DFerry needs to make a BOLD Move to improve our Talent

[Jamaaliver]

I've mentioned over the years I prefer a proactive GM willing to take chances rather than a caretaker who simply stands pat. Today, Mark Bradley of the AJC wrote an article asking when (and if) Atlanta will ever get their Durant.
http://markbradley.blog.ajc.com/2014/01/28/when-if-ever-will-the-hawks-find-their-durant/

I think it's approaching time for Ferry to make a bold move to get a(nother) top 20 player on this team. We lost our best bargaining chip last year with the departure of Smoove.

For years we've seen James Harden, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, Rudy Gay get traded to last place franchises with varying degrees of success. We've largely stood pat during this time (for a variety of reasons).

But now we have the coach, the stability of ownership and a system in place which could allow us to actually bring in a big name and ride them to the next level.

I am a firm believer in buying low and selling high. And recognize that while we have solid pieces, we still lack star power. We could have tanked, but it's far too late for that. But we do have pieces, flexibility, draft picks, cap room to make a bold move and add another PTPer.

Any ideas, suggestions for a bold trade target to get us to the next level?

[Jamaaliver]

I have a name that keeps sticking in my head. A man who could be our Durant as he is a pure and accomplished scorer who wants more than anything to win a title and get some legitimacy in this league again:

Carmelo Anthony. I know he has baggage. But his skillset fits exactly what we are lacking...one on one ability to score. Name brand recognition to attract other players (both big names and role players), attract fans and get the respect of the referees in crunchtime. We run a system that would not rely on him all game long as an isolation player. We have the defenders, 3 point shooters, big men to compliment him perfectly.

He'd have to take a paycut, We might have to sign and trade to get him. But I have faith in Bud and Ferry to make it work.

Bringing him in gets us back in primetime, makes us a more attractive destination, increases revenue and locks us in as a top 4 team in the East.

Carmelo could either play SF or even PF on occasion in a role similar to Lebron and Millsap.
Our role players, our offense, flanked by Carmelo could be a thing of beauty...or it could completely blow up in our face.

[Jamaaliver]

Other bold targets for the offseason:

Paul Pierce
Luol Deng
Rudy Gay
Deron Williams (he's been mentioned in trade rumors)
Pau Gasol in Free Agency

[diesel50]

I'm your Huckleberry.....

Here's that blockbuster you requested...
If instead of looking to the late offseason, let's take advantage of what's to come now...

Hawks trade:

Horford to Philly for Turner, Noel, and Allen.

Here's why...

Philly will move Turner by the deadline because he is a RFA and they want to go after Hawes in the offseason.
Philly will have a low pick but they have some young guns with ability and the ability to pair up Hawes and Horf.

Atlanta can give the team to our Allstar Millsap and we can bring along two project Centers: Noel and Bebe.
Atlanta will be SWAT City.

Turner is a star waiting to happen, but Philly is not where it will happen. Philly will get a High Draft pick and can get any 2 guard/swing man they want.

With Noel, we have defense at the rim. With Evans we have a slasher. That goes well with Korver's shooting and Millsap's everything game.

[parson]

Schröder develops the body and maturity to match his talented game...
Nogueira develops the body and maturity to match his talented game...
Jenkins develops the body and maturity to match his talented game...
....
More draft picks can be blended into the mixture...

Pour ingredients into Horford, Millsap and Teague (or their traded-for substitutions) with a garnish of Carroll, Korver, Mack, Brand, Scott...

Stir.


Plus, we still have the money for a max FA this offseason. Jus' sayin'.

[parson]

Atlanta can give the team to our Allstar Millsap

Millsap cannot take the team and score well without a good big man. I love him but he aint Al Horford. I really want to keep him - remember I'm the guy who wants to see him at SF BESIDE Horford and a Center? - but we don't build a team around him. Haven't you noticed that he's literally shooting more than 50 points worse (he went from .463 in Dec. to .406) since Horford went out?

[Jamaaliver]

Trade Horford for Noel and Evan Turner.
Sit and wait for the youth to develop.

Those are indeed...bold.
Not sure either brings a title to ATL. Especially if Dennis and Bebe take more than a couple of years to develop. By then AL, Millsap, and the rookies will be due for raises. By the time Schroeder and Bebe are 25 (just entering their prime) AL will be 32 and past his.

