RealGM

In this series, we have already discussed Korver and DMC. The next guy to come up is Shelvin "return of the Mack" Mack. While he is not a starter, in Bud's offense, he definitely is a top BU. He gets it. Even in his limited role, he gets it. The question is how do you leverage a guy that gets it and was not even thought about for the future.. vs. a guy who is believed to be the future but hasn't shown that he gets it yet? If you look at the minutes, we see where Bud stands (as of today) but if you were GM, where would you stand. In the offseason, do we just let Shelvin Walk or do we present a deal to stay to him?

What do you say?

Since the beginning of the season, I've comped Mack to our Wil Bynum - a backup PG type who understands the system and you can hold onto him for both cheap and long. As long as Mack is willing to resign at Room MLE $$ or less, I see no reason to let him go. He has some development left, but he's young, versatile (can get spot minutes at SG), and cheap so why not?

The better he plays now, the more likely he gets a raise from someone else down the line.

I am not a fan of having three players so young all at the same position.

We have to make a decision on Dennis later this year (picking up his 3rd year option). Hard to do that if he's the 3rd (or 4th) string PG.

Dennis has a higher ceiling long term.

I don't see how we could commit more money or playing time to the position without bringing in a veteran to spell Jeff and teach Dennis.

I say let him go, we NEED to start focusing on the development of Dennis, his potential is too great for us to make him play 3rd PG minutes again next year. Although I would have nothing against bringing in a veteran PG to teach Dennis the ropes like Jamaaliver said: we had Bibby and Hinrich help out Teague and I think that made a world of difference in Jeff's development.

Why would we let him go? He's shown he can be a very good backup PG. There's value in that - for us. Considering how far he's come since last year, it's not unreasonable to wonder if he can continue to grow.

We have a coaching staff that is impressively developing players. Why limit that? Sure, I'm a huge fan of Schröder (and I see him as the future) but I don't like throwing away valuable assets. PGs are held at a premium in the NBA. If you have 3 - or 50 - you don't throw the "extras" away, you thank the good Lord and make good use of each and every one of them.

Right now, for example, we're nearing the trade deadline with the ability to trade a PG to a team in desperate need of one. Mack has played so well, and Dennis has demonstrated such potential, that we could reasonably trade Teague to a contender and not fear for our offense. Someone earlier said Teague-for-Affalo. That's not impossible. How about Teague for Asik+? Teague/Nogueira to OKC for Lamb/Adams?

Something tells me that the odd man out in Ferry's book is Teague. It might not happen soon but I would be surprised if it doesn't.

ATL Boy wrote:I say let him go, we NEED to start focusing on the development of Dennis, his potential is too great for us to make him play 3rd PG minutes again next year. Although I would have nothing against bringing in a veteran PG to teach Dennis the ropes like Jamaaliver said: we had Bibby and Hinrich help out Teague and I think that made a world of difference in Jeff's development.

By that same token, nobody was moved so that Jeff could "develop". Shelvin could turn out better than Dennis?

diesel50 wrote:

ATL Boy wrote:I say let him go, we NEED to start focusing on the development of Dennis, his potential is too great for us to make him play 3rd PG minutes again next year. Although I would have nothing against bringing in a veteran PG to teach Dennis the ropes like Jamaaliver said: we had Bibby and Hinrich help out Teague and I think that made a world of difference in Jeff's development.

By that same token, nobody was moved so that Jeff could "develop". Shelvin could turn out better than Dennis?

No disrespect to Shelvin but I don't think he'll be better than Schröder: from what I've seen Dennis has those natural god given tools which you can't teach.

You're right that nobody was moved and we stuck with the vets but that's not a good thing. The only reason Teague actually got minutes was because he proved himself vs. the bulls when Hinrich went down, I'm sure we wouldn't have given him a chance at all if we didn't have too, we can't let Dennis rot on the bench for years like we let Teague. Who knows what would've happened had Hinrich stayed healthy.

Skyhawk1 wrote:Something tells me that the odd man out in Ferry's book is Teague. It might not happen soon but I would be surprised if it doesn't.

I agree with this. The drafting of Schröder, Teague's comments and subsequent signing in RFA. Sure, a lot of water has passed under the bridge since, but I just don't get the feeling that the hatchet was ever fully buried.

If we could get a deal 1/2-way close to the deal PHI got for Jrue, then I think Teague is gone. The question is who could we get to bridge the gap between then and when Schröder is ready.

