Does Bogut have enough offense to help the Hawks?

[baseline33]

Hawks have no problem in defending Dwight or getting high level post defense from Smoove and Horford.

so if the Hawks can trade for Bogut, will he be good enough to give Joe that back to the basket offensive center, because i heard that Bucks fans hate Bogut's offensive game.

[Superiorblogman]

The Hawks are not going to trade for Bogut.

[parson]

Been watching the Hawks long, guys?

Hawks would definitely trade for Bogut if they could. We've been crying for a big man - a TRUE Center - for years now.

And we most certainly have had trouble defending Dwight Howard until this past year, when we began to use Twin (who seems to do nothing else for our team but defend DH). It's really hard to believe that Jason Collins will continue to stop Howard. As for our "high level post defense" : our low post defense has been very poor against tall Centers. Josh Smith, particularly, cannot defend the low post, as big men simply go right into him.

Bogut at Center - on offense - means two less bodies out on the perimeter and a big man down low to snatch rebounds. Joe has more room, Teague has more room, even Marvelous has room. Horford is freer to set up for his midrange shot while having someone to receive his inside passes when the defense overplays his 10-12 ft. shot. Plus, the team is better situated for offensive rebounds.

[MaceCase]

Short answer, No.

[Superiorblogman]

I'm crying for a couple million and to see God's face so I can confidently spread the news to the world and end all the speculation once and for all. Neither is happening right now. The Hawks aren't trading for Bogut and as someone else said he does not give u a low post offensive game. If u want low post scoring you would be better going for someone like Brook Lopez, maybe even Roy Hibbert, Nene, Bynum has a better low post game, Cousins, Chris Kaman has a better low post game. Heck the people calling for Al Jefferson have a good argument if all you are looking for is a low post game. He has a better one than Bogut.

Al Jefferson scores the ball better than anyone on our team, and he has a back to the basket game. He gives u a point per every 1.68 minutes on the floor. The best currently have is Josh at 2.12 and Al shoots a better percentage. Problem is Utah is not a good trade partner for us if we are trying to stay under the luxury.

[Ruhiel]

He's not even in the country right now

But Back to the basket? You got the wrong idea. You throw the ball into him and Dwight can single cover him and the offense stagnates. I don't know about Joel Anthony though lol.

You can run some penetration and keep him hovering near basket where he can dunk and tear drop in off of penetration.

The plan would be to shoot from perimeter and make bigs crash boards. On penetration you drop off passes for dunks.

Bogut's more Tyson Chandler than Dwight. On a winning team He would not be back to the basket much but more PnR and screens for your guards. His points would be movement based.

And I know Kris Humphries wouldn't be blocking his sh*t,
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E49M8Y091uA[/youtube]

And damn Brook Lopez is a clod on defense. Look at this clowns feet on pick and roll defense. Geez!

[Superiorblogman]

He's not even in the country right now

But Back to the basket? You got the wrong idea. You throw the ball into him and Dwight can single cover him and the offense stagnates. I don't know about Joel Anthony though lol.

You can run some penetration and keep him hovering near basket where he can dunk and tear drop in off of penetration.

The plan would be to shoot from perimeter and make bigs crash boards. On penetration you drop off passes for dunks.

Bogut's more Tyson Chandler than Dwight. On a winning team He would not be back to the basket much but more PnR and screens for your guards. His points would be movement based.

And I know Kris Humphries wouldn't be blocking his sh*t,
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E49M8Y091uA[/youtube]

And damn Brook Lopez is a clod on defense. Look at this clowns feet on pick and roll defense. Geez!

We are talking offense here not defense and Lopez is a superior offensive talent to Bogut. Also, Bogut played last night he has been back in the country for a couple of days. Actually, had a double double last night as they beat the Spurs at home. I like Bogut but like you say he is more Chandler and I don't think we should be giving up needed pieces like Al or Josh for him. He is not that good, we would be stuck in neutral if you remove either of those 2 for him. Marvin, Zaza, 2 1st rd picks in a minute

[parson]

2 conversations going on here: Bogut is a really good player who'd help us a lot; and, while he's not a good offensive player, he'd help our offense because the spacings would be better for our entire team.

Is he a great one-on-one player who'd dominate games offensively for us? No, but why is that necessary?

But what brought Bogut up? Did someone hear he was available? Are we rehashing the "trade Josh Smith" arguments?

[Ruhiel]

How would Bogut help spacing? He'd move Smith or Horford to the 3 pt line where they're useless.

To me yeah Bogut would make us a legit defensive, rebounding team. But its always been more about: Marvin is a jack of all trades but a bad fit with the starters, who need spacing and size. Bench him for size and shooting. Adds to our depth and gives us monster mismatches.

I wanted Jon Leuer from the Bucks to play that perimeter spot that Vlad is thriving at. Shooting, fast break trailing, halfcourt spacing. Helps our whole team. And he has size to post up if SFs try to guard him.

Vlad would be perfect except for lack of post up ability and Larry Drew always has to find a way to hide him on defense. Just waiting for other shoe to drop.

And not that I doubt his ability but Bucks have lots of perimeter players so Leuer is currently playing the inside spots for Bucks.

[baseline33]

2 conversations going on here: Bogut is a really good player who'd help us a lot; and, while he's not a good offensive player, he'd help our offense because the spacings would be better for our entire team.

Is he a great one-on-one player who'd dominate games offensively for us? No, but why is that necessary?