As far as Noel, Turner and Millsap leading us to contention, I am skeptical those three have what it takes to defeat the Lebrons, Kevin Durants and Chris Pauls of the world. Now or in the future.

[azuresou1]

I think the most available All-Star caliber guy is Kevin Love, but you have to wonder what it'd take to pry him away from Minny. We'd ideally want to pair him with Al - barring him, Millsap is great but unfortunately his contract is on the short side for what they'd want for Love.

Can't see Melo leaving NY. I just can't.

Honestly though, we're not a good team for trades. Our valuable pieces are pretty damn valuable, but outside of those pieces we don't have many mid-value assets that either fill in value gaps or are the basis for trades that upgrade your talent.

[parson]

I think the most available All-Star caliber guy is Kevin Love, but you have to wonder what it'd take to pry him away from Minny.

Nothing. Someone's going to sign him as a FA. He probably already knows where he wants to go.

Can't see Melo leaving NY. I just can't.

I'd hate to have him - AND the return to iso-offense.

[diesel50]

Trade Horford for Noel and Evan Turner.
Sit and wait for the youth to develop.

Those are indeed...bold.
Not sure either brings a title to ATL. Especially if Dennis and Bebe take more than a couple of years to develop. By then AL, Millsap, and the rookies will be due for raises. By the time Schroeder and Bebe are 25 (just entering their prime) AL will be 32 and past his.

As far as Noel, Turner and Millsap leading us to contention, I am skeptical those three have what it takes to defeat the Lebrons, Kevin Durants and Chris Pauls of the world. Now or in the future.

Uhm... We won't have Al. We traded him. Evans is already a 19 ppg SG. Mix with the young group we have an put Sap as the lead... with an extension (because he will be an allstar).. now you're cooking.
I think you could have said the same about Paul George a few years ago. I think Evans could be a a star ready to blow.

[theatlfan]

Can't see Turner - looks like an average to slightly above wing who is taking advantage a fast PHI pace to put up numbers past his talent level. Think OJ Mayo - Tank Commander. Good enough to put up good numbers on bad teams; not good enough to be a star on a good team.

Expecting to get a star out of a mid-1st is a dangerous game. Sure, it can happen - just not too often.

Don't see giving up much (if anything) for an aging star either. I could see us putting together a couple of decent seasons around Melo, but in the end, we end up paying too much for too little and no championship. Same with Pau and Deron IMO.

The top list doesn't excite me too much otherwise: Pierce is expected to retire; Deng is a complementary piece. Absolutely 0 idea how Gay gets into this conversation - MEM and TOR both got better by trading him away; SAC has gotten worse since he came on.

In terms of the Player to build around, some ideas:
The #1 player out there is undoubtedly Kevin Love assuming MIN decides to trade him. MIN fans won't talk about dealing him though and honestly, I don't blame them. Reality can be different than fandom though so I can't count him out.

The next realistic player out there is Greg Monroe. I think this one is actually pretty feasible in that DET has slid out of the playoffs and we have some win now pieces (Millsap, Korver) to offer. The deal I keep chewing on is Monroe, KCP, and Charlie V for Millsap, Korver, and Brand - we'd take Jerebko if DET demanded. IMO, DET actually becomes a legit championship contender with Millsap and Korver to balance out that lineup. Bring some efficiency to their existing athleticism. Meanwhile, we get Monroe as a young piece to build around and still have a decent team to surround him with immediately before passing the torch. We also open up some cap room before resigning Monroe in the offseason. Haven't done the math, but we'd have d@mn near the max if we don't have to take Jerebko.

The next player on my list is actually Chandler Parson. Kid has some sick efficiency numbers alongside Harden and D12. On the T&T board, I've attempted to move the Millsap for Asik discussions to Millsap for Parson and we'll help dump Asik or Lin.

The last name that I want to put on the table is Marc Gasol. Don't think anything would happen this year or anything, but if MEM is looking to tear down and Gasol is coming up on UFA time frame, then things could become interesting...

[azuresou1]

Monroe is overrated. He's good but nothing special.

Chandler Parsons is not going to be moved by the Rockets. He's a do-it-all player who is getting paid like half a mill a year.

Can't see Marc being moved by Memphis.

[parson]

Center keys the defense and PG the offense. If Nogueira pans out defensively and if Dennis makes it as a PG ...

...if Horford's health holds out ... if either Millsap makes it as a SF or we trade him for one ... if Jenkins becomes Kyle Korver ... if we draft another piece ... or maybe Carroll continues to improve his shooting or maybe Teague comes out of his funk and starts growing his game again or maybe Mack improves his outside shooting ...

