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Larry drew has shown me that he can be a good nba coach. But i still feel that he is not the right person to coach this team. He do not hold his stars accountable for their miskates but he is quick to jump down jeff teague throat. When the hawks got rid of mike woodson they should have went with a more establish coach. He is the cheapest coach in the nba. Rick sund wanted to hire dwane casey. Out of all the coaches that interview for the job larry drew was weakiest. Since the owners were selling the team they went with the cheapest coach.the hawks needed someone who is gone get on them when they make miskates. Larry drew doesnt get the best out of his players. He lets josh smith do whatever he wants to do. Then he gone have the nerves to call him out during the playoffs last year. I believe he is telling josh to keep shooting jumpers. When josh shoots an stupid nasty jumper only the crowd and commentator be upset. If he wanted him to stop shooting he would show some anger when josh takes them. I be upset when he hit jumpers cause i know he feels like he can shoot it again on the next play. If josh played for greg popovich he would be on the bench for that. Larry drew have jeff teague looking to pass to much. Teague should be in attack mode as soon as he steps on the court. He is to quick to not be attacking the rim. The hawks need to get to the freethrow line more too. Marvin needs to be more aggressive. Larry needs to find a better way to get him invole in the offense. If defense is going to be the hawks calling card then he needs get on his players when they give up on defense. The hawks have the talent to be a top 3 defensive team but they dont have the attitude to be that. Larry drew do a good job managing minutes this season. But some games i feel he leaves the bench in the game too long. I wanted to see what do everybody thinks of larry drew and is he the right coach for the hawks.

Why would a coach bench Josh Smith for doing what he told him to do?

I believe if Gregg Popovich had Josh Smith he would have us run a hell of a lot more of this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgyFv42iTns[/youtube]

and a hell of a lot less of this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdN9okLOLjw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyyOSSMngHY[/youtube]

It's funny because our bench player's offense sometimes looks better because they sometimes forget Larry Drew's hella dumb offense and go back to basic basketball.

We refuse to run the most common, most successful set offensive play in NBA basketball. If we go down double digits its an automatic loss. Why? Because our offense wastes too much time setting screens that don't free up Joe, he gets 2 help defenders on either side of the key playing off of Josh or someone else the other teams want to shoot. We run all our dumb screens and Joe gets a tough fadeaway or passes to Josh with the whole clock wasted and we get a tough shot. And then the other team runs a pick and roll with Spencer Hawes/Splitter/Vucevic and they just throw up a 4 foot floater 8 seconds into their shot clock.
We waste time and get jump shooters. Just play pick and roll, like the Clippers, like the Spurs, like the 76ers. Everyone is killing us with simple basketball. Our backups break his offense from time to time and get good looks. Sometimes they don't shoot but the offense is better and we get more looks in the paint if we ran simple screens and roll with the starters.

Its unbelievably daffy that Drew doesnt notice this. Or crazy that he refuses to change.

He's decent but let's be honest, he was part of the staff that let a lot of bad habits develop and the Josh Smith excuse making needs to stop. Woody used to get on Josh's case constantly, benching him if need be and even kicking him out of games but once it became clear that he was fighting for a job and the principal owner declaring Josh Smith "the next best thing to Lebron" well.... it's pretty clear what Woody and now Drew had to do if they want to keep feeding their families and that's not rock the boat with Josh.

You practically hear and read them biting their tongues when it comes to him taking jumpers, fans know he shouldn't take them, every coach, analyst and commentator know he shouldn't take them but when his own coaches are asked directly about it they give some contrived double coachspeak that "Yea, he can take them if I feel he played enough on the inside" or "I don't mind it if it's in the right situation..." but ask them how they determine if he played inside enough or when is the right situation and they end up tripping over themselves. Like you said, LD got caught up in the heat of the moment last year's playoffs and called Josh out and we quickly saw him bitch about being singled out then all of a sudden rumors of trade requests were flying out of the woodwork come the offseason.

He's temperamental and his attitude definitely affects his play on the court and he has the ear or heart of Gearon off the court not to mention an army of friends, family, hangerons, fanboys/girls and generally folk proud of "local boy don' good" offering enough counter-opinion to the facts that have governed his career and doing enough excuse making where the blame for every shortcoming is on his teammates, roster construction, coaching, his measurables etc. etc. etc. but will never settle on him just doing whatever the **** he feels like doing whenever he feels like doing it. So really, unless a truly respected coach comes in that makes above the coaching minimum wage Josh will be Josh and LD has done his best managing his ego and keeping from criticizing him because he really is so talented that he can easily torpedo the team and LD's career if not properly motivated.

