RealGM

Should we totally blow it up or not? When I say blow it up I mean to the core every starter and contract other than minimum level type guys

Please give a detail reason for your stance.

if their is a taker for Joe, then defiantly maybe, but i wouldn't move Josh or Horford just for a "par" center. Teague is a keeper, unless a miracle happens and Deron wants to join the Hawks for god knows what reason.

Kirk, Marvin, and Zaza will walk to help resign Teague.

Hawks' identity is that they are a good team with no top 10 player, and i don't see Horford, Josh, or Joe landing a top 10 player in a trade.

I vote to blow it up because I just don't want the reminder of these failures. Yes, the refs took game 6 and I will not watch another NBA game this year but we had our chances also.

If we keep this team together there will always be a excuse our someone to play the blame with.

Teague will never be a pure PG so he will always be blamed for that.

Joe will never live up to that contract so he will always get blame for that.

Marvin will never be worthy of his draft position so he will always get blame for that.

Josh will always get called out on bad decisions because of all the previous experience he has with making them and people will always claim he needs to play SF when he gets abused at PF.

Al will never be Center enough so he will always need to get move to PF when things go wrong.

Zaza will always be nothing more than a backup when things go wrong.

LD and Sund will never be able to get us over the top when things go wrong because that will just always be the popular opinion due to these failures.

The ASG is another story we can't blow them up unfortunately.

At the end of the day in my opinion we have to blow this up in order to kill the excuses because just getting Steve Nash, Deron Williams, or Andre Miller and now saying look we have a true floor general is not going to be enough then you are going to go right back to making excuses and calling out the remaining players and putting it on them.

dtown8 wrote:if their is a taker for Joe, then defiantly, but i wouldn't Josh or Horford just for a "par" center.

That's not the definition of blowing it up in this thread. Blowing it up means get rid of everyone under contract other than minimum level guys

I say no.... because we will not be able to get equal value for any player on this team. so why should we blow it up? who is going to take JJ contract? no-one. What could we get for Smith that would be worthy of trading him? nothing. We may be able to move Horford for something worthwhile. maybe Pau Gasol and then try to move Teague and draft pick for Nash. Then try to move Marvin and another draft pick for Al Jefferson. Then we would be

Nash/ Pargo
JJ/ Green
Smith/ ?? Maybe T-mac
Gasol/ ??
Jefferson/ Zaza

I think that is a better team.

myrak433 wrote:I say no.... because we will not be able to get equal value for any player on this team. so why should we blow it up? who is going to take JJ contract? no-one. What could we get for Smith that would be worthy of trading him? nothing. We may be able to move Horford for something worthwhile. maybe Pau Gasol and then try to move Teague and draft pick for Nash. Then try to move Marvin and another draft pick for Al Jefferson. Then we would be

Nash/ Pargo
JJ/ Green
Smith/ ?? Maybe T-mac
Gasol/ ??
Jefferson/ Zaza

I think that is a better team.

In what world is that a better team? Obviously your world but I would respectively like to know what your world consists of if you think that is a better team. That team is softer than what we currently have and significantly worse defensively.

Blow it up? Yes. Every starter? ROFL no.

azuresou1 wrote:Blow it up? Yes. Every starter? ROFL no.

Well, don't vote in my poll. It's either all or nothing.

Superiorblogman wrote:

myrak433 wrote:I say no.... because we will not be able to get equal value for any player on this team. so why should we blow it up? who is going to take JJ contract? no-one. What could we get for Smith that would be worthy of trading him? nothing. We may be able to move Horford for something worthwhile. maybe Pau Gasol and then try to move Teague and draft pick for Nash. Then try to move Marvin and another draft pick for Al Jefferson. Then we would be

Nash/ Pargo
JJ/ Green
Smith/ ?? Maybe T-mac
Gasol/ ??
Jefferson/ Zaza

I think that is a better team.

In what world is that a better team? Obviously your world but I would respectively like to know what your world consists of if you think that is a better team. That team is softer than what we currently have and significantly worse defensively.

that is team is not softer than the one we have now.... at least with this team we would be able to score inside. and we would have someone on the team that would run a damn offensive play instead of just going ISO every play. but Superiorblogman what would you have the Hawks do? build a team with draft picks and trades you would like to Hawks to do and then lest get the opinion of this board. on which team would be better with realistic moves........

myrak433 wrote:

Superiorblogman wrote:

myrak433 wrote:I say no.... because we will not be able to get equal value for any player on this team. so why should we blow it up? who is going to take JJ contract? no-one. What could we get for Smith that would be worthy of trading him? nothing. We may be able to move Horford for something worthwhile. maybe Pau Gasol and then try to move Teague and draft pick for Nash. Then try to move Marvin and another draft pick for Al Jefferson. Then we would be

Nash/ Pargo
JJ/ Green
Smith/ ?? Maybe T-mac
Gasol/ ??
Jefferson/ Zaza

I think that is a better team.