But what brought Bogut up? Did someone hear he was available? Are we rehashing the "trade Josh Smith" arguments?

how the hell does Bogut help spacing?!?!? he is singled covered by every team in the NBA with out any threat of offense.

Smoove demands a double team in the low block, and at least Horford's jumpshot, spaces the hell out for the Hawks

[parson]

Good grief. I assume you're using expletives because you don't have any words of consequence.

I really shouldn't waste time on a jerk. I mean, really, you just got here a little while ago and you're already cussing folks out? However: Bogut helps our spacing by being the ONLY player posting up down low (don't talk to me about the 2-3 times Smith does it before going right back outside). And when did you EVER see Smith getting double-teamed down low? That is pure fiction. We WISH he'd go inside more, but he doesn't. For that matter, when did you ever see Smith being double-teamed anywhere on the court? I don't remember ever seeing that ... and I'll bet you never did, either.


Listen, child, people are going to disagree with you from time to time, especially on a forum dedicated to opinions. Get used to it.

[Ruhiel]

Good grief. I assume you're using expletives because you don't have any words of consequence.

I really shouldn't waste time on a jerk. I mean, really, you just got here a little while ago and you're already cussing folks out? However: Bogut helps our spacing by being the ONLY player posting up down low (don't talk to me about the 2-3 times Smith does it before going right back outside). And when did you EVER see Smith getting double-teamed down low? That is pure fiction. We WISH he'd go inside more, but he doesn't. For that matter, when did you ever see Smith being double-teamed anywhere on the court? I don't remember ever seeing that ... and I'll bet you never did, either.


Listen, child, people are going to disagree with you from time to time, especially on a forum dedicated to opinions. Get used to it.

Teams like CHI have occasionally tried to double Smith, Horford, to try to force him into a turnover or us to make scrambling plays. Smith does play inside and the spacing isn't there to play Horford, Bogut AND Smith. That would be 3 inside players. Against CHI we tried it and the spacing was not there. And then Teague.

Now, I don't think Bogut "posting up" vs Joakim Noah or Dwight would be much of an advantage.

Again he's a movement guy. Set screens for guys and rolls to draw fouls. His 1 on 1 post game is not high-caliber except maybe against Joel Anthony & otherwise would be a 5th option.

Now, in the play I see -

Bogut - screen and roll (Bogut)
Mbah a Moute - crashing (Smith,Horford)
Delfino - outside spacing (????)
Jennings- outside spacing (Teague)
Salmons- outside ballhandler (Johnson)

do you really think Smith or Horford can take Delfino's spot and help spacing? Nope it would hurt spacing.

That's why we've played small guys for years. Perimeter play...Mo Evans, Jamal, Flip, Marvin, Crawford.

Now we got 6'10 Vlad he's doing good but geez he can't post up or defend a position!

If we got Bogut we would still need a stretch 4 to pair up to cover for Smith's weaknesses on offense.
-------

I mean I'm watching a highlight of BOS vs ATl and it seems Woody played Smith at the 3 with no shooting big men to compensate as well.

Only way Bogut could help Smith+Horford is if his size on defense leads to a lot of transition buckets.

And even then you'd have no spacing on the break.

[baseline33]

i have no idea why the hell anybody likes this guy's game, or thinks that he is an asset.

the few times i watch this guy, he always makes me cringe, he looks down right clumsy, and embarrassing.

i don't know how anybody can think that Bogut is on the same level as either Horford or Smoove?!?!?!

[Ruhiel]

Kid, Bogut is a 4th option playing the go to player.

On offense Horford looks clumsier than Bogut fwi. And Bogut's defense would help and his size on boards would not let Ilyasova go for a double double. That shouldnt happen.


Joe and Teague and Josh carry the offense for Horford. Joe and Teague create for Smith.

Not saying Bogut is as active as Smith but making a point for Bogut vs Horford.


For offense who carries Bogut? Stop acting like Horford is creating anything.

Horford box out. Move bodies & rebound. 4th option is him shooting the jumper.

Bogut will layup and dunk or shoot the jumper as our 4th option.
Horford can't shoot he drives and he's out for a season. I pose that if he was switched with Bogut that he would be just as injury prone. As if Al is capable of carrying an offense.

You want Horford vs Bogut check the surrounding cast

Joe Johnson, Jeff Teague and Josh Smith in ATL = ??? Milwaukee

Our big 3 is carrying Marvin and yes Horford's offense. You think otherwise then We'll wait for their equals on MIL's side.

[MaceCase]

7 years later and that dumb lefty hook is still his best shot. Like I said, short answer: no.

[Ruhiel]

Short answer yes. Go look at Zaza and Ivan's touches and those are what Bogut would get.

[MaceCase]

Most teams don't bench their first options especially when they supposedly ride them so much

[Ruhiel]

Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Jeff Teague is to Al Horford
as
Brandon Jennings,????, ????? is to Andrew Bogut


Most teams 1st options are actually capable of being 1st options :eyeroll:
edit: According to usage% Jennings is the 1st option now.

[baseline33]

it is pathetic that even with Horford out, Bogut is still a scrub, offensively and defensively .

[Superiorblogman]

Bogut isn't any good offensively. He isn't that good defensively. Teague was running to the rim at the beginning of the game with Bogut in the game. Where was the help from big bad Bogut? Bogut has never been and will never be worth Al. I have maintained that for every minute of any argument with any person. Now, like I say. Marvin, Zaza, and a 1st. I probably would do it if we could send Kirk to the Lakers to recoup that 1st. He isn't worth anything more to the Hawks and probably not worth that package.