Short answer: no, the main reason for me is because he doesn't push Josh Smith to reach his ceiling, he's afraid of Josh so what does he do? He blatantly benches him in the middle of the game for no reason. I've said this before, and I'll say it again: Larry Drew is a Joke!!

ATL Boy wrote:He blatantly benches him in the middle of the game for no reason

Any jumpshot Josh takes is reason enough. Anytime he complains to the refs instead of getting back is reason enough. Anytime he bitches to Zaza or Teague in front of thousands it is enough. I tell you I will rejoice when they finally move this dude or he walks away because he is no Dominique. He does not deserve all the boot licking he gets. Not a all-star again. No why? Because he has too many meltdowns and he is in the midst of one right now.

All that said, no LD is not the guy because he leaves a bad taste in my mouth from being part of the Woody regime, even though I was not against Woody to the extinct some were. He also reinforces that the ASG is just cheap and are not trying to put the best product possible on the floor.

Wow, what exactly is Josh's ceiling? if fans were asked to name what he does good they can't do it.

Well if you go to the games he did well in then you can see what he is good at.
- finishing in transition (does he get to play the wing? no. Marvin Williams and Joe are the wings, Smith is the rebounder and trailer).
- finishing pick and rolls (do we run the play anymore? no)
- offensive rebounding is tops against SFs (yet he plays the PF)
- passing (he's a finisher he can rack up assists for your guys fantasy squads but in reality he should be finishing and inside rebounding over smaller forwards)


Smith's potential? Clock winding down and he's open he's supposed to not shoot it? Drive the ball against guys who play off of him?

Pick and roll at PF/sf. Fast break wing (sf). Offensive rebounder (sf). Post up switches as an sf.

The guys an SF and cant drive around bigger bodies. Last game he got it going against the rookie Vucevic who played up on him and the smaller Thad Young.
Come to think of it Smith is a lot like Horford in that regard. He has more post moves but he's airballing shots trying to back down taller players in the post.

He's the ultimate garbageman sf through and through. a stronger but slower Gerald Wallace. His potential as a PFs been reached.

People tell him to drive but what happens when he does manage to cross up and drive against PFs? He passes the ball back out because the PF can still recover and contest his shots when he goes off the dribble.

offensive rebounding and size (as a wing)
transition (as a wing)
The simple 2 man pick and roll (as a wing/PF)


As a PF, Unless Larry Drew told the team to run this play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mw3LLJpY2A and Josh is not doing it then Josh is the problem.

But stop acting as if he's taking the wrong shots and taking away from Drews bad concept of team offense. WAY More often than not we come into the halfcourt (with 20 seconds) we've run JJ off of 3 screens (14 seconds left) and now he's dribbling into help defense for 6 seconds (8 seconds left) help comes from Smith leaving him open with 8 seconds left.

Thats called POOR GAME PLANNING and plays DIRECTLY into opposing teams hands. Larry Drew's gameplan is that dumb as to have Josh Smith as a pressure release and he really isnt playing JJ off the ball. Its terrible.

Simple pick and roll. If its not there swing the ball and let the weakside players make a play (Marvin or JJ or Teague, depending on whos handling the ball and whos weakside). I suggest JJ weakside for obvious reasons. Marvin in the opposite corner for corner 3s or diving to the rim.

taking the right shot for this convoluted offense and he goes entire plays without touching the ball but he's not connecting on the correct shots that a PF takes.

It's somewhat to early to tell.

-He had the best post-season run of any Hawks coach in over a decade.

-He's the only Hawks coach with an overall winning record this century.

-He's improved in his offensive and defensive systems this regular season.

-Rarely can we say that we were outcoached in wins OR losses. (This was always the case under Mike Woodson.)

He's an adequate coach who appears to be getting better. (Clearly he used the lockout to re-assess his coaching strategies from last season.) But his team isn't very talented or very deep.

Thibodeaux has the MVP and an owner with deep pockets.
D'Antoni has to All-Stars and ownership who'll gove/do anything to win.
Larry Drew has Josh Smith & the Atlanta Spirit ownership group....and we're still one of the top 5 teams in the East.

He's done more with this team than Woody did in 5+ years. Unless a clear upgrade becomes available, he deserves more time as HC. With our roster as dysfunctional and disjointed as it's been, he's done an adequate job. He, however, should have NO Personnel inout at all. The Pape SY fiasco has made that clear.

lol good quote. Eye opening to re-read it.

As for Smith being the most pivotal player on the Hawks, that's apparently nothing new. Gearon remembers talking with players in December 2007, four months before Atlanta would make its first playoff appearance in nine years and take eventual champion Boston to seven games in the first round.

