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Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:50 pm
by HMFFL
Another Hoopsworld article so take it for what it's worth.

Hawks Use Smith, Williams as Trade Chips?

The Hawks are said to be one team placing calls to improve their draft position. They currently own the No. 23 pick. One GM said the Hawks floated the names of both Josh Smith and Marvin Williams as potential trade chips. http://www.hoopsworld.com/hawks-use-smi ... rade-chips

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:11 pm
by MaceCase
Marvin has been on the market forever and Josh is too for obvious reasons. They tried to move him to Minnesota last year for #2 so perhaps they will consider moving him to Charlotte this year for the #2 and take back Tyrus then if the Cavs take Beal instead of Barnes maybe we can move Marvin there for the #24. Can either package #23 & #24 to move up again or stand pat.

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:53 pm
by Superiorblogman
I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.

#2 Charlotte
#5 Kings
#7-30 Warriors
#8 Raps
#10 Hornets
#14-16 Rockets

Would trade anyone on this team not named Al Horford for the right deal with any of those teams.

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:11 pm
by HMFFL
Superiorblogman wrote:I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.


I agree.

We need change, Al makes the most sense to keep, so I hope we can bring in some new pieces.

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:01 pm
by ATL Boy
Superiorblogman wrote:I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.

#2 Charlotte
#5 Kings
#7-30 Warriors
#8 Raps
#10 Hornets
#14-16 Rockets

Would trade anyone on this team not named Al Horford for the right deal with any of those teams.

Agreed

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:20 pm
by Jamaaliver
I do believe we have a consensus...

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:12 pm
by Superiorblogman
Superiorblogman wrote:I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.





Would trade anyone on this team not named Al Horford for the right deal with any of those teams.


Well, we can basically take NO out of that with the #10 because they were going to use it to clear Okafor and Ariza but they just did that for Rashard Lewis expiring which is a win win for both teams. Teams are willing to make moves that we now know.

#2 Charlotte
#5 Kings
#7-30 Warriors
#8 Raps
#14-16 Rockets

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:53 am
by myrak433
Superiorblogman wrote:I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.

#2 Charlotte
#5 Kings
#7-30 Warriors
#8 Raps
#10 Hornets
#14-16 Rockets

Would trade anyone on this team not named Al Horford for the right deal with any of those teams.


I am for trading anyone on this team if it makes the Hawks better. In saying that my players I would rather trade Last ( in order from who I would trade Last)

Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Zaza, then Marvin.
the reason for me is because that is the order of our best players. Now if we were going to blow this team up then that order would change. Horford and Teague would be the only ones I would keep.
So I ask you Superiorblogman. Are you wanting to blow the team up and start over?
if that is the case I have a series of question for you
1. how long have you been a Hawks fan?
2. do you believe we will realisticly be able to move JJ contract? because if we blow it up he has to go.

and if we are not blowing it up. why is Horford the only one you don't want to trade? what does he bring to the table that can not be replaced by a lower salary player?

these same question apllies to you ATL Boy...

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:36 am
by Superiorblogman
myrak433 wrote:
Superiorblogman wrote:I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.

#2 Charlotte
#5 Kings
#7-30 Warriors
#8 Raps
#10 Hornets
#14-16 Rockets

Would trade anyone on this team not named Al Horford for the right deal with any of those teams.


I am for trading anyone on this team if it makes the Hawks better. In saying that my players I would rather trade Last ( in order from who I would trade Last)

Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Zaza, then Marvin.
the reason for me is because that is the order of our best players. Now if we were going to blow this team up then that order would change. Horford and Teague would be the only ones I would keep.
So I ask you Superiorblogman. Are you wanting to blow the team up and start over?
if that is the case I have a series of question for you
1. how long have you been a Hawks fan?
2. do you believe we will realisticly be able to move JJ contract? because if we blow it up he has to go.

and if we are not blowing it up. why is Horford the only one you don't want to trade? what does he bring to the table that can not be replaced by a lower salary player?

these same question apllies to you ATL Boy...


