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Andrew Bogut has been an active topic on this board this season.

$12,100,000 (Current Season)
$13,150,000
$14,200,000

That leads us to Andrew Bogut, who fractured his left ankle and is out for another 8-12 weeks. Hurt or healthy, there are always teams interested in the 2005 pick of the litter, who’s under contract ($13M/$14M) for the next seasons. Obviously, the Bucks have yet to hear anything especially enticing, but they’re “definitely open to offers,” disclosed an East Coast coach. http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/mag ... M97eB9pO/1

If we call and they ask for Smith or Horford Sund better hang up. Also if we do trade for him we better not take back any bad deals unless one of our bad deals is getting shipped out also. To me Bogut has lost virtually all trade value because of all the injuries

I have little to no interest in Bogut. The only way I would listen is if Joe Johnson is involved. I know others here would like to acquire him but Joe has to be involved or it's nothing for me.

Some of you guys around here wanted the Hawks to try to get Oden in the off-season. I mean, a couple of months ago nobody knew he would be lost for the season again. Bogut has a similar situation. He's injury prone, has proved NOTHING since he came into this league as the number 1 pick and here we are to my surprise entertaining the idea of trading for a guy that has NO written all over him. I'm telling you, some of you guys make B. Knight look like a genius.

HMFFL wrote:I have little to no interest in Bogut. The only way I would listen is if Joe Johnson is involved. I know others here would like to acquire him but Joe has to be involved or it's nothing for me.

Pretty much this.

Still would do Marvin, Kirk, and a 1st for Bogut any day.

Mark me down as one who would trade Josh Smith for Bogut. Considering Bogut's recent health problems, I'd ask for a pick (or 2) but I would see the move as a team upgrade.

Josh is posting numbers that are only a little bit better than Bogut's (14.7 pts/ 7.9 reb to 12.7/9.3 -- Bogut is the same as Josh in recent years in blocked shots).

I think Bogut would help our offense. He shoots at a much higher percentage (about 70 percentage points higher), even though he has a bad shot, because he pretty much sticks to good shots. He takes fewer shots than Josh, so someone else on this team will get more shots (Teague? Horford?). He'd set up on the interior, where no one else on our team positions himself, so the spacing would be much better. He gets many more offensive rebounds, because he's inside more, and his OR numbers have improved over his career. Smith gets fewer and they're going down.

On defense, Bogut is a better interior player. Josh is a weakside shot blocker but big men can back him down and go up in his face because they're stronger. Bogut is the 2nd best defensive Center in the NBA.

In the NBA, it's either get the premier talent in existence or get a good big man. We have neither at this time. Bogut would make us a better team.

Sure, Josh is better, but we're a slave to his moods. When he wants to play, he's golden. If you consider his bad games as him playing injured (emotionally), then his down time compares to Bogut's.

Start low in our offer: Marvelous/Kirk/pick, for example, but give them Josh if they insist.

ATL Boy wrote:If we call and they ask for Smith or Horford Sund better hang up. Also if we do trade for him we better not take back any bad deals unless one of our bad deals is getting shipped out also. To me Bogut has lost virtually all trade value because of all the injuries

HMFFL wrote:I have little to no interest in Bogut. The only way I would listen is if Joe Johnson is involved. I know others here would like to acquire him but Joe has to be involved or it's nothing for me.

+1000

as bad as Marvin is, he is still 100 times better than No-guts

fullcourt wrote:

ATL Boy wrote:If we call and they ask for Smith or Horford Sund better hang up. Also if we do trade for him we better not take back any bad deals unless one of our bad deals is getting shipped out also. To me Bogut has lost virtually all trade value because of all the injuries

HMFFL wrote:I have little to no interest in Bogut. The only way I would listen is if Joe Johnson is involved. I know others here would like to acquire him but Joe has to be involved or it's nothing for me.

+1000

as bad as Marvin is, he is still 100 times better than No-guts

LOL.

parson wrote:Mark me down as one who would trade Josh Smith for Bogut. Considering Bogut's recent health problems, I'd ask for a pick (or 2) but I would see the move as a team upgrade.

Josh is posting numbers that are only a little bit better than Bogut's (14.7 pts/ 7.9 reb to 12.7/9.3 -- Bogut is the same as Josh in recent years in blocked shots).

I think Bogut would help our offense. He shoots at a much higher percentage (about 70 percentage points higher), even though he has a bad shot, because he pretty much sticks to good shots. He takes fewer shots than Josh, so someone else on this team will get more shots (Teague? Horford?). He'd set up on the interior, where no one else on our team positions himself, so the spacing would be much better. He gets many more offensive rebounds, because he's inside more, and his OR numbers have improved over his career. Smith gets fewer and they're going down.

On defense, Bogut is a better interior player. Josh is a weakside shot blocker but big men can back him down and go up in his face because they're stronger. Bogut is the 2nd best defensive Center in the NBA.

