Do The Hawks Retool or Rebuild

truehawksfan121 · Post #1 » by **truehawksfan121** » Mon May 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Right now the hawks are at a crossroads. The team core they have assembled has taken them the farthest they gone go. It's time to retool or rebuild the roster. Josh smith and Jeff Teague are the only tradeable assets they have. But here are some questions the hawks are going to answer going into the off season.

Is Jeff Teague our pg of the future. What can we expect from him. Next year can we count on him to get 15 and 5 assist with 2 steals. Or is he gone be inconsistent like he was this year. Did we see enough from him to to say he is our future. He is eligible for an extension. Do u give him an low ball offer now or do u roll the dice he have a good year and u end up having to break the bank on him.

Josh Smith is the longest tenure hawk on the team and our best overall overall player. His time in Atlanta has come to an end. He is our best trade assets and next year when contract is up he is going to want a raise. he still wants to be traded. The problem comes what to trade him for. Teams will not give us a top 10 center for him. They are trying to resign there own centers. Do u still trade josh if u don't get equal value for him. Exactly what kind of center do the hawks go for.

Do we amnesty Marvin Williams. He has no good trade value, the only thing u can get for him is another bad contract. He is hurting the team more than he is helping. His defense is average at best. And u can't pay somebody 8 million to shoot 3 in the corner. The only problem about amnesty Marvin is Joe contract. In 2 years Joe contract is going to be a major problem. Do we wait and use our amnesty clause on joe. Or do we Use it on the useless Marvin williams

So far they started the off season off wrong by picking up drew option. They did not even try to look for a better coach. He did not do anything to show me he deserved another year. This year the hawks had the opportunity to reach the conference finals, something that hasn't happen in a long time. They could have possibly even made it to the finals. do u realize what making it to east conference finals or the NBA finals would have done for this franchise. The fans would have came back and start rooting for the team. The hawks would have gain the NBA respect. Cause the right now the NBA does not respect the hawks. If u ask me this year was an failure. He gave josh smith the green light to do whatever he wanted to do. Josh ended taking the second most long 2pt jumper in the NBA. His only weakness in his game and he shot the most. Coaches suppose to make his players play to there strengths not weakness. This is the coach I suppose to believe that is going to lead the hawks deep In to the playoffs.
As a fan how can I have hope for next season and u go do something stupid like that. What do I suppose to believe he is going to be a better coach next year.

theatlfan · Post #2 » by **theatlfan** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:40 pm

The problem with much of this is that we have to figure out our GM situation 1st. Sund's contract expires next month and he's talking retirement/consultant gig. It's hard to hire a coach - or even feel out the market for one - if the coach doesn't know whose going to be the guy that is his boss. I think our current plan (and it isn't a bad one) is if Sund does retire or take a step back, then we can give the new guy some support with Sund in a consultant role and the team in "Cruise Control" with a returning coach while the new guy learns the ropes and makes some very important decisions for the future. If Sund does come back, then we can only expect him in a short term role so expecting a new coach to jump on board for a short timer isn't a game we expect to play.

The 1st decision that will have to be made is with JJ. With his age and contract, I can't see us going through a true rebuilding effort with him on the roster. All other decisions will revolve around this decision IMO.

If we decide to trade him, we'll surely have to take a step back as a team, but it could be for the best for our long term situation. I wouldn't mind taking 1/2 (or less) value in a deal for Smoove if we move JJ. In this scenario, we could rebuild around Teague and Horford while testing out to see if Marvin has anything in the tank without having to defer to JJ and Smoove. If Marvin doesn't and the contracts we have to take back in a deal for JJ put us in the LT area, then we can amnesty Marvin since JJ's contract is off our books. If somehow Marvin proves us all wrong and he does step out, then we can keep him and let those other contracts expire.

If we won't (or can't) move JJ, then my next hope would be that we trade Smoove for as many draft picks this year as possible. The thing about this year's draft is that the rookie wage scale will expire when JJ's contract expires so we'll have the $$ to resign any draft picks that emerge as players. The obvious problem here is that teams may not want to talk JJ before the draft so we'll have to answer the keep him/lose him without knowing the entire landscape. In this situation, we're obviously going to have to retool around JJ and the draft picks will need to be able to supplement his game. Also, we'll have to keep Marvin and let him expire. Saving the amnesty for JJ's contract is simply too valuable and far outstrips the $$ that we'd save by using the amnesty on Marvin.

monsterblock · Post #3 » by **monsterblock** » Mon May 21, 2012 6:03 pm

truehawksfan121 wrote:Right now the hawks are at a crossroads. The team core they have assembled has taken them the farthest they gone go. It's time to retool or rebuild the roster. Josh smith and Jeff Teague are the only tradeable assets they have. But here are some questions the hawks are going to answer going into the off season.

