he is far more talented. Smith got fat at didn't have elite athletcism last year, did he fall off? No, why because he is talented. Now Marion fell off when he lost his, why? Because his offense is based off of movement, athletcism, and timing. He still has excellent movement but his lost of athletcism killed his impact why it hurt Josh on defense but no much else where.

If you are going to use youtube video as a source, then why isn't O.J. Mayo a superstar? Why isn't J.R. Smith an top tier SG. youtube is a terrible source. You need to watch the game, take notes, look at the movement of player and that should help you from here. I know I am hard on you but something you can't come to me with nonsense and act like I will just look at it and smile. I got years of notes and you post a youtube highlight and say that's proof. Do you realize how idiotic that is? You could be good at this too. You seems to have an understanding of measureables but a terrible understanding of skills and the importance of motion. You don't understand words yet either. I seen your post where you said Smith and Teague are PnR players. That was the dumbest sh.. I've heard yet. But you can learn. I will help just a tad.

PG:
You have...

Disturbutors- Andre Miller, Rondo, Felton, etc. What these players have is great bbiq, great decision making skills, and they are excellent passers.

Scoring PG: Rose, Arenas, Westbrook, etc. What these players have is an excellent knack to score. Generally are great scorers. They have good enough passing skills to play PG but not enough to create for others. Might have been SG previously.

Shooting PG: Bibby, Curry, Billups, etc. What these players have is an excellent knack of shooting. Generally are great shooters. They have good enough passing skills to play PG but not enough to create for others. Might have been SG previously.

Defensive PG: Hinrich, young Fisher, etc. These are PG who play very good or great defense. They have good enough passing skills to play PG but not enough to create for others. Might have been SG previously.

PnR PG: Paul, Deron, Rubio, etc: These are half court wizards. They generally have elite court vision, elite passing skills, high bbiq, and excellent decision making skills. In order to be elite, you must be able to shooting, abilty to slash as well as all the above. You must be impossible to be stopped using PnR.

Playmaker PG: Paul, Nash, Deron, Rose, etc: This is a player who makes has team better by his passing or his scoring. Rose makes his team better by his scoring. He can carry the load and put the team on his back. He will not make anyone better from an offensive standpoint but he can it easier for everyone in terms of responsibility. Paul and Deron makes it easier for everyone. Gives great passes, puts the player in a great position to score if the player is attentive and can carry a team. Not as talented as Rose in terms of scoring but can help others score.

Hinrich: Defensive PG
Teague: Scoring PG
Sy: Defensive PG

You can do the rest.

Joe: All around SG
Marvin: Defensive SF
Josh Smith: Defensive PF
Horford: PnR PF
Zaza: Faceup C

It's simple but it's the easiest way to start. Ask others, don't just assume and learn from others also helps.