Mack could end up better than Schröder. Herr Schröder's weakness is mistakes. As a fan of the Braves, I've seen scores of hotshot shortstops with hall of fame talent who just couldn't stop making errors. They never made it to the majors or, if they did, they couldn't stick.

Ol' Mr. Slow and Sure may turn out better just by being trustworthy. Understand, I WANT the PG with star power but the mistakes are fatal if he can't stop them.

Still, I feel dirty talking about Teague as if he's already gone. If only I knew what was bothering him. I'm starting to think it's emotional, as if he's just depressed that Horford went out and the season is over. If he can't bring himself to act as a professional, he needs to remember he has 8 million reasons to play well.

parson wrote:Why would we let him go? He's shown he can be a very good backup PG...it's not unreasonable to wonder if he can continue to grow.

parson wrote:Mack could end up better than Schröder

diesel50 wrote: Shelvin could turn out better than Dennis?

Skyhawk1 wrote:Something tells me that the odd man out in Ferry's book is Teague. It might not happen soon but I would be surprised if it doesn't.

We really considering dumping Schroeder or Teague because our backup PG has been solid in spurts for half a season?

Jamaaliver wrote:We really considering dumping Schroeder or Teague because our backup PG has been solid in spurts for half a season?

Dump Dennis? Nope.

But wouldn't YOU trade Teague for Afflalo?

parson wrote:

Jamaaliver wrote:We really considering dumping Schroeder or Teague because our backup PG has been solid in spurts for half a season?

Dump Dennis? Nope.

But wouldn't YOU trade Teague for Afflalo?

I would VERY seriously consider it, yes.
But we'd have a big hole at PG. And a logjam on the wings.

Mack has come on strong this season, but I have serious doubts about his abilities as a starting PG.
(See quarters 2, 3 & 4 of the OKC game.)

I totally agree with you on Mack. All I've said is he's become a solid backup with room to improve. But Dennis could ruin his career if he can't fix the mistakes. That would be the way Mack ends up being better, because Mack plays pretty mistake-free ball.

Dennis does make mistakes and let's just call it what it is... He's a good Pick and Roll Point guard but for now, he tries to do more than what is needed. He doesn't have strength and he's turnover prone. Some of these overlap but for the most part, it's in his personality. He wants to be showcase PG. He does indeed have skills, but if you can't deliver with simplicity, there's no place in the league for you. That's where Mack is killing. Mack can deliver with simplicity.

About the Teague talk. I would only consider moving Teague if we have something to move him for. We have to win in a trade IMO. Let's face it, Teague's slump happened when the amount of viable option on the court were cut down. Before that, Teague was allstar level. Yes, that means that Teague is dependent on talent being around him... but most players are.

Jamaaliver wrote:But we'd have a big hole at PG. And a logjam on the wings.

Teague's play since Horford got hurt has already put a hole in our lineup. Mack has been almost as good, good enough that there would be only a slight drop-off. That's the point.

But Afflalo wouldn't cause a logjam because we don't have a true starting SG. We take a PG off the pile where we have 3 and we add a SG where we have a backup 2/3 (Korver) and a 6th man (Lou Williams).

Jamaaliver wrote:We really considering dumping Schroeder or Teague because our backup PG has been solid in spurts for half a season?

Not sure people are looking to "dump" a PG because Mack has looked good or simply that people are seeing options in which we can go forward with Mack. Pretty sure that the comments pertaining to the fact that Mack may end up better than Schröder are referencing the fact that Schröder is still more prospect than player and - as with any prospect - there are no guarantees that they pan out. I think everyone would agree that if Schröder reaches his ceiling then he'll bring more than what Mack does.

I've been a chronic hater of Mack, and though he's played very well this season, I stand by my position. He is not nor will ever be a starting caliber PG - ideally he's not even your backup PG. He is a role player that is having a great season.

At $1-2M a season for a couple of seasons? Sure, why not. But talks about the MLE are simply crazy and how teams bury themselves in mediocrity.

azuresou1 wrote:I've been a chronic hater of Mack, and though he's played very well this season, I stand by my position. He is not nor will ever be a starting caliber PG - ideally he's not even your backup PG. He is a role player that is having a great season.

At $1-2M a season for a couple of seasons? Sure, why not. But talks about the MLE are simply crazy and how teams bury themselves in mediocrity.

To be clear, there are 3 types of MLE's now and the Room MLE sets up around $2.5M. Not sure why the $.5M difference on the max contract would be particularly disconcerting...

Okay, I was thinking of the full MLE which is in the $4-6 range.

$2.5M a season is still richer than my taste but it probably won't kill us.