I respectfully ask you why you need to know these things? I then respectfully ask you why do you think that Joe and Josh are better than Al? Then I answer your questions>

#1 I moved to Atl in March 2002 been a fan for 10 years now have watched or seen in person all but I will say 20 games over that timeframe. So, I know this core and have been here through it all and more.

#2 Yes, we can definitely move Joe's contract, not for a salary dump type situation but we can get some pieces for Joe.

#3 Horford is the best piece on this team by far. Horford has been a all-star multiple times and has a good image while Josh does not and Joe is framed as a guy that is too laid back and does not have leadership skills while being overpaid. Horford is the closest thing to being unblemished as far as the media goes that we have. To put it more direct he makes us look good while the other two Josh and Joe really don't. That is the piece I would keep. Kind of like you just got your 1st management gig and you can only take one person with you. It would be the guy that works hard and the customers like also over the guys that are good but the customers aren't so happy with

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:46 am
by myrak433
Superblogman wrote

I respectfully ask you why you need to know these things? I then respectfully ask you why do you think that Joe and Josh are better than Al? Then I answer your questions>

#1 I moved to Atl in March 2002 been a fan for 10 years now have watched or seen in person all but I will say 20 games over that timeframe. So, I know this core and have been here through it all and more.

#2 Yes, we can definitely move Joe's contract, not for a salary dump type situation but we can get some pieces for Joe.

#3 Horford is the best piece on this team by far. Horford has been a all-star multiple times and has a good image while Josh does not and Joe is framed as a guy that is too laid back and does not have leadership skills while being overpaid. Horford is the closest thing to being unblemished as far as the media goes that we have. To put it more direct he makes us look good while the other two Josh and Joe really don't. That is the piece I would keep. Kind of like you just got your 1st management gig and you can only take one person with you. It would be the guy that works hard and the customers like also over the guys that are good but the customers aren't so happy with



ok so you have been through the tough years with Josh Smith and JJ. because these are the only three left from that core of not making the playoffs. Oh I forgot Zaza for one year. but for me those were some hard times, being a fan of a team the sux so much. and I am just not ready to sux as a team again.

ok now that that is out of the way... I just can't see the hawks getting anything of value for JJ. why don't you give some examples of what kind of pieces JJ would bring back.

and lastly, you have your opinion that Horford is the best piece, and I am fine with that. but do you mean he is the most talented player we have? or, he has the best image?

I know Horford has been on a few all-star teams but he is not better than JJ or Smoove. He is just not man. He is just not. And I really, really like Horford. But he is just not as good as those two. He cannot create his own shot, he can’t. Ok, if Smoove or JJ missed as much of the season as Horford did the past year??????? Do you believe the Hawks would have made the playoffs. Well yes we probably would have but I bet it would have been as the 8th seed.

And before you chop my head off I do feel that if Horford, Smoove, and JJ, and Zaza are all healthy we would have been a higher seed than 5th.

And in closing what kind of analogy is that “you just got your 1st management gig”
Yes Horford works hard and is good, but no one on this team has worked harder than Smoove every year during the season and in the off season. No one!!!! And he is better than Horford period. But me, I am taking Josh Smith with me. And as far as the customers aren’t being happy with them. It is about 50/50 on who the fans like more between Horford and Smoove. Don’t get it twisted. Just because the guys that post on here seems to like Horford more. Let me put it this way….. the hawks have more fans that do not post on realgm than fans that do post……..
Who do the fans (that really matter) you know the ones that actually come to Philips Arena cheer. Who do they cheer for the loudest when they make a great play……. Well they cheer for everyone. But Smoove makes the most spectacular players on this team. So he gets cheered for more…..
I know he gets booed from time to time when he takes ill advised shoots. But he has one us more games than Horford has.

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:56 am
by Superiorblogman
myrak433 wrote:Superblogman wrote

I respectfully ask you why you need to know these things? I then respectfully ask you why do you think that Joe and Josh are better than Al? Then I answer your questions>

#1 I moved to Atl in March 2002 been a fan for 10 years now have watched or seen in person all but I will say 20 games over that timeframe. So, I know this core and have been here through it all and more.

#2 Yes, we can definitely move Joe's contract, not for a salary dump type situation but we can get some pieces for Joe.

