Hawks are the 3rd best team in the East without Horford

[monsterblock]

Hawks are only 1.5 games behind the Magic now, with 16 games left, and this is without Horford playing for the whole season. pretty impressive.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Makes you wonder why people think Horford is the best player or that he is so important to the teams success..

[Rip2137]

I don't follow that logic. The Bulls have a great record while mssing alot of Derrick Rose. Are you ready to suggest he isn't their best player?

And I don't even think he is our best player, but he is probably the most important. I personally think we would add another 8 wins at least with him here, which is a pretty big swing for one player to make.

[MaceCase]

OT but Baseline, Fullcourt, cookiemonster or wtv it is that you go by these days.... What the hell have you been up to to get waived so many times in such a short span?

[Superiorblogman]

I can see us ending up 40-26, but I don't think Orlando goes any worse than 43-23, and I can see Indy challenging them more for the 3 spot than we can and finishing something like 43-23 also. I think Philly finishes something like us at 40-26. Boston and New York most likely will not catch us. S

So, unless we start winning on the road more often than usual, about 50% currently we have 6 games on the road. I say 3-3, or we start beating winning teams at a higher rate currently 9-16 or 36% of the time, we have 7 to 9 of our last 16 against winning teams, depending on what New York is looking like in our last 2 meetings, we aren't getting the 3 seed so it does not matter that we may be the 3rd best team we will not be treated like it.

[monsterblock]

I don't follow that logic. The Bulls have a great record while mssing alot of Derrick Rose. Are you ready to suggest he isn't their best player?

And I don't even think he is our best player, but he is probably the most important. I personally think we would add another 8 wins at least with him here, which is a pretty big swing for one player to make.

hey, nobody here is trying to politicize anything. both what the Hawks are doing and what the Bulls are doing is impressive. this thread is only giving props to the 11 other guys on the team for stepping up.

this thread is poignant because everybody months ago on the general board and the majority of poeple on the Hawks board (no including myself) were saying that the Hawks are a lotto team without Horford.

months ago, i said the Hawks are the 2nd best team in the east with Horford, 5th-6th best team without Horford, and a bubble team with any of two of the big three missing. for a team, such as the Hawks, who never had a #1 overall draft pick, the team as a whole is doing pretty good against teams that do have #1 overall picks leading their team like Dwight, Lebron, and Rose.

nobody is trying to devalue Horford. just want to post that the Hawks are doing good, and if you want to add, Bulls are doing good too.

i don't think Horford is important in beating the Magic or Bulls, but i do think he going to be the most important player when the Hawks face the Heat. Horford was practically the best player for the Hawks in that sole win against the Heat.

[Rip2137]

Makes you wonder why people think Horford is the best player or that he is so important to the teams success..

I am PRETTY sure thats devaluing Horford, which is why i responded about how that is some flawed logic.

Unless you think that quote above DOESN'T mean that he doesn't think Horford is that important to this teams success. Personally, I think these tight wins against bad teams would be bigger wins, getting our starters more rest, these tight losses against better teams would probably be tight wins, and some of these blow out losses would be tighter games and who knows what comes of that.

It is impressive what the hawks are doing but that quote above is one of the many who seem to now think Horford is not that important to this team. Swap him and zaza and the spacing on the court improves immediately so alot of those lost offensive possessions turn to baskets. He finishes a MILLION times better than Zaza and finishes strong(the guy gets alot of and-1's) and is a solid freethrow shooter. At the very least he rebounds on par with Zaza and is a better defender. Plus our back up big becomes Zaza instantly upgrading our depth.

I never said YOU were downplaying him, but it was said.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Makes you wonder why people think Horford is the best player or that he is so important to the teams success..

I am PRETTY sure thats devaluing Horford, which is why i responded about how that is some flawed logic.

Unless you think that quote above DOESN'T mean that he doesn't think Horford is that important to this teams success. Personally, I think these tight wins against bad teams would be bigger wins, getting our starters more rest, these tight losses against better teams would probably be tight wins, and some of these blow out losses would be tighter games and who knows what comes of that.

It is impressive what the hawks are doing but that quote above is one of the many who seem to now think Horford is not that important to this team. Swap him and zaza and the spacing on the court improves immediately so alot of those lost offensive possessions turn to baskets. He finishes a MILLION times better than Zaza and finishes strong(the guy gets alot of and-1's) and is a solid freethrow shooter. At the very least he rebounds on par with Zaza and is a better defender. Plus our back up big becomes Zaza instantly
I never said YOU were downplaying him, but it was said.

Wait a minute, I never attempted to degrade or value him. All I said was he isn't the sole reason the Hawks have success. As mentioned, so many people thought the Hawks were a lotto bound team without Horford, but yet they are right behind the magic and currently playing strong. Would Horford make this team better? Of course he would, but swap Horford with Smith and we are probably an 7th- 8th seed..

[HMFFL]

Hawks are only 1.5 games behind the Magic now, with 16 games left, and this is without Horford playing for the whole season. pretty impressive.

My problem with this is the ownership and if they truly believe the team is a championship contender.

[parson]

Makes you wonder why people think Horford is the best player or that he is so important to the teams success..

Wait a minute, I never attempted to degrade or value him. All I said was he isn't the sole reason the Hawks have success. As mentioned, so many people thought the Hawks were a lotto bound team without Horford, but yet they are right behind the magic and currently playing strong. Would Horford make this team better? Of course he would, but swap Horford with Smith and we are probably an 7th- 8th seed..

Maybe you didn't mean what you wrote, but that's what you wrote. You wrote that you "wonder why people think" he's "so important to the teams success." If he's not so important, then he's .... what?

You understand our confusion?

