Kirk Hinrich Trade Revisited-It Continues to Get Worse

[Superiorblogman]

Listen guys, I don't intend to be negative. I am a Hawks fan. I love the players for the most part, but the decision making within the organization is only slightly above the door-mats and laughing-stocks of the NBA.

Our last horrible move was trading essentially 2 1st round picks and taking on slightly more salary for Kirk Hinrich who really has done about as much as minimum salary guy Jason Collins for the Hawks. People will try and give Kirk more credit than he deserves for us beating Orlando,but let's be honest without Jason Collins leading the way and sacrificing his body against Superman we probably would not have made it, not anything that Kirk did.

Jordan Crawford is the perfect offensive replacement for Jamal Crawford. He can give you 15 a game and he can play a little backup PG. Someone tell me that is not what we need right now? Chris Singleton if that is the route we would have taken is possibly the best defensive rookie you will see this year. Someone tell me that he would not have made it easier to amnesty Marvin and use the mid-level exception on a more important piece without going into luxury. If we don't make that trade this is what we could currently be looking like.

PG Teague/Bibby (remember he still had a year left on his contract until he was bought out by Washington
SG Joe/Jordan/Pape
SF Josh/Marvin/Singleton
PF Al/Magnum/Keith Benson
C Jason Collins/Zaza/

There is your minimum of 13 players with basically the same payroll as we have now. I am not talking hindsight either because I was amongst the most vocal about this trade being as horrible as re-signing Marvin from the minute it broke. The trade was horrible IMO.

Conclusion, we would be better off getting Sund out of office and ASG potentially gone before making any more trades if this is the best they can do when it comes to having basketball knowledge.

[Ruhiel]

The biggest problems I see is Jason Collins who played under 600 minutes last year is your starting center... and Josh Smith is still your 3rd best perimeter player. behind Joe and the still learning Jeff he will be called on to make perimeter plays.

Marvin should never have been drafted. You had Smith, you had Childress in 2004... Now you have Smith who is a tweener:

Defense | Offense
SF | inside: Josh Smith

Jason Collins is your 12mpg center (Hawks have no center), Horford wants to defend the 4, Smith is your best perimeter forward, Horford can't score the way we thought he could, no competitive offers available for Smith.no competitive offers available for Marvin.no competitive offers available for Joe Johnson...

[Superiorblogman]

The biggest problems I see is Jason Collins who played under 600 minutes last year is your starting center... and Josh Smith is still your 3rd best perimeter player. behind Joe and the still learning Jeff he will be called on to make perimeter plays.

Marvin should never have been drafted. You had Smith, you had Childress in 2004... Now you have Smith who is a tweener:

Defense | Offense
SF | inside: Josh Smith

Jason Collins is your 12mpg center (Hawks have no center), Horford wants to defend the 4, Smith is your best perimeter forward, Horford can't score the way we thought he could, no competitive offers available for Smith.no competitive offers available for Marvin.no competitive offers available for Joe Johnson...

Absolutely none of that has anything to do with us giving away 2 potential future contributors in Jordan and a top 20 draft pick plus taking on more salary for Kirk Hinrich. We would be at 13 guys with the mid-level exception to offer a piece right now without Kirk Hinrich.

[myrak433]

First that line up would have us as an 8th seed in the east an a first round exit, if we were that lucky. But as far as the Kirk trade I didn't like it and liked it. Kirk is clearly the better player than Jordan now. Jordan Crawford does have the potential to be better than Kirk ever was. but who is to say he will ever reach his potential? and if he does, how long will it take?
You see that is the problem the Hawks are not a rebuilding team. they needed someone to come in and run the point now. bibby wasn't getting it done. Teague wasn't getting it done at the time of the trade. so it was a good trade at the time. it is still a good trade now.

you only want Jordon Crawford on the team now. but he just wasn't going to get any burn with JJ, Jamal Crawford and Teague the hawks number one pick.

[Superiorblogman]

First that line up would have us as an 8th seed in the east an a first round exit, if we were that lucky. But as far as the Kirk trade I didn't like it and liked it. Kirk is clearly the better player than Jordan now. Jordan Crawford does have the potential to be better than Kirk ever was. but who is to say he will ever reach his potential? and if he does, how long will it take?
You see that is the problem the Hawks are not a rebuilding team. they needed someone to come in and run the point now. bibby wasn't getting it done. Teague wasn't getting it done at the time of the trade. so it was a good trade at the time. it is still a good trade now.

you only want Jordon Crawford on the team now. but he just wasn't going to get any burn with JJ, Jamal Crawford and Teague the hawks number one pick.

That is a shallow approach IMO. Kirk isn't and was never leading us anywhere worth speaking of. The goal coming into last year was supposedly ECFinals and we still have not seen that. I suggest and suppose that is still the goal and a lineup with Jordan replacing a Jamal that we knew we would not be able to sign and our 1st round pick would have us just as close to the ECFinals as a lineup with Kirk.

Current:

Teague/Kirk/
Joe/Pape
Josh/Marvin/assuming Damien
Al/Rolle/Benson
Zaza/assuming Collins

That team is not getting us to ECFinals and there is minimum growth to be had there.

Without that trade:

Teague/Bibby/
Joe/Jordan/Pape
Josh/Marvin/assuming Chris Singleton could have went several ways
Al/Rolle/Benson
Zaza/Collins assuming

That team is not getting us to ECFinals but there are 3 spots for growth there. Jeff, Jordan, and the 1st round selection.

I can't see how someone would rather have Kirk and not reach your goal over having 3 guys that could really be strong contributors and we still not reach our goal.