#3 Horford is the best piece on this team by far. Horford has been a all-star multiple times and has a good image while Josh does not and Joe is framed as a guy that is too laid back and does not have leadership skills while being overpaid. Horford is the closest thing to being unblemished as far as the media goes that we have. To put it more direct he makes us look good while the other two Josh and Joe really don't. That is the piece I would keep. Kind of like you just got your 1st management gig and you can only take one person with you. It would be the guy that works hard and the customers like also over the guys that are good but the customers aren't so happy with



ok so you have been through the tough years with Josh Smith and JJ. because these are the only three left from that core of not making the playoffs. Oh I forgot Zaza for one year. but for me those were some hard times, being a fan of a team the sux so much. and I am just not ready to sux as a team again.

ok now that that is out of the way... I just can't see the hawks getting anything of value for JJ. why don't you give some examples of what kind of pieces JJ would bring back.

and lastly, you have your opinion that Horford is the best piece, and I am fine with that. but do you mean he is the most talented player we have? or, he has the best image?

I know Horford has been on a few all-star teams but he is not better than JJ or Smoove. He is just not man. He is just not. And I really, really like Horford. But he is just not as good as those two. He cannot create his own shot, he can’t. Ok, if Smoove or JJ missed as much of the season as Horford did the past year??????? Do you believe the Hawks would have made the playoffs. Well yes we probably would have but I bet it would have been as the 8th seed.

And before you chop my head off I do feel that if Horford, Smoove, and JJ, and Zaza are all healthy we would have been a higher seed than 5th.

And in closing what kind of analogy is that “you just got your 1st management gig”
Yes Horford works hard and is good, but no one on this team has worked harder than Smoove every year during the season and in the off season. No one!!!! And he is better than Horford period. But me, I am taking Josh Smith with me. And as far as the customers aren’t being happy with them. It is about 50/50 on who the fans like more between Horford and Smoove. Don’t get it twisted. Just because the guys that post on here seems to like Horford more. Let me put it this way….. the hawks have more fans that do not post on realgm than fans that do post……..
Who do the fans (that really matter) you know the ones that actually come to Philips Arena cheer. Who do they cheer for the loudest when they make a great play……. Well they cheer for everyone. But Smoove makes the most spectacular players on this team. So he gets cheered for more…..
I know he gets booed from time to time when he takes ill advised shoots. But he has one us more games than Horford has.


Well, I don't know who the most talented is and I have to admit everyone has a considerable amount of talent at this level, I would probably give it to Josh if forced to give it to anyone, but if you are not going to use it in the most economical way you aren't going to help your team as much as you could and Josh does not use his talent in the most economical way so his talent is not always good.

You also asked what type of analogy was that. Well, you did ask if I wanted to blow it up and yes I do. So, I am just saying if I were manager and got my 1st gig and could only take one guy from when I was a manager trainee it would be the guy that customers liked and worked hard or had considerable talent himself. That is Al to me, that is what the analogy was about blowing it up and taking Al along for the rebuild. I understand that there are more Hawks fans than those that post, but I was speaking for more than just Hawks fans, NBA fans in general have a better perception of Al than Josh and the hardcore and casual fans count for a lot, they are the ones watching the NBA Finals now that don't even have a horse in the race.

Lastly, on Joe.

I could see Golden State trading us Biedrins and Richard Jefferson for Joe

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=clstah9

I could see Detroit doing Ben Gordon and Villanueva for Joe

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=7upcwkw

If we could get a lottery pick with either one of those deals we won IMO.

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:49 am
by myrak433
Lastly, on Joe.

I could see Golden State trading us Biedrins and Richard Jefferson for Joe

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=clstah9

I could see Detroit doing Ben Gordon and Villanueva for Joe

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=7upcwkw

If we could get a lottery pick with either one of those deals we won IMO.


TU'CHE.... you know what I like both of these... and we may be able to get the 30th and 35th or 52nd pick. I doubt that Detroit send the 9th, but who knows?

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:30 pm
by ATL Boy
myrak433 wrote:
Superiorblogman wrote:I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.