Sorry. Sometimes, it boggles the mind. If we're going to use analytics, we'll need someone with a Ph.D. in fuzzy logic.

[MaceCase]

I don't see Monroe as overrated, I just think his game has suffered with Drummond and now Josh being pushed to the forefront over him. You hear most people and he's pretty much been an afterthought on that team despite the fact he's probably been their most consistent performer. I think he could be had for cheaper though, perhaps even signed outright in free agency as I don't see how whatever GM who replaces Dumars could justify throwing a lucrative contract to a core of bigmen that possibly missed the playoffs.

Parsons interestingly enough may find himself on the end of a Harden/Joe situation himself where he want's to be paid accordingly after way overachieving on his previous deal and the Rockets might break a sweat over it. If Houston stands pat on Lin and Asik then this isn't an issue but if they are able to flip them for some other impact player that doesn't screw with their cap then Parsons may need to be moved in a pinch.

I agree that Gasol isn't likely to go anywhere. Marc and Conley are pretty much the core of the Grizz.

[Jamaaliver]

If Nogueira pans out defensively and if Dennis makes it as a PG ...

...if Horford's health holds out ... if either Millsap makes it as a SF or we trade him for one ... if Jenkins becomes Kyle Korver ... if we draft another piece ... or maybe Carroll continues to improve his shooting or maybe Teague comes out of his funk and starts growing his game again or maybe Mack improves his outside shooting ...

That's a whole lotta ifs and maybes.

Absolutely 0 idea how Gay gets into this conversation

Fair enough, but he's played the best ball of his career since being shipped to Sacramento. He isn't a #1 option, but as a #2 he's pretty dynamite. In our system he could produce big numbers more efficiently.

This is in line with the thinking of buying low...selling high.

The last name that I want to put on the table is Marc Gasol. Don't think anything would happen this year or anything, but if MEM is looking to tear down and Gasol is coming up on UFA time frame, then things could become interesting...

I agree Marc could be a game changer for us playing next to AL. I suspect that the right offer/opportunity could force Memphis to consider moving him. They had a top 4 team last season, but dumped a fair amount of salary as well their Head Coach. They're retooling. We just have to make an offer they can't refuse.

I think the most available All-Star caliber guy is Kevin Love, but you have to wonder what it'd take to pry him away from Minny

Forgot about K-Love. He'd be a great pickup and is definitely leaving Minnesota. Sadly he doesn't mesh as well with Horford as other options (IMO). And if he can't even get Minnesota to the playoffs, can we count on him to get this team to the Finals?

[parson]

If Nogueira pans out defensively and if Dennis makes it as a PG ...

...if Horford's health holds out ... if either Millsap makes it as a SF or we trade him for one ... if Jenkins becomes Kyle Korver ... if we draft another piece ... or maybe Carroll continues to improve his shooting or maybe Teague comes out of his funk and starts growing his game again or maybe Mack improves his outside shooting ...

That's a whole lotta ifs and maybes.

That was kinda/sorta the point. However, in order for me to try to contribute something, add all those ifs and maybes to a coach who not only has a reputation for player development but is proving it again HERE. I was asking if we need to make a desperate move or if we should keep growing our players and adding assets.

I'll ask another question: considering what we've done with Millsap and Carroll (did ANYONE believe they'd turn out as well as they have?), what if we could add another such underappreciated player? In other words, what if we could find another player whose present team doesn't realize what it has?

I realize that all this is ancillary, and that Ferry will have to find a "go-to" player or we'll never make it past the 2nd round on the playoffs. However, the adding of players and the developing of those we already have is proving interesting. Ferry and Budenholzer are working magic. Why gamble, which would require committing assets that may end up better than whomever we gamble on?

[diesel50]

Can't see Turner - looks like an average to slightly above wing who is taking advantage a fast PHI pace to put up numbers past his talent level. Think OJ Mayo - Tank Commander. Good enough to put up good numbers on bad teams; not good enough to be a star on a good team.
.

Even if this was the truth....

Making him a 2nd/3rd Option on a team that had Noel at C, Millsap at PF, Korver at SF, Teague/Dennis at PG.... Think of how good he could be? I mean right now, his PPG = 18.5. His RPG = 6.1. His FG% = 44. So far, this year, he's playing better than DeMarr Derozen. The difference is team wins and losses.

