J. Smoove is turning into J. Jumpshot

baseline33 · Post #1 » by **baseline33** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:30 am

it really seems like Josh's point guard skills, ball handling, and dribbling has gotten better from last year to this year.

i'm really impressed how Josh looks when he is handling the ball, he looks poised and in control, not like before a few years ago.

i remember before, when Josh dribbled the ball, he looked so inept and out of control. but Josh has looked great this year handling the ball and making decisions, he is showing great vision, good decision making, good passing, it is almost at a point where Josh looks like he is the 2nd or 3rd best ball handling big man in the NBA, behind Lebron and/or Odom

DirtybirdGA · Post #2 » by **DirtybirdGA** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:49 pm

I'm like " give it up, give it up... oh ok"... lol

Superiorblogman · Post #3 » by **Superiorblogman** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:48 pm

This is not a good thing and yes Josh has always been Josh jumpshot for better or worse. It will get worse. He is your stretch 4, he is just ineffective.

Ruhiel · Post #4 » by **Ruhiel** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:04 pm

stretch 4? That's Radmanovic.

This Josh praise is getting a little high. But at times he and Horford look like Magic on the break. The problem I have always said is they do not maximize each others skillsets. They overlap in flaws and strengths they run into each other.

Smith + shooter + center (size advantages)
shooter + Horford + center (one has to be a great 2 way player)

And lets not even start with that bugger Marvin.

Post #5 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:06 pm

Josh Smith has always had a thing for the jumper, but we need someone to consistently drive inside, so someone needs to give-in for us to be successful. I'd like to see both Josh and Joe drive inside more often.

Ruhiel · Post #6 » by **Ruhiel** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:15 pm

HMFFL wrote:Josh Smith has always had a thing for the jumper, but we need someone to consistently drive inside, so someone needs to give-in for us to be successful. I'd like to see both Josh and Joe drive inside more often.

To me Teague is that guy. Teague is learning to drive middle of 2 players and draw the double.

If only Zaza could finish around the rim. Or Vlad could shoot off the dribble.

Teague can draw 2 players and hit the guy but its up to the players to finish the play.

azuresou1 · Post #7 » by **azuresou1** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:50 pm

Teague needs to actually stop driving so much; it's really frustrating to see him not take wide open shots that teammates have set up for him, and instead see him drive right into the collapsed defense.

Superiorblogman · Post #8 » by **Superiorblogman** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:12 pm

azuresou1 wrote:Teague needs to actually stop driving so much; it's really frustrating to see him not take wide open shots that teammates have set up for him, and instead see him drive right into the collapsed defense.

This is one of the worse opinions I have heard in a while. On a team full of jumpshot happy guys I am okay with Teague driving and missing all night. He just needs to make sure he gets it off the glass. Go and watch other teams with driving guys and you will see the difference. Josh Smith does not crash the boards on Teague's misses and neither does Zaza or Al Horford. Good rebounders love guys like Teague who run to the hole all night. Just another flaw of our bigs including Josh.

MaceCase · Post #9 » by **MaceCase** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:49 pm

Superiorblogman wrote:
azuresou1 wrote:Teague needs to actually stop driving so much; it's really frustrating to see him not take wide open shots that teammates have set up for him, and instead see him drive right into the collapsed defense.

This is one of the worse opinions I have heard in a while. On a team full of jumpshot happy guys I am okay with Teague driving and missing all night. He just needs to make sure he gets it off the glass. Go and watch other teams with driving guys and you will see the difference. Josh Smith does not crash the boards on Teague's misses and neither does Zaza or Al Horford. Good rebounders love guys like Teague who run to the hole all night. Just another flaw of our bigs including Josh.

It's not an opinion, it's common sense and you made a big mistake by combating his situational observation with your opinion on the overall scheme of the team.

In the specific situations where the defense has already collapsed on Josh, Joe or etc. in the paint and they give Teague an open jumper, that is a higher percentage shot than having him now decide to drive into that same congestion to attempt a contorted and highly contested layup. This is born out in the stats even where he has a far superior eFG% from outside of 10 feet (59%) than he has at the rim (50%).
He didn't say stop driving, he said stop driving when that is a far worse option than taking the easier route that your teammate already worked hard to provide you.

Post #10 » by **ATL Boy** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:12 am

I normally just can't stand Josh taking that 20 foot Jumpshot, but as long as it goes in I really don't mind him shooting it; and to be honest his Jumper has been automatic the last few games, right now I'm really optimistic about his Jumper, if Josh can learn to become a consistent jump shooter then he's a dual threat and his numbers will skyrocket.

Ruhiel · Post #11 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:09 am

long term, the Smith + Ivan/Horford + Zaza that leaves Smith as the best shooter can't work. He can't be primarily stationed on the perimeter long term because teams will figure out to stop Ivan/Horford, stop Zaza and kick it out to Josh and live with the results.

Rip2137 · Post #12 » by **Rip2137** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:49 pm

Josh's shot changed a few games ago. He started releasing on the way up(kind of like how Ben Gordon does) which really increases the margin for error on a jumper and it stopped his shot from being so flat and made his release a lot faster.