"It was the only time in my lifetime I've ever sat down with players alone and just sort of talked about stuff, and everyone back then was like, 'Josh is the key (to the team),' " Gearon said of Smith, a six-year veteran who is 24 but was just 21 entering the month those comments were made. "Even then, people were like, 'He's the key.' He does different things. The intensity rises for the whole team. It was interesting to hear that even back then.''

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/04/21/hawks ... to-lebron/

Then you go into what John Salmons says and it perfectly all keys into what I just said about Smith.
I said:
+offensive rebounding and size (against wings)
+transition (as a wing)
+The simple 2 man pick and roll (as a wing/PF)

John Salmons
"He's one of those players that can control the game,'' said Bucks guard John Salmons. "His athleticism is as good as anybody's in the league. You've always got to worry about him when taking the ball to the basket. He's a good rebounder, catches some lobs, he's running the floor, gets offensive rebounds, does a lot of dirty work.''

Keep in mind thats when bucks had a small roster and Smith was being guarded by Small forwards such as Carlos Delfino and sf/pf Ilyasova.

So move him, his athleticim and transition game to SF, replace Marvin with a Troy Murphy type, someone who can defend, rebound and outlet vs the PF and shoot 3s.

Barring doing that due to roster constraints we will have a worse version of Blake Griffin at PF. And the best you can do is call the PnR plays that have him rolling into open lanes and take him out of the middle of the play early.

Added - You cant run pick and rolls with him in the middle of the floor. He rolls into the clogged paint and he will have contested shots. No hes not good at making contested shots.

You cant run pick and rolls with Zaza or the center in the middle of the floor. Because help will come and Smith will be left open intentionally with the clock winding down. Plays into opponents hands.

Not to be petty but

"When Josh plays like that, we're at our best'' Horford said after Tuesday's game. "We're going to go as far (in the playoffs) as Josh Smith takes us.''

bootlicking indeed

No. He never was the right coach for the Hawks. He'd been an assistant with this team for too long before taking over and as such I've never felt that he had any authority over the stars on the team. He let Joe Johnson (isos), Josh Smith (stand and chuck), Jamal Crawford (isos) and possibly Al Horford (hard to tell) do what they feel last year instead of running the "new" offense. At the same time the players he felt he had power over like Zaza and Teague he screwed around with at will. He doesn't seem to understand or care about the psychology demands of management. In game he doesn't stand up for his players and his adjustments appear sluggish or not at all. If the jumpers are falling the team and he look good. If not he has nothing.

The only thing I see in Drew's favor was the decision to go big against Orlando and win that series. Other than that I see nothing to like.

If the ASG plan on retaining Drew next year or for that matter if they don't plan on hiring a new outside coaching voice then they should trade Josh Smith in the offseason if not at the trade deadline. He's in the last year of his deal next season and Drew isn't the coach to get the best out of Josh. That's just one example, Drew needs a whole new roster to be successful cause his style requires an entire roster of people who never knew him as the friendly assistant.

We ran the new offense and we beat Chicago bloody. Problem is now instead of Horford rebounding and pushing the ball with Smith in transition we now have Smith pushing the ball and no finishers (Marvin is a bust btw).

We actually need to go back to pick and roll. I dont see how LD isnt the coach to get the best out of Josh as far as attitudes. Its Xs and Os and lineups. And some of that is due to roster construction.

Until Al comes back or is traded you have to run pick and rolls for Smith, to nullify his lack of 1 on 1 ability vs big men. LD's attitude is perfect unless hes really refusing to temporarily change/adjust the offense.
You cant win with Iso Joe (teams just double team and crowd paint to leave Smith open) or having Smith set middle picks because he rolls right into help defense. He aint scoring there.

Hawks are TIED for 21st in Pace this season. Everyone who has seen the hawks for years, knows that they should be running. Even know more so when they have teague running point over bibby.

The hawks have a ton of good finishers at the rim and guys that are good in transition. But they are coached to slow it down. This makes no sense. The only great shooter in the line up is joe. Al has no post game AT ALL. And josh's post game is limited but passable. not great by any means.

Teague is best attacking the basket
Josh is best when he is attacking the basket
Al is a good finisher
Marvin is a good finisher.

so why isnt this team running more. it makes no sense.

johnny878 wrote:Hawks are TIED for 21st in Pace this season. Everyone who has seen the hawks for years, knows that they should be running. Even know more so when they have teague running point over bibby.

The hawks have a ton of good finishers at the rim and guys that are good in transition. But they are coached to slow it down. This makes no sense. The only great shooter in the line up is joe. Al has no post game AT ALL. And josh's post game is limited but passable. not great by any means.

