What's happening all makes sense if Josh Smith is our SF.

[parson]

I think we've built a new dynamic where Smith and Horford will be the go-to guys for this season. Against smaller teams, we can slide Horford to Center and Smith to PF to take advantage of the other team's lack of height but, most of the time, I believe we'll line up with Smith at SF and Horford at PF.

Against SFs, I hope Smith will be more willing to grind it out inside than he has been against PFs. Come to think about it, what if the main reason he's been shooting from outside is that he didn't want to keep getting beat up by bigger men?

Plus, I think he's always wanted to play SF. It may be easier to get him to re-sign if we give him the 3 slot. Looking at his shots per game, I noticed his play is very much like Carmello Anthony's (on offense). If Smith shot 2 MORE 3pters a game, his numbers would be very close to Anthony's.

1. Who here agrees that Ferry is working with Smith at SF in mind?
2. Who here agrees that Smith believes he could be an offensive force like Anthony?
3. Who here agrees that Smith may now be happy (as he has said he is) because he sees the 3 slot open to him?

Ferry may have found the best way to keep our best players (Smith and Horford) happy .... after YEARS of management putting the 2 of them in each other's way. Forget about trading Joe's contract, THAT would be Ferry's greatest accomplishment to date.

[azuresou1]

Carmelo is a far better offensive player than Josh, be serious here man. Josh is a far worse shooter, and unlike Melo can't shoot off the dribble, nor does he have the footwork to drive as well.

Realistically, Josh is not going to post up more, he's just going to jack up even more long twos, and even if he did post up, I don't know how well that'd do for the team offense. Horford can space, but not out to 3. Zaza isn't great outside of like 12 feet, and he's the only real C on the roster.

[GrimeyKidd]

Well if Smith passes more creates more ball movement and plays his part i want him at SF. It would create a new dynamic for this team

[Jamaaliver]

I just don't see it.

Josh at SF seems catastrophic at both ends.

[parson]

Guys, if we don't fit Smith into our offense as a SF, we either trade him or we trade Horford. Either way, we give up a major player. You KNOW we won't get value back in either event. We're not going to trade Smith for a star; nor, smelling our desperation, will teams trade a star to us for Horford. What was the rumor when we were talking to BOS? They were offering Bass-plus?

Smith ... and a bunch of complementary players or Horford ... and the same bunch of lesser players.

ORRRRR, we fit Smith and Horford together and have 2 young stars as our core. If things really work out, Teague will continue to grow, Jenkins becomes a starter and our team's prospects improve.

Add a Center (in free agency) and the sky's the limit.

[D21]

I think Ferry want to try Smith at SF, and the moves are going this way (I think they would have already re-sign McGrady if Josh wasn't supposed to play at SF, unless McGrady doesn't want at all to stay here, which is a possibility with the way he was used rightly then strangely last season).

I'm all for that, instead of continuing to think it's bad, but not being sure, we have to at least try it for the first month, it will help to know what player we really need to trade for or sign.

The only thing I would ask is to have Josh still posting-up, attacking the rim, but mainly taking 3s regarding long shots. If Josh work on it this summer, and systems give him the ball behind the line instead of just one foot inside, he will have a better impact easily. He doesn't have to shot 40% from 3pts, 33 to 35% would already be good if he also play near the rim.
Just stop the long 2s.

[GrimeyKidd]

Yeah i agree d21 cause when he was playing SF he attacked more. If he adds that with a post up this would be a win-win situation

[azuresou1]

It's one thing to hope Josh and Al fit together. It's an entirely different thing to hope that we can turn Josh into Carmelo + defense.

I'd be content with Josh taking half the number of long 2's that he does right now.

[Jamaaliver]

The only thing I would ask is to have Josh still posting-up, attacking the rim, but mainly taking 3s regarding long shots. If Josh work on it this summer, and systems give him the ball behind the line instead of just one foot inside, he will have a better impact easily. He doesn't have to shot 40% from 3pts, 33 to 35% would already be good if he also play near the rim.

The thing is, Josh Smith is a terrible 3pt shooter. It seems unwise to expect him to suddenly become prolific at it. His career 3pt FG% is 28%. He shot an even worse 26% from 3pt range last season.

I'm with you in favor of eliminating the long twos, but the further away from the basket he is, the less effective he is. On offense AND defense.

[parson]

It's one thing to hope Josh and Al fit together. It's an entirely different thing to hope that we can turn Josh into Carmelo + defense.

