Joe, "We're too self conscious about [who is] scoring."

[parson]

Link: http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/02/21/j ... logs_hawks

Here's the best part:

“When I look at our team, we are a very talented team, but I [don’t know] whether guys know their roles or not,” Johnson said. “We know the right thing to do. A lot of times we don’t come out and do it. I just think we should all have one agenda, one goal and that is winning the basketball game. Not who scores what, who does what. I think we are too self conscious about [who is] scoring and the little things that really don’t matter. For us to win the game we have to put all of that to the side and help one another on both ends of the floor. If we don’t do that, we are going to continue to struggle to win games. I think we have to put a lot into perspective about how good we want to be as a team or what direction we are headed in or what are our goals. Right now I’m not sure if everyone has that one common goal – and that is winning.

Sounds to me that there's a ego-problem. I know I'm possibly reading this wrong but it seems to me that Joe is saying, "Hey, guys, stop being so selfish and let me have my 25 shots."

I don't think everyone's satisfied with "knowing their roles" and letting Joe take all the shots. First it was Josh who elbowed his way into Joe's domain and now Teague and McGrady are so insistent on getting theirs that Marvelous is demanding his, as well.

It's. About. Cottonpicking. Time.

[fullcourt]

[Superiorblogman]

Link: http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/02/21/j ... logs_hawks

Here's the best part:

“When I look at our team, we are a very talented team, but I [don’t know] whether guys know their roles or not,” Johnson said. “We know the right thing to do. A lot of times we don’t come out and do it. I just think we should all have one agenda, one goal and that is winning the basketball game. Not who scores what, who does what. I think we are too self conscious about [who is] scoring and the little things that really don’t matter. For us to win the game we have to put all of that to the side and help one another on both ends of the floor. If we don’t do that, we are going to continue to struggle to win games. I think we have to put a lot into perspective about how good we want to be as a team or what direction we are headed in or what are our goals. Right now I’m not sure if everyone has that one common goal – and that is winning.

Sounds to me that there's a ego-problem. I know I'm possibly reading this wrong but it seems to me that Joe is saying, "Hey, guys, stop being so selfish and let me have my 25 shots."

I don't think everyone's satisfied with "knowing their roles" and letting Joe take all the shots. First it was Josh who elbowed his way into Joe's domain and now Teague and McGrady are so insistent on getting theirs that Marvelous is demanding his, as well.

It's. About. Cottonpicking. Time.

You make no sense. How is Teague insisting on getting his? All we ever here is he needs to be more aggressive and he hardly does because people like Josh make comments about him being overly aggressive when he does. You are lost if you can't see this is aimed at Josh. He has been chucking even more this year since Horford went down. He probably is displaying selfish tendencies in the locker room and on flights since Joe went to the all-star team also.

[parson]

You make no sense.

You've said that several times now on other threads. I'm sorry I confuse you. I tried to see what I said that threw you off but some of your words (in your most recent post) seem to agree with my point.

I think you're close. Maybe if you tried harder...

[Superiorblogman]

You make no sense.

You've said that several times now on other threads. I'm sorry I confuse you. I tried to see what I said that threw you off but some of your words (in your most recent post) seem to agree with my point.

I think you're close. Maybe if you tried harder...

You're lost if that sounds to you like Joe saying stop being selfish and let me get 25 shots.

Facts Kirk is taking 5.8 shots a game since coming back. That is more than any bench player not named Willie Green. Willie Green is only taking 6.2 but hitting at a 47 percent rate to Kirk's 33 percent rate.

Facts Josh is shooting 46% from the field on 15 shots and he is your PF. Teague 47% from field on 10 shots and best 3 pt percentage of guys taking 2 or more a game. Josh 3 pt percentage is only better than Kirk's meaning he is 2nd worse on team but the attempts are increasing. Josh FT shooting is only better than Kirk's also meaning he is second worse on the team. Al these numbers point directly to Josh and Kirk really need to be more effective with there scoring rates or they are hurting the team. Not hard to see who these shots were sent at. I personally think Kirk is not fully recovered. Don't remember him being this bad at shooting even though that was a horrible trade to start with. I also think the shots are more directed at Josh but Kirk and LD's over use of him deserves some heat also.

