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Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but why no talk of going after Rondo? I doubt anyone would disagree that he would drastically change the direction of this team. I don't know what BOS may want for him, but why not give them Kirk's expiring and our next 2 1st rd picks? If BOS really is going to start rebuilding and he's causing problems, then this might be a good move for them. I'd love to throw JJ at them for KG, but I don't think that makes sense for them at all. They could probably get more for just keeping him and letting him expire. Anyways, I know Smoove and Rondo go way back, and Rajan would help out guys like Marvin and McGrady get things going again. Not to mention the defensive boost we'd get too.

jagstang76 wrote:Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but why no talk of going after Rondo? I doubt anyone would disagree that he would drastically change the direction of this team. I don't know what BOS may want for him, but why not give them Kirk's expiring and our next 2 1st rd picks? If BOS really is going to start rebuilding and he's causing problems, then this might be a good move for them. I'd love to throw JJ at them for KG, but I don't think that makes sense for them at all. They could probably get more for just keeping him and letting him expire. Anyways, I know Smoove and Rondo go way back, and Rajan would help out guys like Marvin and McGrady get things going again. Not to mention the defensive boost we'd get too.

Rondo does not make this team better. We don't have anyone to finish the plays. When Horford comes back that will get better though.

Josh Smith cannot finish plays? Willie Green cannot finish plays?

Rondo would be great for us. I love Teague but Rondo would _FINALLY_ get us running. Rondo is what I dream of Teague growing up to be ... plus an outside shot.

And Marvelous can at least run, even though it's obvious his jumping is still limited by his surgery (or something).

I'd love Rondo on this team and yes jagstang that would be a good offer for him at least from our perspective. But I'd love for us to try and keep the 2012 pick but we probably won't.
Hinrich/2012 1st/2014 1st for Rondo (I don't think we can afford to not be in the draft for 4 years straight that would be dangerous). Rondo is just what this team needs. Also he could mentor Teague who would be the ideal 6th man for our team.

I Was thinking the same thing! why not? Were not going anywhere and Rondo whould make us sooooo much better! I don't know what it would take, but right now this team is un watchable

Guys I most want to trade:

JJ, Marvin ( I luv this guy, but I think he needs this) Teague & Kirk

Want to hold on to:

Josh, Al

parson wrote:Josh Smith cannot finish plays? Willie Green cannot finish plays?

Rondo would be great for us. I love Teague but Rondo would _FINALLY_ get us running. Rondo is what I dream of Teague growing up to be ... plus an outside shot.

And Marvelous can at least run, even though it's obvious his jumping is still limited by his surgery (or something).

No, Josh can not finish plays.

Superiorblogman wrote:

parson wrote:Josh Smith cannot finish plays? Willie Green cannot finish plays?

Rondo would be great for us. I love Teague but Rondo would _FINALLY_ get us running. Rondo is what I dream of Teague growing up to be ... plus an outside shot.

And Marvelous can at least run, even though it's obvious his jumping is still limited by his surgery (or something).

No, Josh can not finish plays.

See....... you are making yourself look stupid. I don't have anything to do with it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-UbIJQtAp8[/youtube]

and that was this year.

jagstang76 wrote:Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but why no talk of going after Rondo? I doubt anyone would disagree that he would drastically change the direction of this team. I don't know what BOS may want for him, but why not give them Kirk's expiring and our next 2 1st rd picks? If BOS really is going to start rebuilding and he's causing problems, then this might be a good move for them. I'd love to throw JJ at them for KG, but I don't think that makes sense for them at all. They could probably get more for just keeping him and letting him expire. Anyways, I know Smoove and Rondo go way back, and Rajan would help out guys like Marvin and McGrady get things going again. Not to mention the defensive boost we'd get too.

sure, why not try..... but Boston wouldn't accept.

1) Makes 10M a year
2) can't shoot giving defenses an easy out on how to play him
3) is considered as moody and difficult as Josh, so it is a gamble that those two personalities together can be handled by a coach let alone one as weak as Drew

He is a good PG capable of many triple doubles. He rebounds his position well and would immediately improve the offensive efficiency of our bigs by increasing the pace of the team. However he has distinct flaws in his game that he's not been able to overcome. To me Rondo would make sense if you could work a deal for Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague (not that likely). If you give up Josh, Joe, or Al it doesn't work because you need Josh and Al for the finishers for when he can get us to run and you need Joe to create his own shot when the break isn't there. That means you have to be willing to pay the luxury tax in order to try the experiment (not that likely).