I'd be content with Josh taking half the number of long 2's that he does right now.

I never said he was as good as Anthony on offense; I said he WANTS to play the same kind of game. I think his numbers show that he tries to shoot almost the same shots - from about the same places and with almost the same frequency - as CA.

I know it's my fault: that I misrepresented my thoughts, but it's frustrating to be debating something that's not my point. I think Josh Smith wants to play a style like CA. I further think opening the SF slot for him pleased him greatly.

[dtown8]

It's one thing to hope Josh and Al fit together. It's an entirely different thing to hope that we can turn Josh into Carmelo + defense.

I'd be content with Josh taking half the number of long 2's that he does right now.

I never said he was as good as Anthony on offense; I said he WANTS to play the same kind of game. I think his numbers show that he tries to shoot almost the same shots - from about the same places and with almost the same frequency - as CA.

I know it's my fault: that I misrepresented my thoughts, but it's frustrating to be debating something that's not my point. I think Josh Smith wants to play a style like CA. I further think opening the SF slot for him pleased him greatly.

Josh will be better than Danny Granger or prime Kirilenko or prime Lamar Odom

[MaceCase]

It's one thing to hope Josh and Al fit together. It's an entirely different thing to hope that we can turn Josh into Carmelo + defense.

I'd be content with Josh taking half the number of long 2's that he does right now.

I never said he was as good as Anthony on offense; I said he WANTS to play the same kind of game. I think his numbers show that he tries to shoot almost the same shots - from about the same places and with almost the same frequency - as CA.

I know it's my fault: that I misrepresented my thoughts, but it's frustrating to be debating something that's not my point. I think Josh Smith wants to play a style like CA. I further think opening the SF slot for him pleased him greatly.

Problem is that he was 2nd to only Kobe in long twos. Carmelo took less long twos than Josh and even attempted more shots at the rim than Josh. Carmelo varies his game, he'll attack the basket often, draw considerably more fouls, take 15 footers, take 20 footers and take 3s. Josh wants to park himself exclusively in the area with the worst possible shot that he shoots a bad percentage on despite being unguarded.

Talent aside, I'd believe it if Josh actually had a commitment to varied scoring as Carmelo but the sad thing is that Carmelo is often accused of being lazy with his shot selection and settling.........what does that make Josh then?

[parson]

I don't disagree Smith needs to go inside more (I've pretty much SCREAMED that all last season). However, I wonder how much of his refusal to do that was because of the (bigger) PFs he would have had to go against. I'm hoping he'll be more willing to go inside against (the smaller) SFs.

[MaceCase]

I don't disagree Smith needs to go inside more (I've pretty much SCREAMED that all last season). However, I wonder how much of his refusal to do that was because of the (bigger) PFs he would have had to go against. I'm hoping he'll be more willing to go inside against (the smaller) SFs.

The thing is.....these guys aren't smaller anymore if Josh remains at 225 (average weight of SFs) and he'll be less likely to go inside on his man plus the help from either or both of the C and PF. Al can only space the floor but so much and if the intent is to play Josh at SF and Al at Pf then I'd imagine you'd want Al using his height/weight advantage on the inside instead of drawing out quicker guys to his jumpers.

There's the issue, you are trying to make Josh happy (even that is debatable as to whether he actually desires to be a 3, all of his weight losses over the years have all been coincidental by his own admission) at the expense of the team. If Steph Curry was at PG or Bargnani at C, sure but going with Zaza, Al, and Josh in the frontcourt would actually fly in the face of what Ferry has been doing, which is collecting shooters by the boatload to space the floor. Being able to have only one on the floor at any given time defeats that purpose.

[D21]

The only thing I would ask is to have Josh still posting-up, attacking the rim, but mainly taking 3s regarding long shots. If Josh work on it this summer, and systems give him the ball behind the line instead of just one foot inside, he will have a better impact easily. He doesn't have to shot 40% from 3pts, 33 to 35% would already be good if he also play near the rim.

The thing is, Josh Smith is a terrible 3pt shooter. It seems unwise to expect him to suddenly become prolific at it. His career 3pt FG% is 28%. He shot an even worse 26% from 3pt range last season.

I'm with you in favor of eliminating the long twos, but the further away from the basket he is, the less effective he is. On offense AND defense.