[Bucked19]

I have to agree this is aimed at Josh,instead of giving the ball to Teague he always wants to bring it down and it ends up being a turnover,plus those airball fadeaways don't help his case.

[HMFFL]

Josh Smith seems to be worried about getting his all the time. He desperately wants to make a name for himself at the NBA level and yet it continues to keep him from being an All-Stars. Many fans believe he deserves to be one over players like Deng, not me, but Josh needs to become more of a team player. The problem with him becoming a team player is that his stats are going to suffer.

Teague needs to have more control over the team, and so does Joe Johnson, but the two of them continue to fold to Josh Smith. It's causing me to lose interest in the team.

[parson]

I don't think it's aimed at JUST Josh, I think Joe aimed it at the entire team. I think he's saying that THEY'RE being selfish for not letting HIM do all the shooting.

I think Joe's saying Josh wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying Teague wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying Hinrich wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying the bench wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying the ballboy wants too many shots....

I think Joe wants the team to play the way we often do in the 4th - with Joe going one-on-one while the rest of our team watches.

[HMFFL]

I don't think it's aimed at JUST Josh, I think Joe aimed it at the entire team. I think he's saying that THEY'RE being selfish for not letting HIM do all the shooting.

I think Joe's saying Josh wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying Teague wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying Hinrich wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying the bench wants too many shots.
I think Joe's saying the ballboy wants too many shots....

I think Joe wants the team to play the way we often do in the 4th - with Joe going one-on-one while the rest of our team watches.

I prefer Joe Johnson to have the most attempts on the team, followed by Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith 3rd or 4th. If Horford was healthy, I prefer Josh Smith to be the fourth option, but that's not going to be the case, because that's not acceptable to him. Josh has to be in the mix, he has the strongest personality on the team (the loudest), and Joe Johnson needs to man up. He goes to the press to talk about it, but he needs to do something about it on the court.

[parson]

Josh Smith seems to be worried about getting his all the time.

No doubt. He doesn't seem to respect or trust anyone.

He desperately wants to make a name for himself at the NBA level and yet it continues to keep him from being an All-Stars. Many fans believe he deserves to be one over players like Deng, not me, but Josh needs to become more of a team player. The problem with him becoming a team player is that his stats are going to suffer.

I'm not sure his stats would suffer. We really need him to supply interior scoring. If he'd get off the 3pt arc and go inside, he'd score a lot of simple points. And even if his scoring did suffer, maybe his other stats would increase, for example, offensive rebounding - because he's closer to the basket.

I saw him start a fast break in the POR debacle that was a thing of beauty. If he'd do that on a regular basis, folks would start lauding his outlet passing the way they do Kevin Love.

Teague needs to have more control over the team, and so does Joe Johnson, but the two of them continue to fold to Josh Smith. It's causing me to lose interest in the team.

Teague's a mess right now. Drew and Joe publicly criticized him for driving so much - earlier in the season - and now he just floats around the perimeter, waiting for a 3pter. He doesn't even try to run our offense but just gives the ball up. I think that's by Drew's design.

[parson]

I prefer Joe Johnson to have the most attempts on the team, followed by Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith 3rd or 4th. If Horford was healthy, I prefer Josh Smith to be the fourth option, but that's not going to be the case, because that's not acceptable to him. Josh has to be in the mix, he has the strongest personality on the team (the loudest), and Joe Johnson needs to man up. He goes to the press to talk about it, but he needs to do something about it on the court.

Joe's shooting 42.5% overall and 34.3% from 3. That's not what I want leading the team. Of course, if you mean you want Joe to start shooting shots he hits well, such as the spot up or catch-and-shoot, I agree. I do not want iso-Joe.

But the way our offense is structured right now, iso-Joe is what Drew wants. That is killing us. With our present offense, I would rather the open man take the shot, whoever he might be.

Good shots. I do not care who is taking them. We have a number of talented scorers.

IF Josh would take good, open shots, say, 5 feet from the basket, I'd be happy even if he took 30.
IF Teague would take good, open shots, say, driving to the basket, I'd be happy even if he took 30.
For goodness sakes, if ZAZA had 30 good, open shots, right under the basket, I'd want him to take them.

