It's too easy to overreact but ...

parson · Post #1 » by **parson** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:42 am

... this really feels like the end for us. Unless Antic or Ayon or Brand (or Muscala or Nogueira) can play decently in the pivot, I see an amazingly short frontline, one incapable of surviving against all but the worst teams.

I hate tanking. It ruins young players. Sure, you might get a high pick but you do so at the expense of players like Schröder, who needs to learn to perform like a professional. How do you demand that of him when there're no victories to earn? However, it appears that we're incapable of competing with this present team. I don't give a rat's rear end what the analytics may say, we're pathetically short inside (we're short on the perimeter, too).

Then, I see Millsap on a very tradeable contract; I see Teague turning heads but followed by 2 interesting PG prospects and I wonder if we're about to dump them for picks. I mean, what good will it be to keep them and play if there's no chance of winning?

On the bright side, we'll be able to buy cheap seats (at Phillips) and then walk up to the front in the 2nd half. For that matter, I could lie sideways on 4 seats and watch the games, if not for the armrests.

Rip2137 · Post #2 » by **Rip2137** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:10 pm

I think its overreacting. Like I said in the other thread, our first two games without Horford just so happened to come against 2 of the best bigs in the game right now in Jefferson and Nikola Vučević.

I mean, we are 1-1 without Horford right now. the team is going to have to adjust before we toss the season away. Guys that aren't used to playing many minutes are going to be sucking wind for a little bit(Brand, Antic) and the offense looks a little confused running the P&R with Milsap instead of Al. They will adjust.

I'm not really sure how winning a game and losing one with about 1:30 seconds left in the game means we can't compete.

parson · Post #3 » by **parson** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:09 pm

Rip2137 wrote: I'm not really sure how winning a game and losing one with about 1:30 seconds left in the game means we can't compete.

Losing's not the issue - our lack of height is. When 6'7.5" Paul Millsap is your only good big man...

NeZoRiL · Post #4 » by **NeZoRiL** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:21 pm

What a great post. I was going to chime in with my 2 cents but as I was reading it I realized someone stole my 2 cents.

Rip2137 · Post #5 » by **Rip2137** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:05 pm

parson wrote:
Rip2137 wrote: I'm not really sure how winning a game and losing one with about 1:30 seconds left in the game means we can't compete.

Losing's not the issue - our lack of height is. When 6'7.5" Paul Millsap is your only good big man...

You can get by with a serviceable big at center. Mind you, we did fine with Josh Smith and Zaza Pacuhila as our front line before. I know everyone loves Zaza, but honestly, the talent gap between him and Elton Brand is miniscule(Elton is actually a better defender now than Zaza, Zaza a better offensive rebounder).

Its not like we LACK size. We have 3 bigs on this team with different skill sets that aren't horrible. They will be fine.

ATLHawksfan21 · Post #6 » by **ATLHawksfan21** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:57 pm

People are overreacting way too much. You need to realize how tired this team was going in to last nights game. They had played four OTs in three games and had to travel on a back-to-back while being shorthanded without carroll. They also had to deal with losing horford during the week. I expected the magic to blow us out and was impressed that we hung around as well as we did (esp. With milsap having a bad game). This team will still make the playoffs assuming no more big injuries occur.

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Post #7 » by **dms269** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:51 pm

Millsap probably isn't going to shoot .285 in most games., nor is Lou going to shoot .375.

You can say "oh woah is me", but they will not continue to shoot that bad.

parson · Post #8 » by **parson** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:33 pm

With Millsap as our only big, I expect to see him doubled inside a lot more from here on out. So, yes, I think his shooting could suffer. I also think we'll see more 3s from him, too.

Post #9 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:15 pm

I think part of the issue is that it took us Overtime to defeat the Bobcats, a team much less talented and less experienced than us. That AL Jefferson dropped a 20-20 game against us speaks to our lack of depth inside.

Following that up with a loss to Orlando and Vucevic looking pretty unstoppable inside all the while, foretells some serious issues regarding rebounding, interior defense et al.

Factor in that we have Dwight Howard, Hibbert, Noah, Bogut on the horizon. Things are likely to get worse before they get better.

Rip2137 · Post #10 » by **Rip2137** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:45 am

Both guys average double doubles against everyone in the league. Its not like these are scrubs that blew up against us.

Also, the team hasn't even had a real practice without AL there yet. Lets just revisit this in about 5 games.

SBM · Post #11 » by **SBM** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:30 am

A bit of overreaction here but we were lacking in quality depth before Horford got hurt. This kills our big man situation its really only Millsap that you can count on every night

FCNATL85 · Post #12 » by **FCNATL85** » Sat Jan 4, 2014 6:39 pm

Jan 10 ans necessary roster decisions might force an addition of a big...or not.

parson · Post #13 » by **parson** » Sun Jan 5, 2014 11:39 pm

uga_dawgs24 wrote:Millsap probably isn't going to shoot .285 in most games., nor is Lou going to shoot .375.