I honestly don't understand why that shot type isn't used more. Every kid I have ever taught, I use that release and it increases their shot percentage and freethrow percentage pretty quickly. Does lead to more airballs at first though.

Rip2137 · Post #13 » by **Rip2137** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:49 pm

Josh's shot changed a few games ago. He started releasing on the way up(kind of like how Ben Gordon does) which really increases the margin for error on a jumper and it stopped his shot from being so flat and made his release a lot faster.

I honestly don't understand why that shot type isn't used more. Every kid I have ever taught, I use that release and it increases their shot percentage and freethrow percentage pretty quickly. Does lead to more airballs at first though.

baseline33 · Post #14 » by **baseline33** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:55 pm

^ i see what you are saying, i kinda hang in the air when i shoot, because i want to make sure the ball is not blocking my eyes from seeing the basket as i shoot, but my shot has been really off lately

Superiorblogman · Post #15 » by **Superiorblogman** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:08 pm

Anybody notice how when we took Josh out we started to make the comeback against the TWolves? Let's face it,Josh is a undisciplined basketball player. Also, why is he taking a 3 pointer with the game on the line. That is a shot that he does not even take but that's the shot he takes during the biggest time of the game.

Post #16 » by **HMFFL** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:21 pm

Rip2137 wrote:I honestly don't understand why that shot type isn't used more. Every kid I have ever taught, I use that release and it increases their shot percentage and freethrow percentage pretty quickly. Does lead to more airballs at first though.

Very true. Kids catch on and see the results.

Superiorblogman wrote:Anybody notice how when we took Josh out we started to make the comeback against the TWolves? Let's face it,Josh is a undisciplined basketball player. Also, why is he taking a 3 pointer with the game on the line. That is a shot that he does not even take but that's the shot he takes during the biggest time of the game.

I've come to realize that Josh is going to do what he wants. If he felt he had a good look, fine, but he needs to have more self control, because in most cases won't have an advantage for the offensive rebounds.

Rip2137 · Post #17 » by **Rip2137** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:37 am

Superiorblogman wrote:Anybody notice how when we took Josh out we started to make the comeback against the TWolves? Let's face it,Josh is a undisciplined basketball player. Also, why is he taking a 3 pointer with the game on the line. That is a shot that he does not even take but that's the shot he takes during the biggest time of the game.

You mean that play where Joe dribbled the clock out then passed to him at the end of the shot clock?

Also, why I understand that you love to bash the guy, but you ignore the numerous games where he is the difference in wins, and nit pick at the times a run might coincide with him on the bench. Josh not being in the game did not make Willie Green, Jeff Teague, Joe Johnson and Vlad hit threes. They went to a zone when he went to the bench because there was no shotblocking presence left in the game. That had ,ore to do with it than Josh leaving the game.

MaceCase · Post #18 » by **MaceCase** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:09 am

Not for nothing but I'm getting tired of people putting that shot on Joe. He gave the ball up with 6 seconds left on the clock, Josh could have swung it to Willie Green who was hot that quarter in the corner (the pass that Joe obviously couldn't make from his angle) or tried to create off the dribble similar to what Ivan did JUST the possession before. Taking a 3 with 5 on the clock is on Josh alone, yes he does plenty good for the team but why is it considered that when does he's carrying the team but when he does bad it's everyone else around him's fault?

Ruhiel · Post #19 » by **Ruhiel** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:28 am

If Josh had swung it to Willie Green the defense (Ridnour) would have recovered. He was what 6 feet away? If Smith had swung it Ridnour has enough size to bother Willie Green and then Green would need to create off the dribble.

Josh could not cover Kevin Love.

Josh's Ideal Forward
Josh needs a stretch 4 who can rebound and outlet to get Smith in the open floor. Has enough size to force matchups (not Vlad who sometimes can't post SGs) and stand in the corner and hit 3s at a high rate.

I can't blame him for getting bullied by Kevin Love. this is his ideal playing weight and he's more suited as an inside-small forward with a stretch-power forward.

Why was Josh outside the arc vs 6'10 Tolliver in the 1st place?
Maybe we shouldve just let Willie Green iso and sent Smith and Ivan to crash boards against ?

Team construction is clearly to blame. Smith is flawed but he has less than ideal teammates for his skills and flaws and made the right play in that situation.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mke4EX6eueo[/youtube]

Here are the other quarters and plays where Smith touches the ball:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSfa_QflO-g[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhlz1l8_5KY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iji-9d1QJlc[/youtube]

parson · Post #20 » by **parson** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:36 am

BOTH guys were killing our offense. Joe was dribble-dribble-dribble-pumpfake-shoot while Smith was see-ball-shoot-ball.

Joe was one of the greatest shooters ever when he spotted up outside and let Steve Nash feed him. Now, he finally has a PG who'll penetrate and kick out to him, yet he still wants to go one-on-one. There was one wonderful moment when Teague took the ball right at the defense and then hit Joe on the deep right for a 3. You'd think Joe would realize how Reggie Miller-like he can be with Teague.

Smith is wasting his talents with that jumper. Sure, he needs to establish that he has a jump shot but he needs to drive to the basket a ton more. He could be one of the most dynamic scorers in the NBA if he would drive and dunk.

Only when Teague and the bench were on the court did our team turn things around.