[Rip2137]

I'm not so sure about Josh just looking to get his. He just seems to think he is better than he is. His looking to pass is what leads to his turnovers, always trying to make the pass to make the assist and never seeing the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the assist. Basically, he is a dude that sees one step ahead.

That said, I have seen precious few plays where Josh dribbled down the court, dribbled for 22 seconds and shot the ball without anyone else touching it, which I have seen from Kirk and Joe this year.

Josh has done a much better job of finding the open man over Joe who DOES have the ability to see one step ahead but is chosing not to. I have no problem with Josh looking for his in the post. While his jumper is improved, he needs to learn when to take it and when to pass up on it (more than 8 seconds on the shot clock means its not the time).

Marvin, I have noticed, got alot more aggressive with his shot lately, as in if I get the ball its going up. That is a result of simply not getting the ball enough on offense. Teague, you can see him getting chewed out for going to the rim(which is stupid. Iso Teague is a better play than Iso Joe 100% of the time).

The Bench as a unit was being incredibly unselfish and always making the extra pass early in the year. But since Kirk has come back it has kinda been a "get yours" type of feel going on out there.

I honestly believe Joe sitting a few games and Kirk getting a MAJOR reduction in minutes would help this team.

[evildallas]

I don't think selfishness is the problem. At least not the main problem. I see bigger problems with lack of motivation and energy. I see bigger problems with valuing the basketball. I see bigger problems with shot selection. I see see bigger problems with positioning and motion on offense. I see bigger problems with defensive execution. As a team the Hawks are too often flat, too often turnover happy, too often settle for jump shots and too often stagnant and standing where they shouldn't.

I don't see Josh as selfish. He'll pass and he'll do it a lot. The problem with Josh is over-confidence combined with sloppy focus and inconsistent effort. He thinks he can make every shot which he can, but he doesn't seem to comprehend the actual odds of success. He'll shoot open shots which means he likely shoots more than other people. He doesn't seem to understand that the defense leaves him open outside of a certain range because the odds of him succeeding are low. LeBron shoots 3s too often as well because you don't get hammered shooting the 3 and the defense prefers him due that rather than drive. Last year Josh shot a higher 3pt % than LeBron or Wade, but none of then shot great from 3pt range. By the way Josh thinks he can make every pass too, but he often throws it too hard for a catch or in too much traffic or with a bad angle. A lot of Hawks throw the ball away but Josh is most likely to temporarily think he's Jason Kidd and try something near impossible.

As for Joe, his job is not just to take shots but make them. His percentages are too low to be territorial about who shoots. If he was shooting like Ray Allen and not getting enough shots then I might buy into his "know your role" speech.

Teague has had a couple games where he couldn't hit a shot. More often he has to be pushed into shooting because he seems terrified that if he makes a mistake he'll get yanked from the game for long periods of time. Most of the time he hits a decent percentage of his shots and it would be nice if he took a few more. Marvin's the least assertive player I can remember and doesn't really need to be in this conversation. T. Mac's complaint was as much about Drew's lack of communication as anything else. You have to make some assumptions to get to T. Mac being selfish with shooting. Often when he's on the floor it seems like everyone is after to shoot so he has to be assertive on offense.

Finally, too often does everyone on this team fall in love with jumpers. EVERYONE. We don't have a player who can get to the line although with our FT woes maybe that's not a bad thing. Go back and watch the film when we fall behind by 20 points in almost any game and you'll see a stretch where we can't hit a jumper to save our lives. Sometimes they're open shots, some times they're not, but they're all jumpers. Nothing to the rim. Nothing to the line. The exception was the Knicks game when the Hinrich lead offense went 6 possessions without a shot because of turnovers. Do you think Drew would have left Teague if it happened on his watch? No way.

[Ruhiel]

Josh needs to call his own plays and by that I mean pick and roll. Sucks in the defense and gets others open.

If he can't take it on himself to do that and break the inefficient, screen the screener crap we see always he has something going on mentally.
And that is:
A) he wants to say on the perimeter and jack up shots.
B) he is altruistic and after 7 years in the league doesn't know how 2 man game helps the team
C) he knows what it does but its not in the offense and he is a captain yet doesnt have the balls to call the play and direct his teammates to set up this staple NBA play.

Thats about all the options I could think of why we dont run it at all. Josh Smith is the key to the Hawks success so I dont know which scenario is more depressing.