Terrible is thing, but 28% of 3pts brings more than 33% of 2pts (certainly what he gets from the long 2s he takes nearly on the 3pts line). That's all.
If there's one thing he should not take, it's long 2s first, then 3s if he can't hit more than 33%, which I think he could get as he get better % when he shots more 3s, and also better FT% when shooting more 3s.

It's at least a "must try" this season.

[MaceCase]

The only thing I would ask is to have Josh still posting-up, attacking the rim, but mainly taking 3s regarding long shots. If Josh work on it this summer, and systems give him the ball behind the line instead of just one foot inside, he will have a better impact easily. He doesn't have to shot 40% from 3pts, 33 to 35% would already be good if he also play near the rim.

The thing is, Josh Smith is a terrible 3pt shooter. It seems unwise to expect him to suddenly become prolific at it. His career 3pt FG% is 28%. He shot an even worse 26% from 3pt range last season.

I'm with you in favor of eliminating the long twos, but the further away from the basket he is, the less effective he is. On offense AND defense.

Terrible is thing, but 28% of 3pts brings more than 33% of 2pts (certainly what he gets from the long 2s he takes nearly on the 3pts line). That's all.
If there's one thing he should not take, it's long 2s first, then 3s if he can't hit more than 33%, which I think he could get as he get better % when he shots more 3s, and also better FT% when shooting more 3s.

It's at least a "must try" this season.

It's like Dexter. He's going to kill anyway but you rather he kill bad people instead.......

But as law enforcement you rather he not kill at all if not be locked up for life.

[Jamaaliver]

It's like Dexter. He's going to kill anyway but you rather he kill bad people instead.......

But as law enforcement you rather he not kill at all if not be locked up for life.

What?

The more I hear and the more I research. The more I believe that either Horford or Josh has to go for either to truly thrive.

We've seen Josh thrive without Horford (abd even Joe o a limited basis). I wonder if AL could put up similar numbers is Josh's absence. Especially with all the shooters we now have.

Josh at SF makes me sad as it prevents him from doing what he does best: attacking slow footed PFs and protecting the rim.

[jagstang76]

I can see them co-existing. They've been playing together for a long time now, and I can see them understanding how to best work together better than bringing someone else in. I have had this thought that I can't shake where I see Teague playing a pick-n-roll game with Horford/Smoove. Initially, Al and Josh will try to get a mismatch (if necessary) by picking for each other and getting their defenders to switch up. Then, Teague takes the more favorable matchup and either posts him up or plays a two-man game. If the switch doesn't happen, Teague can hit the open man for an easy basket. Other off man (whoever Teague doesn't go to) will be there to cut or grab a rebound. All those shooters we have now will be able to spread the defense and catch kickouts for easy 3s.

It's very similar to the way the Spurs have been playing for years with Tony and Manu working with Duncan. I can see Teague, Harris, Louis, and maybe even Jenkins all being able to play in the same capacity with Al and Josh. Most of the better teams use pick-n-roll to their advantage because it's so hard to defend when you are really athletic and can spread the floor.

Right now, I'm not as worried about how our guys fit together on offense. I'm more concerned with how things will work defensively. We will lose a shooter if we play big (and that means Josh is the shooter - not good). If we play small, we are better on offense, but we lose a lot on defense. We really need either a solid big that can shoot from outside (Okur-type guy), or we need a good, defensive SF with some size. I like josh at the 3 to matchup against the likes of LeBron and Granger, but we are going to struggle without the right big to make it work. I would even be cool with a PF with a good outside shot.

[parson]

The more I hear and the more I research. The more I believe that either Horford or Josh has to go for either to truly thrive.

We've seen Josh thrive without Horford (abd even Joe o a limited basis). I wonder if AL could put up similar numbers is Josh's absence. Especially with all the shooters we now have.

Josh at SF makes me sad as it prevents him from doing what he does best: attacking slow footed PFs and protecting the rim.

Much as I'd love to see either of them thrive, I'd rather win. I just don't think you can win with only one really good player. The Josh Smith trade talk convinced me we could never get value for either of them in a trade. Trading either of them for picks and hoping for the best is a lousy way to do business.

They HAVE to work it out. My way, sometimes we can put Zaza in at Center and slide Horford and Smith down, hopefully to take advantage of the other team's lack of size. Other times, we can put Korver in and take Zaza out, slide Horford and Smith UP, and take advantage of the other team's lack of quickness.

[parson]

Another thing to consider is that Smith and Horford could show Dwight Howard what our team would look like if he signed with us. He could see Horford at PF and Smith at SF and imagine himself in Zaza's place.