Is Jeff Teague our pg of the future. What can we expect from him. Next year can we count on him to get 15 and 5 assist with 2 steals. Or is he gone be inconsistent like he was this year. Did we see enough from him to to say he is our future. He is eligible for an extension. Do u give him an low ball offer now or do u roll the dice he have a good year and u end up having to break the bank on him.

Josh Smith is the longest tenure hawk on the team and our best overall overall player. His time in Atlanta has come to an end. He is our best trade assets and next year when contract is up he is going to want a raise. he still wants to be traded. The problem comes what to trade him for. Teams will not give us a top 10 center for him. They are trying to resign there own centers. Do u still trade josh if u don't get equal value for him. Exactly what kind of center do the hawks go for.

Do we amnesty Marvin Williams. He has no good trade value, the only thing u can get for him is another bad contract. He is hurting the team more than he is helping. His defense is average at best. And u can't pay somebody 8 million to shoot 3 in the corner. The only problem about amnesty Marvin is Joe contract. In 2 years Joe contract is going to be a major problem. Do we wait and use our amnesty clause on joe. Or do we Use it on the useless Marvin williams

So far they started the off season off wrong by picking up drew option. They did not even try to look for a better coach. He did not do anything to show me he deserved another year. This year the hawks had the opportunity to reach the conference finals, something that hasn't happen in a long time. They could have possibly even made it to the finals. do u realize what making it to east conference finals or the NBA finals would have done for this franchise. The fans would have came back and start rooting for the team. The hawks would have gain the NBA respect. Cause the right now the NBA does not respect the hawks. If u ask me this year was an failure. He gave josh smith the green light to do whatever he wanted to do. Josh ended taking the second most long 2pt jumper in the NBA. His only weakness in his game and he shot the most. Coaches suppose to make his players play to there strengths not weakness. This is the coach I suppose to believe that is going to lead the hawks deep In to the playoffs.
As a fan how can I have hope for next season and u go do something stupid like that. What do I suppose to believe he is going to be a better coach next year.

Hawks are not at a "cross roads", now with the whole Rose situation, the smart move would just to keep the core together (even the bench core of Pargo/Ivan/TMac/Green) add a vet center like Camby or Ben Wallace, and the Hawks can easily cruse to #2 in the east.

Hawks will be at a "cross roads" in two years.

truehawksfan121 · Post #4 » by **truehawksfan121** » Mon May 21, 2012 7:14 pm

If we keep the same core with the same coach we will have the same results. And we will lose josh Smith next year for nothing. The hawks don't have the money to resign him. With the overall talent we have we should be consider title contenders. That's why I say make a couple of changes to the core and try to improve before u blow things up

monsterblock · Post #5 » by **monsterblock** » Mon May 21, 2012 7:39 pm

truehawksfan121 wrote:If we keep the same core with the same coach we will have the same results. And we will lose josh Smith next year for nothing. The hawks don't have the money to resign him. With the overall talent we have we should be consider title contenders. That's why I say make a couple of changes to the core and try to improve before u blow things up

it won't be the same core, because Horford was out the whole last season.

Hawks will be better than the Bulls and they were already better than the Pacers this year. Hawks were able to sweep the Pacers this year even without Horford.

If the Hawks can get a better coach, then fine, but no point in trading away talent, or trade for a lesser player because he is 7 foot, to defend a guy like Joel Anthony?!?!?!

theatlfan · Post #6 » by **theatlfan** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:14 pm

monsterblock wrote:Hawks are not at a "cross roads", now with the whole Rose situation, the smart move would just to keep the core together (even the bench core of Pargo/Ivan/TMac/Green) add a vet center like Camby or Ben Wallace, and the Hawks can easily cruse to #2 in the east.

Hawks will be at a "cross roads" in two years.

Disagree. We couldn't beat an aging BOS team without both of their starting Gs in the biggest game of the year. Horford coming back helps, but this was the year we could make some noise and, quite frankly, we blew it. I backed the team for a long time, but it's time to make some significant changes. Step 1 would be to bring in some more "TEAM/me" players, and there will need to be cuts to do it. Smoove and possibly JJ are the 1st 2.

Jajwanda · Post #7 » by **Jajwanda** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:15 pm

Which player do you guys value more Horford or Smith? Trade the lesser one for a C.

NekiEcko · Post #8 » by **NekiEcko** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:34 pm

monsterblock wrote:
truehawksfan121 wrote:If we keep the same core with the same coach we will have the same results. And we will lose josh Smith next year for nothing. The hawks don't have the money to resign him. With the overall talent we have we should be consider title contenders. That's why I say make a couple of changes to the core and try to improve before u blow things up

it won't be the same core, because Horford was out the whole last season.