To me you set goals as a baseline for everything you do. So, being that Kirk was never gonna help us reach our goal it was and is a bad move. 3 guys with potential to grow like Jeff, Jordan, and the 1st round pick are closer to the goal of ECFinals than Kirk got us.

[Ruhiel]

Without that trade:

Teague/Bibby/
Joe/Jordan/Pape
Josh/Marvin/assuming Chris Singleton could have went several ways
Al/Rolle/Benson
Zaza/Collins assuming


You have to fill out those minutes man. Playing small ball is an easy way to put floor balance and a decent product on the floor.

Zaza and Collins 48 minutes per game? Collins barely played 500 minutes. He was always hurt or useless because of his lack of speed.

Its not that easy.

[Ruhiel]

The Hawks were desperate. Bibby was starting over Teague if you remember. Sund was desperate and I guess the perception was that Hinrich was some defensive stalwart vet.

His defense looked like treasure compared to Bibby. WAS held out. Hawks slumped. Sund went for the deal. You're assuming Teague took Bibby's spot. If you take out Bibby for Kirk against Jameer? I doubt it.
He felt pressure to improve and went with the popular player on the market. Kirk turned out to be overrated/past his prime.
He should have kept the pick but I sort of understand why his dumb@ss did it.

[Superiorblogman]

The Hawks were desperate. Bibby was starting over Teague if you remember. Sund was desperate and I guess the perception was that Hinrich was some defensive stalwart vet.

His defense looked like treasure compared to Bibby. WAS held out. Hawks slumped. Sund went for the deal. You're assuming Teague took Bibby's spot. If you take out Bibby for Kirk against Jameer? I doubt it.
He felt pressure to improve and went with the popular player on the market. Kirk turned out to be overrated/past his prime.
He should have kept the pick but I sort of understand why his dumb@ss did it.

No mercy over here, that was a bush-league move. They stated that the bar had been raised when they re-signed Joe and fired Woody. They stated that ECFinals was the goal and that's the move you make to try and put you there? Kirk Hinrich

No mercy, you make moves based on your goals. If I want to make sure I get the new XBOX when it comes out I don't go overspend on some generic console, saying it will do until the xbox comes out. if I do that and it blows up in my face, I need to live with it. No mercy, horrible move with no focus.

[dms269]

Without the trade we are a first round exit and continue to not be able to beat the Magic in a 7 game series. Hinrich was the reason we won since he held Nelson in check (when nelson exploded, Crawford was guarding him). We were dreadful defensively at the point with Bibby, so there is no doubt Nelson would have went beast on us.

[Superiorblogman]

Without the trade we are a first round exit and continue to not be able to beat the Magic in a 7 game series. Hinrich was the reason we won since he held Nelson in check (when nelson exploded, Crawford was guarding him). We were dreadful defensively at the point with Bibby, so there is no doubt Nelson would have went beast on us.

You are totally stretching things to say Hinrich was the reason we won. Playing Dwight straight up and not leaving 3 point shooters due to double teams was more of the reason we won than Hinrich doing anything. Jason Collins showing the way on how to man up against Superman had a lot more to do with that than Hinrich.

[GodDamnRobin]

I'm liking Hinrich for you guys.

[#1 pick]

Without the trade we are a first round exit and continue to not be able to beat the Magic in a 7 game series. Hinrich was the reason we won since he held Nelson in check (when nelson exploded, Crawford was guarding him). We were dreadful defensively at the point with Bibby, so there is no doubt Nelson would have went beast on us.

Really, for this reason and the reason that now we have pieces to trade for a big time player are the reasons why the Hinrich deal was a great one. Look, I agree with myrak. Jordan was never going to develop with us. We aren't a scrub team that will let you shoot 20 shots a game. One bad shot could hurt us and with the injures with had, every play mattered. Jordan just wasn't going to get the chance. Teague barely got the chance and he's ten times the talent Jordan is.

Blogman is aright with me but Hinrich was the single reason we one with Collins. Nelson usually gives us fits, Hinrich locked his ass down. That alone made him worth it.

[dms269]

Without the trade we are a first round exit and continue to not be able to beat the Magic in a 7 game series. Hinrich was the reason we won since he held Nelson in check (when nelson exploded, Crawford was guarding him). We were dreadful defensively at the point with Bibby, so there is no doubt Nelson would have went beast on us.

You are totally stretching things to say Hinrich was the reason we won. Playing Dwight straight up and not leaving 3 point shooters due to double teams was more of the reason we won than Hinrich doing anything. Jason Collins showing the way on how to man up against Superman had a lot more to do with that than Hinrich.

Nelson went off on Crawford when he was being guarded by him. Now replace Crawford with Bibby and it would have been even worse. Shutting down Dwight helped and their 3p shooters going cold was good, but all they needed was a spark. Nelson scoring 25-30 (no one else was, would have been easy) would have been that spark and tipping point.

Jordan is a good volume shooter. Yes he scored a ton but he shot .384. That is horrible. If we was doing that on this team we would be saying we need to cut him.

[Superiorblogman]

These are the decisions GM's are faced with daily and it can have a very negative effect when they overrate players. That Kirk trade was undeniably bad. I just hope we wake up and trade his expiring for assets before the trade deadline, because he sure does not help us get closer to our goal. If we can get a Center in a trade where he is the center-piece or recoup that 1st round pick and get a decent role player I will be more than happy. Don't just lie to yourselves like you did with Jamal and not trade him and get something for him. It is funny that people make a big deal out of losing stars such as Carmelo, Paul, and Dwight for nothing but it is acceptable to lose Jamal and Kirk who you gave up too much for and get nothing back. It is not acceptable to anyone that really cares about the team over 1 overrated piece.