In what world is that a better team? Obviously your world but I would respectively like to know what your world consists of if you think that is a better team. That team is softer than what we currently have and significantly worse defensively.

that is team is not softer than the one we have now.... at least with this team we would be able to score inside. and we would have someone on the team that would run a damn offensive play instead of just going ISO every play. but Superiorblogman what would you have the Hawks do? build a team with draft picks and trades you would like to Hawks to do and then lest get the opinion of this board. on which team would be better with realistic moves........

Tell me this? Why in the world would I want to build a team around keeping Joe and Josh who are two of our worst thought of players because of Joe"s contract and Josh"s poor rep. I can understand if you say because we will probably not get anything for them. Other than that it makes no sense to build around your two most dysfunctional pieces.

Trade Everyone not to get better or compete but to clear the book as much as possible of cap room and just start over. You don't draw well. We are like 23 or something in attendance out of 30 teams with all that payroll. Plus, we have maxed out. Give the people one last chance with a team they can grow with and maybe love this time. No, you will not get value for Josh, Al, nor Joe but that is not the objective. The objective is to clear cap space and get draft picks. The person or warm body coming back does not matter. I am sure we could load up on draft picks by trading Josh and Al alone. The only thing we can do with Joe is to amnesty him, but we must clear the books before doing that so it does not hurt that much. We have only like 6 players under contract. I can remember the Heat giving away Beasley just to get him off the books. Maybe they got a 1st out of him. If they can get a 1st out of him I am sure we can get atleast 2 for Josh and 2 or 3 for Al. Teague has a great contract and will be easy to trade. Marvin will need to be attached to Josh or Al. Zaza has a great contract and is easy to trade. Like I say, amnesty Joe after clearing the books.

No because blowing a team up never leads to anything but long droughts and failure. Detroit is still in the midst of "blowing it up" right now.

I have no interest in seeing the team go through another 8 years of sub 20 win teams.

But at the same time, we cant always be the team that gets kicked out in the 1st or 2nd round (that how the owners think about it), that is going to make fans wonder if they can even make it to the top. I say Blow it up but this time, do it right.

I am in favor of retooling rather than blowing things up. First, I don't see a way for us to "blow-up" things with the contracts we have. We may be able to amnesty Marvin and save luxury tax on him in order to bring some more help. I really want to see this team focus on the draft to get better. I'd like to see us draft Doron Lamb (who probably will be available at our pick) and reinforce our bench with young talent. We will be saving some money on Hinrich's contract coming off the books. We have 6 players under contract, and everyone else is coming off the books. Perhaps a playoff team would consider giving us a 1st for Josh's services for one year, but I say keep him and see what happens.

I would be willing to miss the playoffs one year in an effort to retool and get a better draft pick in 2013. It might mean trading away a key asset like Josh in order to get help sooner, but he's the one tweener on the roster. I'd like to see us move him for a pick, get a C with that pick, move Al to 4, and take a dip in wins to get a better pick next offseason. That would mean 3 decent picks in 2 years that would change the chemistry of the team.

It is impossible to "blow it up" because Joe and Marvelous are not tradeable. We can only self-destruct by giving away Horford/Smith/Teague.

What good is it to give away the best players/talent we have, while keeping the problems?
Money? We'll still have Joe's contract.
Youth? We'll be trading our younger players and keeping our older.
To improve our attitude? Horford and Smith are our toughest, mentally.

Get a stinking Center.

Draft one. Draft a couple. Give Joe to CHI for backups and Asik - take CHI's trash to get Asik.

Get... a ... Center.

NekiEcko wrote: I say Blow it up but this time, do it right.

There's no such thing. There's only getting lucky with draft picks. If it were that simple, there'd be no bad teams.

Rip2137 wrote:No because blowing a team up never leads to anything but long droughts and failure. Detroit is still in the midst of "blowing it up" right now.

I have no interest in seeing the team go through another 8 years of sub 20 win teams.

Absolutely wrong. Detroit refused and actually still refuses to blow it up and instead attempted to reload right away from their last core. You don't throw the type of contracts that they have at Vilanueva, Gordon, Prince, Rip and Stuckey and say that they are rebuilding....it just doesn't make sense.