Hawks will be better than the Bulls and they were already better than the Pacers this year. Hawks were able to sweep the Pacers this year even without Horford.

If the Hawks can get a better coach, then fine, but no point in trading away talent, or trade for a lesser player because he is 7 foot, to defend a guy like Joel Anthony?!?!?!

monsterblock, you are sounding like ASG right now, with that statement.

Come on, we have been on this merry-go-round for years and we need change but what is going to happen that fans will stop going to Phillps then its give Josh another reason to leave and that will leave us in pieces.

truehawksfan121 · Post #9 » by **truehawksfan121** » Mon May 21, 2012 9:09 pm

A couple of things we can do is trade josh smith to new Orleans for the 10th pick and Chris kamen.it will have to be a sign and trade since kamen is a free agent.

Or we can trade josh smith and Marvin williams to sacrmento for there lottery pick. With that we will over 31 million cap space (including a 23mil trade ex) and a top 5 pick. The new gm could do a lot with that.

Or we can trade for al Jefferson. He has become the expendable in utah and we can use his low post scoring

theatlfan · Post #10 » by **theatlfan** » Mon May 21, 2012 9:35 pm

Jajwanda wrote:Which player do you guys value more Horford or Smith? Trade the lesser one for a C.

Easier said than done. Can you really get true value for a PF when trading for a C? If the TNT board is any true indication, then the answer is a resounding "no".

truehawksfan121 wrote:A couple of things we can do is trade josh smith to new Orleans for the 10th pick and Chris kamen.it will have to be a sign and trade since kamen is a free agent.

Or we can trade josh smith and Marvin williams to sacrmento for there lottery pick. With that we will over 31 million cap space (including a 23mil trade ex) and a top 5 pick. The new gm could do a lot with that.

Or we can trade for al Jefferson. He has become the expendable in utah and we can use his low post scoring

Which of these would actually be agreed to by the trading partner? NOH doesn't want Smoove (nor should they after his comments lead everyone to believe that he'll want to play for a contender with a rabid fan base). Why would SAC want to trade for Smoove AND Marvin? They could get a better player than Marvin in FA for cheaper. As for Smoove, they appear to be reconfiguring their rebuilding plan (trading Tyreke) so would they really be in a position where they are ready to take the shot on Smoove? Personally, I wouldn't think so.

Trading for Jefferson may not be a bad move, but what do we have to interest UTH? There'd have to be a 3rd team involved who'd a) value what we have (Smoove?) over Jefferson and b) be willing to give the parts necessary for prying Jefferson away. Which brings us to the biggest problem of all - what really is Jefferson's trade value? On the TNT board, UTH fans want the value of a 20/10 C who's still in his prime. OTOH, nobody wants to give them that since he's been a guy with significant holes in his game, has seemingly worn out his welcome in his last 2 stops in his NBA career, and has an expiring contract that no one actually wants to give him a raise on. Trading for Jefferson has significant problems that I wouldn't have any desire to figure out.

Jajwanda · Post #11 » by **Jajwanda** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:37 am

As far as Marvin Williams goes, would he better suited becoming an off the bench stretch PF (Gaining a little weight too)? Also which one of Horford and Smith do the Hawks value more?

theatlfan · Post #12 » by **theatlfan** » Tue May 22, 2012 2:54 am

Jajwanda wrote:Also which one of Horford and Smith do the Hawks value more?

Most Hawks fans would agree that Horford would be the one we value more - if not for his on the court play then for his contract.

Jajwanda wrote:As far as Marvin Williams goes, would he better suited becoming an off the bench stretch PF (Gaining a little weight too)?

Honestly, we've tried just about everything with Marvin in his time here. He's played SG/SF/PF and has shown incredible flashes which is then completely forgotten by a seemingly endless amount of passivity. Marvin is the one player that frustrates me the most. I've seen him completely take over a game for a 3-4 minute stretch - and then completely disappear for the entire rest of the time he's on the court. At this point, it's prolly best to let him come off the bench and play a versatile role as any one of those positions, then when he gets back to being content to standing on the perimeter and watching the game again - bench him until he snaps out of it.

myrak433 · Post #13 » by **myrak433** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:31 am

Jajwanda wrote:Which player do you guys value more Horford or Smith? Trade the lesser one for a C.

I slightly value Smith more, because he does so much more to affect the game. but I believe we should trade one for a C. the one we move though depends on what type of C we would be getting back. Kaman, Al Jefferson, Pau Gasol type would be better paired with Smith but a McGee, DeAndre Jordan, Omer Asik, or Joakim Noah type would fit better with Horford. So it all depends what type center we can land. one with a back to the basket low post game gets rebound good to decent defender but not a real rim protector then we need to keep Smith..... if we get a shoot blocker high jumping more athletic center then we could keep horford although smith would play well with both types.