As for personality either he and Josh unite to complete and push each other to new levels or they become the gold standard of coach killers. With Josh entering the final year of his deal you could get out of the combo easily, but if it works you'll need deep pockets to keep the team together more than that one year (not very likely).

Given the personality issues and the poor shooting I'm not sure if Rondo is better than Teague enough to justify the added expense. That's why I do not go after Rondo.

Evil - I respectfully disagree that Josh and Rondo would cause problems. I think they are very alike in that they are very competitive and really want to win. Steven A Smith said recently on The Herd that Rondo was causing problems early on because he felt the big 3 were getting preferential treatment. The thought that he's causing problems now is not true, rather he's showing his frustration over not winning games. Smith went on to say that he believes Rondo cannot stay with BOS because he would become a problem on a rebuilding team. Now Josh has had his problems with authority, but I haven't seen near as much under Drew. I think he also hates losing so much that his frustrations come out when things aren't going well (with the team or his game). What I do know is that his game is significantly better at a key position in this league (and for this team) that he would make us a much better team. We would effectively have 4 all-star quality players on our team. I would like to see us deal away or dump Marvin after this year and start over with someone new at the 3. We could easily save money on a young or journeyman SF who would do just as well and benefit from Rondo's presence. To me, it gives us a chance to put ourselves in the conversation for real in the East and solve issues we have failed to fix for years.

2010-2011

FGA: 25th
FTA: 29th
ORB: 29th
STL: 29th
BLK: 28th

2011-2012
FGA: 25th
FTA: 29th
ORB: 29th
STL: 29th
BLK: 28th

I think Josh Smith or Lebron James needs to be your SF if you need to cover all these bases.
Not that it's a revelation... but just seeing those numbers puts it in perspective.

myrak433 wrote:

Superiorblogman wrote:

parson wrote:Josh Smith cannot finish plays? Willie Green cannot finish plays?

Rondo would be great for us. I love Teague but Rondo would _FINALLY_ get us running. Rondo is what I dream of Teague growing up to be ... plus an outside shot.

And Marvelous can at least run, even though it's obvious his jumping is still limited by his surgery (or something).

No, Josh can not finish plays.

See....... you are making yourself look stupid. I don't have anything to do with it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-UbIJQtAp8[/youtube]

and that was this year.

we all know that Superiorblogman sucks and is moronic. i just not pay attention, like how i don't give attention to an annoying 5yr old. you can't reinforce idiotic behavior.

Superiorblogman wrote:

parson wrote:Josh Smith cannot finish plays? Willie Green cannot finish plays?

Rondo would be great for us. I love Teague but Rondo would _FINALLY_ get us running. Rondo is what I dream of Teague growing up to be ... plus an outside shot.

And Marvelous can at least run, even though it's obvious his jumping is still limited by his surgery (or something).

No, Josh can not finish plays.

Josh must have read this before he finished all over the Human Blocking machine.

You know, there are games where Josh Smith knocked down nearly every jumper he took too.

Lets be honest here, Josh Smith is not a great finisher around the basket. He has this "toss it up" shooting style around the basket that is no where near as controlled or consistant as guys that are truely great around the basket(like, say Garnett, Pierce, and Allen). The thing is, he can go 10-10 around the hoop one night and 1-10 the next night without facing any different defense.

Rip2137 wrote:You know, there are games where Josh Smith knocked down nearly every jumper he took too.

Lets be honest here, Josh Smith is not a great finisher around the basket. He has this "toss it up" shooting style around the basket that is no where near as controlled or consistant as guys that are truely great around the basket(like, say Garnett, Pierce, and Allen). The thing is, he can go 10-10 around the hoop one night and 1-10 the next night without facing any different defense.

that is not 100% true. Josh can finish around the basket. are his post moves as polished as Garnett..... hell no! but the main reason he goes 10-10 one night and 1-10 the next has nothing to do with his finishing ability. it has mostly has to do with his length, he is only 6'7". I know he is listed at 6'9' but he isn't. he can just jump out of the gym. but height does matter in basketball. so when posting up guys 6'9" or shorter he wins ( even some 6'10" guys) but he has problem doing this against guys 7'0" tall. that is why we need someone 7'0" that has a post up game. Al Jefferson would work wonders on this team. the ball could still go to smith on the left elbow and if he is doubled kick it to the perimeter on swing it over to Al Jefferson on the right elbow. easy math you can't double everyone. it is a 5 on 5 game.

Oh words can't describe how much I would love Al jefferson on this team and it would solve all our offensive woes.