Teague is best attacking the basket
Josh is best when he is attacking the basket
Al is a good finisher
Marvin is a good finisher.

so why isnt this team running more. it makes no sense.

??? Marvin is not a good finisher and is slow on the break. I think thats the problem...

Teague is the point guard. Josh is the only typical wing finisher and he's busy boxing out inside while Marvin gets to waddle on the break.

Physically, there are 2 Marvin Williamses: there is the guy who came into the NBA posterizing Marcus Camby and there is the present-day guy who can't get higher than 20 inches off the ground. I have to believe the back problems (and following surgery) play a part.

The question is whether it's permanent.

The funny thing is that because pMarvins] minutes are limited he's actually having his best year. But I said before the season we should make trades so that he would be around 12mpg.
But w/e.

Is it permanent? We still asking that? Marvin Williams cant be a starting forward for us to have a championship team. Drew is constantly trying to pull him and mix his lineups to find where he can have an impact/least hurt us.

At the most basic level Marvin + Josh have minimal cohesion together. For example, Josh Smith rebounds and outlets to a guard and just look at Marvin "run" hes terrible on the break.

I think Doc Rivers said it best in an interview praising Al Horford. When we had Marvin, Joe and Bibby in the "backcourt". Doc Rivers said something like we're inverted fast break team and our bigs outrun our wings. Thats 3 years ago? Thats a crying shame because its still true. More now than ever.

I could post a clip of Josh Smith beating Marvin Williams (and Rudy Gay) in a footrace and show how long it takes Marvin to get started running.

But Macecase would come in and say that isn't proof its tainted "confirmation bias", because EVERYONE KNOWS Marvin Williams, is faster and better finishing the break than Josh Smith.

But, as to the question at hand - is Larry Drew the right coach for the Hawks? - all I can say is he is looking just like Mike Woodson. In other words, it might not matter if Drew's fired, if our owners have a certain type of coach in mind. It's not just that Woodson and Drew came cheap, both play with pretty much the same offensive strategy and appearance (motion offenses that end up in jump shots, a monotonous pattern broken only by the frequent forays of Joe Johnson going one-on-one against the world) and each saw his offense fail and was forced to focus on defense. It may be hard for many here to remember that Woodson came here touting his great offensive scheme ... but ended his time here focusing solely on defense.

If you add in that both were given small teams by their management, then their teams ... and results ... appear identical.

There's going to have to be a change in the owners' vision of the team:
-- they're going to have to lose their disdain for big men - draft 'em, develop 'em, trade for 'em.
-- they're going to have to move to an offense that gets Joe open, rather than praying he can get himself open - run him around screens, for crying out loud; penetrate and then kick it out to him.
-- they're going to have to find a way to post Josh Smith down low and make him a hammer against weaker SFs - the present situation has become a national joke.
-- they're going to have to stop stuffing Marvin Williams in the corner and leaving him there, standing and watching the rest of the team move around - use screens, post ups - anything but him standing there.
-- they're going to have to find a way to open the middle for Jeff Teague's drives - he's not a "pure PG" but he can REALLY get to the basket.
-- they're going to have to find a way to use one of the best mid-range shooters in the NBA - Horford's been pitifully underused.

Two times, the ASG has hired a guy who bragged about his offensive "system." It is now time for a coach who will take the talent we have and devise an offense that fits them, rather than demand our round pegs fit it's square holes. If Drew can be that man, great. But I fear the problem is the owners' vision for our team, and any coach we hire will be under their control.

Ruhiel wrote:The funny thing is that because his minutes are limited he's actually having his most efficient year. But I said before the season we should make trades so he would be around 12mpg.

But w/e. What question is there to ask? Marvin Williams cant be a starting forward for us to have a championship team. Constantly trying to pull him and mix minutes to find where he can have an impact.

At the most basic level Marvin + Josh have minimal cohesion together.
Josh Smith rebounds and outlets to a guard and just look at Marvin run.

I think Doc Rivers said it best in an interview praising Al Horford. When we had Marvin, Joe and Bibby in the "backcourt". He said something like we're inverted fast break team and our bigs outrun our wings. Thats 3 years ago? Thats a crying shame because its still true. More now than ever.

I could post a clip of Josh Smith beating Marvin Williams (and Rudy Gay) in a footrace and show how long it takes Marvin to get started running.

But that wouldn't be proof it would be "confirmation bias", because EVERYONE KNOWS Marvin Williams, is faster than Josh Smith.

I'll come up with a devastating reply as soon as I figure out what you just said.