I say Keep Josh Smith and trade Horford if we can. Really I say keep both and just amnesty Marvin then try and get a center. Kaman, Spencer Hawes, Robin Lopez, Asik, Okur, Kwame Brown, and Nazr would all be good if we kept both Josh and Horford. I would go hard for Kaman though.

Skyhawk1 · Post #14 » by **Skyhawk1** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:38 pm

Marvin is a douche bag. I can't stand his lack of pride. I heard the other day the TNT crew saying that Turner (Sixers) had come along very slowly and I thought to myself, wow, what about Marvin?? Anyway, why don't we trade Josh for Gasol? We may run across the same problem the Mavs did with Odom, it's true, but it's a risk I'd take. Then the Lakers trade Bynum for Howard, suddenly they have Sessions,Kobe,Metta,Josh,Howard. We would have Teague,JJ,anyone but Marvin,Horford and Pau. Not too bad for both teams. I'd love to watch Kobe's post game interview after watching Josh take one 20 fter after another in one of those 4-15 nights lol

td00 · Post #15 » by **td00** » Tue May 22, 2012 7:39 pm

Sund would struggle trading an analog phone. This guy has no creativity and he WAY overvalues this roster.

Ask him about Bibby......the guy was in his prime when we traded him.

Ask him about Marvin.....the guy is just a model employee.....wow.

The guy can do no wrong in the eyes of the ASG. His job is his waiting on him and we will have to deal with his crack research staff when he decides we need a PF to solidify our roster...it's coming alright!

Jajwanda · Post #16 » by **Jajwanda** » Tue May 22, 2012 8:01 pm

The right player for L.A. would be Horford. Anything extra Atlanta can throw in for a Bynum swap?

Post #17 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue May 22, 2012 8:39 pm

Jajwanda wrote:The right player for L.A. would be Horford. Anything extra Atlanta can throw in for a Bynum swap?

Bynum and Josh Smith on the same team...THAT is a terrifying thought. For Hawks fans.

If Kobe and D-Fish can't keep this kid focused, how are JJ and Smoove supposed to?

evildallas · Post #18 » by **evildallas** » Tue May 22, 2012 10:11 pm

Jajwanda wrote:The right player for L.A. would be Horford. Anything extra Atlanta can throw in for a Bynum swap?

The problem would be keeping the team together for Atlanta. Teague and Horford for a true center like Bynum would make basketball sense in a vacuum, but the Hawks would then have 3 players getting or expecting the max and a bunch of holes in the lineup. Financially it would be almost impossible for our ownership to afford the salaries necessary to keep that team together. Josh Smith would have to be dealt for picks and lower cost players. In the end you wind up with Joe Johnson and Andrew Bynum with little else which I'm not sure works.

I also agree that Atlanta would have little luck keeping Bynum on task. He could be made the center of attention, but it rely on him to conduct himself professionally. Bynum reminds me of Rondo and Josh Smith. The talent is obviously there but so are the questions that make you hesitant about building a team around them.

evildallas · Post #19 » by **evildallas** » Tue May 22, 2012 10:34 pm

On the Retool or Rebuild question I'm torn. Right now I'm on the 3rd option of neither. I'm intrigued with the idea of landing a prospect center in the draft and going into next year with a starting lineup of Jeff Teague, Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Zaza Pachulia. I want Marvin coming off the bench with Ivan Johnson as the backup PF and the rookie C getting PT to develop on the job. I'd be happy to bring back Pargo and Green as the backup guards, but I'm hopeful that Hazell can make the roster as an additional shooter with some youth. I'd also like to use our 2nd rounder to land a 4 year college player either at PG or SG/SF that hopefully makes the roster. The rest of the roster would be minimum contract vets.

I realize there are problems with this strategy. Josh Smith would be in a contract year, so we might see the best possible Josh or possibly what Josh thinks is best for him which might not be the same. Then there is the real possibility of losing him for nothing or paying him the max next summer (which the team might be able to afford). Because of these possible outcomes I would shop Josh at draft time to see what I could get. I initially had my eye on Houston 2 mid-round picks, but Houston might be more interested in Pau Gasol. Toronto would be another possibility with the thought of landing James Johnson and their top 10 pick. Any trade of Josh that sets the team back likely squanders the window of winning with Joe Johnson, so if we trade Josh we should do what we can to give away Joe Johnson.

Jajwanda · Post #20 » by **Jajwanda** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:08 am

By the way is Kirk Hinrich going to be resigned and how's his defense these days. There's a young guard by the name of Andrew Goudelock out here the Lakers like and it's a shame if he can't play because he can't guard 2 guards. Steve Blake's defense was subpar.