But I am not talking about his post moves(which he has some pretty nice ones with some nice footwork actually). I am talking about he can't really finish with his right hand around the basket, he doesn't use the back board on ALOT of his layup attempts and ends up back rimming them, and his hook shot is just off most time. He gets most of these shots off clean or could if he had a right hand around the basket, but Josh is a good finsher when he goes up with both hands(for a dunk or a layup). everything else is a crapshoot. I think they call it a "soft touch" around the rim and Josh simply doesn't have it. Al doesn't have it either. Honestly the only one that does on this team is Joe. But watch Josh Smith around the rim and another smallish PF like a David Lee, Shawn Marion, DeJaun Blair(None of which have a polished post game) who CAN finish with both hands, uses the backboard properly and such and its night and day in terms of consistancy.

The sporatic nature of his shooting around the hoop has nothing to do with height(BTW, there is NO WAY that Josh is 6'7". I've stood next to that dude and he is every bit of 6'9") as he will struggle with 6'8 David Lee at the rim one night, but destroy a 6'11 PF from the bucks, routinely plays well against Pau Gasol or light up other very long guys.

Honestly the only one that does on this team is Joe. Its not that I don't think Josh could become a good finisher around the rim, as every so often he shows the patience and calm required to do so, but right now he isn't consistant enough to call a above average finisher at the rim outside of some standing dunks every once in awhile.

1) Josh not destroying a 6'11 PF...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzdKkxnuDuU[/youtube]

2) Pau Gasol vs. Josh Smith (Josh last good game was around 4 years ago?)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =smithjo03

3) Overall, I agree Josh is a crapshoot around the rim. Sometimes he gets caught under the rim...
Depends on matchups a lot of the time.

4) IMO Josh vs 6'10 Ibaka and 6'10 Collison was a bit better, back to the basket he bumped them and they were slow to recover. Smith used some spin moves and hit a right hand hook, then he was beating them with pump fakes...facing up. He was a crapshoot with his hook shot at times and shot under 50%.
I might make a video but its taking too long.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWulzGBsrgo[/youtube]

5) Josh is 6'7 barefoot. 6'8 in shoes.
David Lee 6'8 barefoot. 6'9 in shoes. David Lee was struggling vs Smith until he played him right.
Smith is slower than Marion
Lee is taller
and Dejuan Blair is 6'7 but has more length and is around 280 lbs

Certain teams Smith best advantage is transition, team screens/ball movement, or trying to attack from the elbow.

Iirc Numbers say Smith is an above average finisher at the rim, when assisted, or in transition but not a "go to scorer". Idk if thats what Blogman meant by "finisher".

I'm pretty sure everyone is a good finisher in transition though.

Also Rondo's assist are also a product of the fact that Boston can spread the court and let him get to the rim, if teams collape he finds the open shooter or cutter, if they don't he can finish at the rim.

Put Rondo here you can't spread the court with Josh meaning there is at least one more defender waiting. good thing is that the opposing Center can't cheat off Horford or Joe, but I think its not a coincidence that Rondo's numbers got more impressive once they got a Jumpshooter out there at the 4 or 5 instead of Perkins.

Josh is shooting above his average against Gasol. Thats playing well against a guy. Shooting below your average is not playing as well. Josh has had great FG% in 10 out of 14 matchups against Pau. Pau coincedintally( and has nothing to do with this discussion) routinely shoots below his career averages against Josh.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to show in that video of Josh vs the Bucks, but I coun'ted multiple scores, multiple drawn double teams, fouls drawn and dominance on the boards agasinst Illy....how is that NOT dominating him again? You don't exactly double a guy thats getting handled.


Josh Smith was 6'7 barefoot when he was drafted. You can clearly just look at him standing next to 6'9 Al Horford to see they are the same height.

And he had multiple drawn double teams, fouls drawn, and multiple scores on Lee.

What you see is Josh struggling to get by and create separation from David Lee.

And Joe was clearly struggling with Dominic McGuire. Marvin with Dorell.
Bigger lineup would have helped

But I wasn't saying that it was Lee that shut him down. I am saying that because he is anything but controlled in his around the basket shooting, it doesn't matter who is guarding him. Some nights he will torch a tall guy, the next night he will wiff against a short guy, then turn around and scorch that same guy next time they play. he is inconsistant because of his offensive flaws, not because of how he was being defended. Those horrible looking layup attempts he was making against Milwalkee were the ones he missed against Golden State.

Joe wasn't struggling. he never helps rebound. A opposing guard took advantage of that(and i am SHOCKED that more teams don't. He literally NEVER helps rebound and yet is never up court in transition either...I am not really sure what Joe does when a shot goes up.