[evildallas]

What excites me is the prospect of Horford reintegrating with the team. I'm hopeful he can do it without Zaza and Ivan regressing or losing all their minutes and with Josh staying new, dominant Josh. With the way Zaza has stepped up at center, even with the missed bunnies and occasional lost handles, he's playing at level higher than any center we could hope to land in the off-season. Larry Drew just needed his hand forced to give Zaza the consistent minutes to prove it.

More than likely if the reintegration happens during the playoffs this year the Hawks will struggle with it because it will be hard for Drew to know how much to play each player and even the offensive sets he uses could possibly make things worse. The real hope is for next year (if they don't trade Josh) and the prospect of one last year with all hands on deck. Of course that team will have the challenge of redoing the bench again with 1 year veteran contracts like this season. Hard to imagine it working as well next time.

[MaceCase]

Best case scenario is that LD brings Al off the bench to spell Josh and Zaza. Eliminate Collins minutes altogether and he also doesn't have to overextend Ivan's energy minutes or be forced into playing Vlad against bigger lineups. Having even a rusty Al and Marvin off the bench to go along with Pargo and Green is a unit that I'd feel more than comfortable battling Chicago's or Philly's depth, both of whom could be our most likely opponents in the playoffs.

[Ruhiel]

Hawks are only 1.5 games behind the Magic now, with 16 games left, and this is without Horford playing for the whole season. pretty impressive.

Heat
Bulls
Magic
Hawks

60% Winning % is impressive to me 50 games in... but we still don't have the 3rd seed till we have the 3rd seed.

No need to jinx it!

[Geaux_Hawks]

Makes you wonder why people think Horford is the best player or that he is so important to the teams success..

Wait a minute, I never attempted to degrade or value him. All I said was he isn't the sole reason the Hawks have success. As mentioned, so many people thought the Hawks were a lotto bound team without Horford, but yet they are right behind the magic and currently playing strong. Would Horford make this team better? Of course he would, but swap Horford with Smith and we are probably an 7th- 8th seed..

Maybe you didn't mean what you wrote, but that's what you wrote. You wrote that you "wonder why people think" he's "so important to the teams success." If he's not so important, then he's .... what?

You understand our confusion?

Honestly, I can't see your confusion because like i said, many people thought the Hawks were screwed when Horford went down. Now they are 4th in the east with a fair shot at 3rd and Horford has only played 12 games. Last year with a beat up lineup the Hawks finished 5th with a healthy Horford for most of the season. Horford plays a role in the Hawks success, but it isn't the one most people think. We are a better team no doubt, but we can win without him.

[johnny878]

Horford was way over valued.

The guy can not create his own shot. And isnt great defensively.

It is absolutely insane he got as hyped up as he did. All he has his good hands to finish open looks around the basket. and that 12-15 foot jump shot he has going on.

HOWEVER, every single year in the playoffs. Teams play tighter D in the playoffs and horford doesnt get as many open looks for his jump shot and gimmie lay ups. And he is absolutely dreadful.

Every **** year, he has been the worst player on the court in the playoffs except for the Boston series.

[Jamaaliver]

Guys. As of today, March 29th, the Hawks are 23-18 without Horford.

5 games over .500. Let's not get carried away.

The Bulls are winning games like crazy without Derrick Rose (6-2 in the last two weeks). You don't hear Bulls fans suggesting they go compete for te title without the reigning MVP.

Horford is our best POST defender. (Smoove is only 6'9" and 225 pounds.)

He has a consistent jump shot and works the boards/blocks out beter than anyone else on the team.

Do you guys REALLY think we're better off with Zaza starting over Horford?

Really? REALLY?

<sigh>

[monsterblock]

Guys. As of today, March 29th, the Hawks are 23-18 without Horford.

5 games over .500. Let's not get carried away.

The Bulls are winning games like crazy without Derrick Rose (6-2 in the last two weeks). You don't hear Bulls fans suggesting they go compete for te title without the reigning MVP.

Horford is our best POST defender. (Smoove is only 6'9" and 225 pounds.)

He has a consistent jump shot and works the boards/blocks out beter than anyone else on the team.

Do you guys REALLY think we're better off with Zaza starting over Horford?

Really? REALLY?

<sigh>

Oh my god!... how many times to i have to say that nobody is trying to devalue Horford

<sigh> please re-read the first page before posting

what is wrong with giving props to the 11 other guys for doing a good job and being short handed

[Rip2137]

Dude, for the second time you are ignoring the post he responded after. The dude JUST pretty much said Horford sucks. The post RIGHT before his says horford is a bad rebounder, defender and was the worse player on the court every year in the playoffs (completely ignoring how good he was in the 2010 season for some reason..) Every response in the thread isn't directly at you. We know YOU are saying that, but clearly others are saying he sucks and thats why we are winning without him.

[Jamaaliver]

Yeah, Monsterblock.

I'm replying to Johnny878 who actually IS trying to devalue Horford.

Horford was way over valued.

The guy can not create his own shot. And isnt great defensively.

It is absolutely insane he got as hyped up as he did. All he has his good hands to finish open looks around the basket. and that 12-15 foot jump shot he has going on.

HOWEVER, every single year in the playoffs. Teams play tighter D in the playoffs and horford doesnt get as many open looks for his jump shot and gimmie lay ups. And he is absolutely dreadful.

Every **** year, he has been the worst player on the court in the playoffs except for the Boston series.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Not trying to say you don't have a valid argument, but the Bulls are Damn good defensive team without even having Rose on the court. They live by playing amazing defense. Rose just provides the extra offense they need to outscore an opponent. Other than that, the Bulls could survive a small stretch of games without Rose because of their d. They are easily a 7 or 8 seed in the East without him and maybe 5 or 6 seed if they're lucky..