The other part of the deal is Noel. This guy swatted over 4 shots per game in College. Yes, he needs more bulk... but with him, Bebe, and Pero .... We have our defensive rotation.

[diesel50]

Another BOLD MOVE...

Trading Teague to Toronto for Kyle Lowry.

Right now, Toronto is going to get rid of Lowry.. The reason is that they know that they can't resign him. We send them a slightly used Jeff Teague and they give us Lowry. For this to work, Ferry would have to get Lowry in a SNT. IF we signed Lowry, he becomes our PG of the future (no doubts about it).

That allows for a second bold move in the offseason.
Horf and Dennis to Houston for Asik/Chandler.

I think Houston is game because Horford is a better compliment to D-12 than they could have ever hoped for. Dennis would be the cheap, young, Parker that they need. He quickly surpasses Lin. In fact, they could probably move Lin. The price for that is Chandler... So understand, we're not giving them anything, it's a good deal for both teams.

So the new Hawks starter 2014-2015:

Lowry, Korver, Chandler, Millsap, Asik.
of course, you sign Sap to an extension.

[theatlfan]

Can't see Turner - looks like an average to slightly above wing who is taking advantage a fast PHI pace to put up numbers past his talent level. Think OJ Mayo - Tank Commander. Good enough to put up good numbers on bad teams; not good enough to be a star on a good team.
.

Even if this was the truth....

Making him a 2nd/3rd Option on a team that had Noel at C, Millsap at PF, Korver at SF, Teague/Dennis at PG.... Think of how good he could be? I mean right now, his PPG = 18.5. His RPG = 6.1. His FG% = 44. So far, this year, he's playing better than DeMarr Derozen. The difference is team wins and losses.

The other part of the deal is Noel. This guy swatted over 4 shots per game in College. Yes, he needs more bulk... but with him, Bebe, and Pero .... We have our defensive rotation.

I can see discussing Turner as a 2/3 option, but I'd think we'd want to have a #1 option in house 1st. While I would agree that we'd need to take on some risk in acquiring a #1 option (who'd trade a young, true #1 option?), I just can't see Turner as that guy. The raw numbers are good, but the efficiency isn't there and has never been there in his career.

As far as DeRozan, I'm surprised he hasn't come up ITT until now - and even then not as an option to acquire but as a comp instead. Personally, I see him as a very good 2nd unit leader - think Lou Williams. I know he's getting AS love right now, but I'd prefer to pass on him if we're going to pay #1 prices.

Another BOLD MOVE...

Trading Teague to Toronto for Kyle Lowry.

Right now, Toronto is going to get rid of Lowry.. The reason is that they know that they can't resign him. We send them a slightly used Jeff Teague and they give us Lowry. For this to work, Ferry would have to get Lowry in a SNT. IF we signed Lowry, he becomes our PG of the future (no doubts about it).

That allows for a second bold move in the offseason.
Horf and Dennis to Houston for Asik/Chandler.

I think Houston is game because Horford is a better compliment to D-12 than they could have ever hoped for. Dennis would be the cheap, young, Parker that they need. He quickly surpasses Lin. In fact, they could probably move Lin. The price for that is Chandler... So understand, we're not giving them anything, it's a good deal for both teams.

So the new Hawks starter 2014-2015:

Lowry, Korver, Chandler, Millsap, Asik.
of course, you sign Sap to an extension.

Interesting thoughts. I think they could be some overpays in there (I'd expect that HOU should be giving more to dump Asik right at his balloon payment for 1), but I like the result - 2x so if we bring over Bebe and/or Muscala to develop and replace Asik the following year.

The one other thought here to kick around is the Lowry/Teague swap. Outside of the RFA match restrictions, any reason not to pull the Lowry/Teague swap now? I'd suspect we could even ask for something extra due to Teague 's age and contact...

[azuresou1]

Guys like Turner and DeRozan are not going to move your franchise in any significant direction.

I like Lowry but he's going to want $. You have to wonder if it makes sense to swap Teague for him, considering that it's a slight upgrade in talent but then we're going to have to deal with contract negotiations while changing team chemistry. All-in-all, it seems like a lateral move.

Parson is good but trading Horford and Schroeder for him/Asik is a MASSIVE overpay by us.

Sorry to shoot down all these ideas, but to be frank I think they are either downgrades, or trades for the sake of making trades.