You can say "oh woah is me", but they will not continue to shoot that bad.

Since that ORL game, where he shot 28.6%, he's shot 63.2% against BOS and 21.4% against GS and 27.8% against the Bulls. Maybe it's just fatigue but I think defenses are keying on him because he's our only big.

Post #14 » by **dms269** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 12:14 am

parson wrote:
uga_dawgs24 wrote:Millsap probably isn't going to shoot .285 in most games., nor is Lou going to shoot .375.

You can say "oh woah is me", but they will not continue to shoot that bad.

Since that ORL game, where he shot 28.6%, he's shot 63.2% against BOS and 21.4% against GS and 27.8% against the Bulls. Maybe it's just fatigue but I think defenses are keying on him because he's our only big.

I think it is fatigue but also people not stepping up. If Teague or Korner can have a game to draw some pressure away from Millsap then he will do better.

That and having him not jack up so many threes.

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parson · Post #15 » by **parson** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:23 am

What about Solomon Jones? What do we know about him? Is he healed from his meniscus injury?

Post #16 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jan 7, 2014 6:06 am

Rip2137 wrote:Both guys average double doubles against everyone in the league. Its not like these are scrubs that blew up against us.

Also, the team hasn't even had a real practice without AL there yet. Lets just revisit this in about 5 games.

Is it time to revisit now? Can we acknowledge that this team, though well coached, is lacking in talent? 2-4 since AL went down.

And counting...

azuresou1 · Post #17 » by **azuresou1** » Tue Jan 7, 2014 7:04 am

It's pretty clear we suck without Al. The question is, what do we do about it? What do we even WANT to do about it?

I'm personally in favor of seeing if Millsap can be moved for legitimate future assets. The problem is finding a trade partner.

Rip2137 · Post #18 » by **Rip2137** » Tue Jan 7, 2014 3:34 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Rip2137 wrote:Both guys average double doubles against everyone in the league. Its not like these are scrubs that blew up against us.

Also, the team hasn't even had a real practice without AL there yet. Lets just revisit this in about 5 games.

Is it time to revisit now? Can we acknowledge that this team, though well coached, is lacking in talent? 2-4 since AL went down.

And counting...

And the problem is our offense is broken. Everyone is too slow to run a decent pick and roll (including Milsap).

Adding bottom of the barrel bigs that offer nothing offensively will not fix what is hurting the teams now. Our size has had nothing to do with the losses in Chicago, New Jersey or Golden State.

Post #19 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jan 7, 2014 6:51 pm

Rip2137 wrote: Our size has had nothing to do with the losses in Chicago, New Jersey or Golden State.

This seems myopic and just stubborn.

especially when a Brooklyn team missing its two best players and which started a 36 year old Paul Pierce at PF managed to outrebound us, outscore us in the paint and pulled down 15 offensive rebounds.

in the 6 games since AL went down we have topped 100 points 3 times, but are still only 1-2 in those games.

You really unwilling to at least acknowledge the slight possibility that a lack of size, lack of rebounding, lack or interior defense might have something to do with our ills?

Rip2137 · Post #20 » by **Rip2137** » Tue Jan 7, 2014 10:14 pm

We are topping 100 due to the increased 3 point shooting.

In the last 3 losses 2 teams have shot 40% from the field and Golden state shot 44. That's right in line with what we have been doing all year. We have been forcing just as many turnovers, blocking just as many shots and holding teams the same percentage.

The things that have changed since Horford went down are freethrow attempts, OUR shooting percentage, and the amount of shots we take in the paint.

I understand you think getting outrebounded by FOUR is a big deal, but seeing as almost all of the offensive rebounds were grabbed by guards on long rebounds last night, I'm not really sure how adding a bottom of the trash heap big will change that. The guards for Brooklyn accounted for 7 offensive rebounds and Reggie Evans got 3 more. Reggie Evans is Reggie Evans, Al there or not. Size had nothing to do with last nights loss. We turned the ball over at inopportune times, and were just aweful offensively.

Our lower shooting percentage is resulting in more defensive rebounds for other teams. You can't remove 18 points a game and over 50 percent shooting and replace it with...well...nothing.

My point is there is nothing to trade for. You can bid on Bynum...that's about IT out there to get this team better right now. They are going to have to right the ship from within or move Schroder, Millsap, Teague, or Korver. That's the only options. But plugging in a random tall guy who will offer marginally better defense isn't going to sway this team much one way or another. We get a guy like Asik, we get, what 3-5 more shots at the basket a game? Only our offense is more compressed and even worse. We need a guy to provide some type of realistic offense around the basket.