In the NBA, it's either get the premier talent in existence or get a good big man. We have neither at this time. Bogut would make us a better team.

Sure, Josh is better, but we're a slave to his moods. When he wants to play, he's golden. If you consider his bad games as him playing injured (emotionally), then his down time compares to Bogut's.

Places I disagree...

Josh has everaged over 15 points per game as the 3rd scoring option for 6 years straight now. Bogut has only done it ONCE in his career as the second(at worse) scoring option on their team. Bogut was a full time starter from Jump while Josh was not, so the doing career numbers doesn't really show a true measure

Bogut is no where near the 2nd best defender at the C position in the league. Bynum, Dwight, Chandler, Brown, Gasol, Jordan, Dalenbert, Noah, Anthony, just to name a few are all MUCH better defenders than Andrew Bogut.

On top of all that, you don't trade a defensive presence that is putting up better numbers while being healthy for a injury prown underperforming Center. I would trade for Kaman before I did that as he is better offensively and a better rebounder.

Rip, Josh is a great shot blocker but he is in no way an interior defender. He's too easily beaten by bigger men down low. He's not a Center.

Bogut IS a Center and a true defensive stopper on the inside.

Even at Josh's (slightly) better numbers, the defensive addition DOWN LOW that Bogut brings is just what we need. I noticed you didn't argue with the remainder of my argument. I think they are a big part of what makes Bogut better for us.

Bogut/Horford or Horford/Josh? Which is better?

AND if we can make the trade without losing a pick, we can tank (with Horford and Bogut out) and have a better draft pick, to boot.

parson wrote:Rip, Josh is a great shot blocker but he is in no way an interior defender. He's too easily beaten by bigger men down low. He's not a Center.

Bogut IS a Center and a true defensive stopper on the inside.

Even at Josh's (slightly) better numbers, the defensive addition DOWN LOW that Bogut brings is just what we need. I noticed you didn't argue with the remainder of my argument. I think they are a big part of what makes Bogut better for us.

Bogut/Horford or Horford/Josh? Which is better?

AND if we can make the trade without losing a pick, we can tank (with Horford and Bogut out) and have a better draft pick, to boot.

Bogut's strong side and weak side defense is alot worst than Josh (and Horford). their is a reason why Milwaukee has one of the league's worst Opponents' FG% in the paint. Bogut (and Okafor) gets alot of meaningless blocks, that alot of ignorant fans thinks translates into "good" defense.

guys like Noah, Chandler, and KG (Celtics's version not Wolves) might not get as many blocks as Bogut, or Okafor, but Noah, Chandler and KG are the only real "anchors" of a defense.

if Bogut is really the second best center, then he shouldn't have a problem in carrying so scrubs into the playoffs, but he can for a reason. Bogut obviously makes the Hawks worst offensively. Defensively, Bogut also takes the Hawks back a step.

fullcourt wrote:

parson wrote:Rip, Josh is a great shot blocker but he is in no way an interior defender. He's too easily beaten by bigger men down low. He's not a Center.

Bogut IS a Center and a true defensive stopper on the inside.

Even at Josh's (slightly) better numbers, the defensive addition DOWN LOW that Bogut brings is just what we need. I noticed you didn't argue with the remainder of my argument. I think they are a big part of what makes Bogut better for us.

Bogut/Horford or Horford/Josh? Which is better?

AND if we can make the trade without losing a pick, we can tank (with Horford and Bogut out) and have a better draft pick, to boot.

Bogut's strong side and weak side defense is alot worst than Josh (and Horford). their is a reason why Milwaukee has one of the league's worst Opponents' FG% in the paint. Bogut (and Okafor) gets alot of meaningless blocks, that alot of ignorant fans thinks translates into "good" defense.

guys like Noah, Chandler, and KG (Celtics's version not Wolves) might not get as many blocks as Bogut, or Okafor, but Noah, Chandler and KG are the only real "anchors" of a defense.

if Bogut is really the second best center, then he shouldn't have a problem in carrying so scrubs into the playoffs, but he can for a reason. Bogut obviously makes the Hawks worst offensively. Defensively, Bogut also takes the Hawks back a step.

LMAO at the Josh lovers. Bogut is superior to Josh defensively. Josh does not guard man to man well and he really does not help well in any situation that does not create a chance for him to get a block. Does not show well on pick and rolls, etc. Josh is the one track minded defender.

^I completely agree with you there. It pains me to watch Josh play most of the time.

On the other hand, Bogut for me is just too injury prone, and the risk having him with Joe Johnson is far too great.

bogut would have to be a whole lot better offensively for the hawks to take on that high paid injury risk and give up a high value player like josh

I would do it for Joe or marvin though

id prefer to trade Al for bogut then josh as well

Rip2137 wrote:Bogut is no where near the 2nd best defender at the C position in the league. Bynum, Dwight, Chandler, Brown, Gasol, Jordan, Dalenbert, Noah, Anthony, just to name a few are all MUCH better defenders than Andrew Bogut.