Either way, whether people like it or not the team is in the same boat as Washington, Charlotte, and Portland where they will be forced to rebuild but just like Detroit and New Jersey/Brooklyn they are pretending like they don't.

The options are:

A) Trade top assets for lesser parts but greater flexibility

B) Spend like the Lakers and Mavericks even though the Lakers and Mavericks can't spend like they used to

C) Hope a Pau Gasol deal comes along for Marvin, Zaza and the rights to Sergiy Gladyr

D) Just miss out on a year in the playoffs and win the lottery a la the Bulls

E) be forced into a rebuild because the team lacked the resources to retain assets and didn't have the wherewithal to obtain future assets for them outside of a hastily cobbled together TPE and lower rung 2nd round pick.

I voted with your instructions in mind, even though I find it unrealistic to accomplish. I still came up with no. Total blow up is going to take 5+ years to get back to this point with some luck. I'm not sure I've got enough years left in me to see this team contend if blown up again. I feel we have 1 more year of window on this roster. We should use that and then consider the blow up next summer.

MaceCase wrote:

Rip2137 wrote:No because blowing a team up never leads to anything but long droughts and failure. Detroit is still in the midst of "blowing it up" right now.

I have no interest in seeing the team go through another 8 years of sub 20 win teams.

Absolutely wrong. Detroit refused and actually still refuses to blow it up and instead attempted to reload right away from their last core. You don't throw the type of contracts that they have at Vilanueva, Gordon, Prince, Rip and Stuckey and say that they are rebuilding....it just doesn't make sense.

I know your idea of a Blowup is to trade all the players on contract, but seeing as that has literally never happened in the history of ever, you have to be realistic.

Trading Billups, Wallace, and letting Rasheed walk definately constitutes a blowup. Trading your best players to get "better" seldom ends in you actually getting better. Thats just how it has always gone. Your best hope is to look for teams looking to dump salaries of still useful vets(like Boston did) or just clearing capspace in hopes to drawing free agents(Like Miami did) or tanking hoping you get a once in a decade game changer (like Chicago did). The chicago method? Yeah, that leads to you being constantly horrible for 9 out of 10 times.

Rip2137 wrote:

MaceCase wrote:

Rip2137 wrote:No because blowing a team up never leads to anything but long droughts and failure. Detroit is still in the midst of "blowing it up" right now.

I have no interest in seeing the team go through another 8 years of sub 20 win teams.

Absolutely wrong. Detroit refused and actually still refuses to blow it up and instead attempted to reload right away from their last core. You don't throw the type of contracts that they have at Vilanueva, Gordon, Prince, Rip and Stuckey and say that they are rebuilding....it just doesn't make sense.

I know your idea of a Blowup is to trade all the players on contract, but seeing as that has literally never happened in the history of ever, you have to be realistic.

Trading Billups, Wallace, and letting Rasheed walk definately constitutes a blowup. Trading your best players to get "better" seldom ends in you actually getting better. Thats just how it has always gone. Your best hope is to look for teams looking to dump salaries of still useful vets(like Boston did) or just clearing capspace in hopes to drawing free agents(Like Miami did) or tanking hoping you get a once in a decade game changer (like Chicago did). The chicago method? Yeah, that leads to you being constantly horrible for 9 out of 10 times.

No, blowing up literally means to rebuild from an old core and yes........That has only happened a billion times in the history of the league It's happened to the Hawks twice alone in the past 10-15 years.

You demolish a building, guess what? You can't renovate it if it's a pile of rocks. Now if you are trying to renovate a dilapidated building by taking out some rot and changing light fixtures then that is a different story but if the foundation and frame is shaky you are only delaying the inevitable and sinking money into something that's bound to fall soon.

The Pistons let Wallace walk a long time ago yet were still going to the ECF. They then trade Billups and then let Sheed walk only to use the cap to resign Rip, Prince and Stuckey and bring in Gordon and Villanueva in for a lot of money to replace the other guys.....That is not rebuilding, that is trying to retool on the fly. Just keeping parts of an aging/failing core and attempting to add pieces to them as window dressing. That is exactly what plenty are suggesting the Hawks do and that has been proven to fail just as often.

C's fan here. I think you guys could make a pretty strong pitch to the Lakers for Gasol. Something like Smith/Williams for Pau. The Lakers need athleticism/dynamism in their frontcourt; the Hawks need an efficient anchor for their offense.