#2 Charlotte
#5 Kings
#7-30 Warriors
#8 Raps
#10 Hornets
#14-16 Rockets

Would trade anyone on this team not named Al Horford for the right deal with any of those teams.


I am for trading anyone on this team if it makes the Hawks better. In saying that my players I would rather trade Last ( in order from who I would trade Last)

Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Zaza, then Marvin.
the reason for me is because that is the order of our best players. Now if we were going to blow this team up then that order would change. Horford and Teague would be the only ones I would keep.
So I ask you Superiorblogman. Are you wanting to blow the team up and start over?
if that is the case I have a series of question for you
1. how long have you been a Hawks fan?
2. do you believe we will realisticly be able to move JJ contract? because if we blow it up he has to go.

and if we are not blowing it up. why is Horford the only one you don't want to trade? what does he bring to the table that can not be replaced by a lower salary player?

these same question apllies to you ATL Boy...

I dont want to blow it up because i know that even if we trade Joe we will have some bad contracts that will handicap any complete rebuilding attempt, I love Josh but the reason Im open to trading him is because he wants to leave, period; hes asked for a trade multiple times and is in his contract year. Now if we dont trade him then the only way we can keep him long term is if we give him a ridiculous contract because someone is going to overpay him, where as Al on the other hand has a great contract at 12 mil flat for 4 more years, he wants to be here, hes a 2 time all star and an all NBA 3rd teamer, and he has a great attitude and doesnt complain; Al is developed and is better than any of the players coming out of the draft with the exception of Davis. We need to shake this team up and trading Smith for a lotto pick and the possibility of getting Drummond or MKD is just the way to do it

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:02 pm
by myrak433
ATL Boy wrote:
myrak433 wrote:
Superiorblogman wrote:I'm all for moving anyone on this team other than Al.

#2 Charlotte
#5 Kings
#7-30 Warriors
#8 Raps
#10 Hornets
#14-16 Rockets

Would trade anyone on this team not named Al Horford for the right deal with any of those teams.


I am for trading anyone on this team if it makes the Hawks better. In saying that my players I would rather trade Last ( in order from who I would trade Last)

Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Zaza, then Marvin.
the reason for me is because that is the order of our best players. Now if we were going to blow this team up then that order would change. Horford and Teague would be the only ones I would keep.
So I ask you Superiorblogman. Are you wanting to blow the team up and start over?
if that is the case I have a series of question for you
1. how long have you been a Hawks fan?
2. do you believe we will realisticly be able to move JJ contract? because if we blow it up he has to go.

and if we are not blowing it up. why is Horford the only one you don't want to trade? what does he bring to the table that can not be replaced by a lower salary player?

these same question apllies to you ATL Boy...

I dont want to blow it up because i know that even if we trade Joe we will have some bad contracts that will handicap any complete rebuilding attempt, I love Josh but the reason Im open to trading him is because he wants to leave, period; hes asked for a trade multiple times and is in his contract year. Now if we dont trade him then the only way we can keep him long term is if we give him a ridiculous contract because someone is going to overpay him, where as Al on the other hand has a great contract at 12 mil flat for 4 more years, he wants to be here, hes a 2 time all star and an all NBA 3rd teamer, and he has a great attitude and doesnt complain; Al is developed and is better than any of the players coming out of the draft with the exception of Davis. We need to shake this team up and trading Smith for a lotto pick and the possibility of getting Drummond or MKD is just the way to do it


I can guarantee that someone other than Davis will be better than Horford. just not sure who. so I am with you on not trading Horford for a draft pick as the prize. I would trade him and our first for a center (Dwight) or a Center and a first round pick.

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:29 pm
by ATL Boy
Well of course nobody would pass up a Horford for Dwight trade, but in terms of draft picks Im not trading him for anything other than the number 1 pick

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:38 am
by epfou1
What are the chances that the Hawks sell their first round pick again for cash?

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:38 am
by Superiorblogman
epfou1 wrote:What are the chances that the Hawks sell their first round pick again for cash?


100 x's greater than trading up to improve there draft position.

Re: Hawks looking to improve draft position?

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:26 pm
by MaceCase
More likely to trade back for multiple picks and then sell one.