On top of all that, you don't trade a defensive presence that is putting up better numbers while being healthy for a injury prown underperforming Center. I would trade for Kaman before I did that as he is better offensively and a better rebounder.

I'm not here to start trouble but I couldn't just let this one go lol. Maybe the most ignorant post I've ever read on realgm, and believe me that's saying something, though fullcourt had a go at topping it a couple of posts later so I'll just respond to you both in one post. If you don't know anything about a player and want to post on him you have two choices, you can either do some research on him and make a semi-informed assessment or you can post blindly and hope that no one who has ever seen the guy play reads your post. You chose poorly lol.

There is exactly one guy on that list who has as much impact as Bogut defensively, Dwight Howard. The others are not in either of their leagues defensively and some of them are absolute hilarity. DeAndre Jordan and Joakim Noah lol, are you high?

Bogut is the best help defender in basketball, period, and a top 5 overall defender without question. He blocked close to 3 shots a game the last few seasons and yet his help defense on the floor is FAR superior to his shotblocking, the Bucks are a top 2 defensive team with him and a top 20 defensive team without him, there are literally 5 years of blatantly obvious stats you could have checked on this. He anchors that team defense at an elite level and suggesting he isn't a defensive anchor is just flat out wrong, literally the Bucks entire defense revolves around him.

Even if you totally ignore his help defense which is clearly the strongest part of his D and look purely at opponent man defense numbers he still comes out well on top of almost all of those guys you listed. Let's look at just one of the 20 or so stats you could have used to compare them, Opponent PER for this season and last season -

Bogut - 13.1, 13.9
Chandler - 14.1, 17.4
Bynum - 13.3, 11.9
Gasol - 14.0, 13.8
Jordan - 18.2, 15.8
Dalambert - 14.7, 14.7
Noah - 17.7, 18.2
Anthony - 15.5, 14.1
Dwight - 13.2, 11.8

So even though Bogut is clearly the best help defender of the group and therefore spends a fair bit more time helping off his man than the others Bynum is the only guy outside of Dwight to restrict his man to as low an opponent PER over the past two seasons.

Suggesting that the Hawks defense would actually be worse by adding Bogut and taking out anyone at all is beyond laughable, saying you'd trade for Chris Kaman over him for on court reasons is just the icing on the cake

My only real concern with a trade for Bogut is inability to stay on the court. It's weird in that he hasn't been plagued by one injury that keeps cropping up but rather an array of different injuries indicating bad luck? He's a solid defensive center and although his offense has been off more recently I can rationalize that by going back to the lost court time. If the ASG determines that Josh is likely gone at the end of next season then it might be a good off-season deal to make.

Dude, you are just a Chris Kaman fan from 07-08, aren't you? You know when a guy that underachieves his ENTIRE CAREER has a good year and all of a sudden people completely over value's him? Bogut could only be considered a good defender ONE YEAR out of his career and that was last year. Marvin williams was well on his way to greatness in 07-08 too. Don't get fooled by small sample sizes, and his one statistically defensive impressive year out of 6 is nothing to start calling him the second best defender in the NBA.

Bogut, much like Kaman and Camby are guys where I have to throw stats out the window and watch them play. I don't care if he gets 5 blocks a game, when Mark Eaton would show on the pick and roll more than him, he is a crap defender. Not only does he not step out, he steps DOWN (again, just like Camby who actually won a defensive player of the year award doing that crap while people blamed his guards for opposing guards getting clean wide open jump shots). If he does show its this pathetic token show that is just kinda embarassing. He has gotten BETTER, but guys like Noah, Kwame Brown, Gasol, Anthony and even bad kneed Bynum are SOLID on the ball defneders that actually show, then they are better defenders. If you want to just go with help defenders, guys like Jordan, Dalambert and Gasol again are better at changing shots than Bogut, who mind you was a pretty middling shot blocker until two years ago.

Bogut is a great charge taker and can defend the rim. But the guy is down right lazy on D and the only reason most didn't notice is because he was on the team with Mo Williams and Michael Redd and Charlie Bell who were downright embarassing on D. Lazy>Embarassing. He did step it up once he got paired with a guy like Mbah a Moute(whose lack of minutes I think is actually effecting their defensinve , John Salmons and to a MUCH lesser extenet, Brandon Jennings, who actually play D for that teamBut hey, you have your stats. I guess Javale McGee(who is just HORRIBLE) is a great defender too? And I hope that last line wasn't you suggesting that Bogut is better offensively than Kaman...right?

I'm about as big a Bogut hater on the Bucks board as you will find but that entire post is absolutely foolish and negates any credibility you may have ever had.