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Hi,
I would like to know your thoughts on the possibility to get Kevin Martin, since we have enough room to take his contract.

At first, I don't like his contract : 6,792,500 7,085,000 7,377,500 (P.O.)
If there were only two years left, it would be different, but three...
He seems to keep his opponent on lower PER than I thought, but he doesn't help team defense when on the floor, and I don't like the fact that Pekovic, Love, Rubio and Brewer are all in +9 or more / 100 possessions while he's only at +2.8, which would mean they were better without him (note that all the other players of MIN are on negative values)
He also plays for SG than SF

But, thinking it twice...
He could be our scorer at SG, espacilly when playing with Teague and Carroll who can cover the defensive loss.
He shot .38 .35 .43 and .39 at 3pts on four last seasons (to go with .90 at FT)

And...
since he doesn't have a nice contract (without being 15M for a 8M guy), if MIN wants to start the young guys and unload Martin and Barea with Love, they can help the move by sending a first with him.
And there's a choice of pick, between MIN and the three 2015 first that CLE have.

I don't know if we can get one, but it could be worth taking Martin.
If we can get another 2015 pick, to add with our possibility to swap pick with BKN, it could be a good deal.

Ew. No no no. Kevin Martin is a huge defensive liability who gives up more points than he scores. His contract is also horrendous.

Yeah I can't see Martin for 3 years. We've got Korver who is better both offensively and defensively while Thabo, Carroll, and Bazemore show the high value we're putting on D. I think the only roster spot we'd have for a wing would have to be someone who can create with the ball and Martin isn't a guy that can do that. I'd be hesitant if he was on a 1 year deal (but would pull the trigger to get the asset at this juncture) but anything more and I'd just assume passing.

theatlfan wrote:Yeah I can't see Martin for 3 years. We've got Korver who is better both offensively and defensively while Thabo, Carroll, and Bazemore show the high value we're putting on D. I think the only roster spot we'd have for a wing would have to be someone who can create with the ball and Martin isn't a guy that can do that. I'd be hesitant if he was on a 1 year deal (but would pull the trigger to get the asset at this juncture) but anything more and I'd just assume passing.

Yeah, I'd stick to Korver. His contract is pretty underrated.

D21 wrote:Hi,
I would like to know your thoughts on the possibility to get Kevin Martin, since we have enough room to take his contract.

I really like this acquisition. His contract is a fairly reasonable one, based on his production. His game reminds a bit of Rip Hamilton's. He's not the pure shooter that Korver is, but he is an accomplished scorer. I'd like to see us have a defensive starter at SF and Center to make up for his defensive deficiencies. But in our system, with our personnel, he'd do very well.

19 ppg for $7 million+ is one of the best values in the league. On par with Teague, Korver, Millsap.

The question becomes, what would we have to give to acquire him?

I'm all in on Martin and I'd give up one of our PGs because we get production from KM out of the gate. He'd be a good combo for KK at the 2 and we lose nothing on the offensive end. Defense is a challenge for both, but at 7M, its well known.
DS and a 2nd to get him and that strengthens our bench once we bring Mack back.

Would have took him with the Salmons contract just don't see what I would trade for him now though. Kevin Martin that is.

td00 wrote:...DS and a 2nd to get him and that strengthens our bench once we bring Mack back.

IMO, the main point is that we may ask for something instead of send players, maybe not if Love goes to CHI or GSW, but if Love goes to CLE, because CLE was under the cap, so they don't have more players to send to get Love with Martin and Barea.

If we help CLE to get Love, we lose on the fact that a Eastern opponent is improving (if they really improve), so if we help them getting Love, we may ask for something from CLE, as one of their 2015 1st pick, instead of them sending this pick to MIN for the fact that they can't take Martin and Barea with Love.

Maybe it's asking too much, but it can be balanced with sending a 2nd.
The first thing I thought about this 1st pick is that it could be used later in the season for a potential trade.

azuresou1 wrote:Ew. No no no. Kevin Martin is a huge defensive liability who gives up more points than he scores. His contract is also horrendous.

I've checked it, and the team is getting more in offense than it loses on defense, and I suppose that in the ATL system, he could increase his offensive efficiency, and if he can't create his own shot, I think he may be an underrated passer.

LOL you guys are critical as FU when it comes to other teams players. When he was in his prime Kevin Martin was one of the best scorers in the league. He's older now so he can't slash like he used to, but he can still work effectively as a spot up shooter. He doesn't have the stroke Kyle Korver has, but he can drive to the basket and get to the free throw line while being an average defender.

Although we are kind of log jammed at the 2/3 now with Thabo/Korver/Carroll/Bazemore all vying for time, Martin would earn a solid 20-25 minutes for us.

Atlanta gets: Festus Ezeli, Kevin Martin, and Barea

Minnesota gets: Klay Thompson, David Lee, Harrison Barns

Golden States gets: Kevin Love

atlantabbq99 wrote:Atlanta gets: Festus Ezeli, Kevin Martin, and Barea

Minnesota gets: Klay Thompson, David Lee, Harrison Barns

Golden States gets: Kevin Love

I think I'd want more than Ezeli just to eat Barea's contract - so forth Martin's...

that trade doesn't work in the trade checker

We have more chances to make it happen with CLE than other teams.
If MIN insist on sending Martin, CLE can take him, it makes too much difference in salaries, so CLE has to find a third team to take Martin, and they could add something to it, like a second, or maybe one of their three 2015 first if we send a 2nd to us.

D21 wrote:We have more chances to make it happen with CLE than other teams.
If MIN insist on sending Martin, CLE can take him, it makes too much difference in salaries, so CLE has to find a third team to take Martin, and they could add something to it, like a second, or maybe one of their three 2015 first if we send a 2nd to us.

One note about CLE's picks is that it may be a little tricky for them to trade a pick. If they're willing to deal either MIA's or MEM's then that's fine and there would be no issue. But CLE has traded a pick swap in '15 (in the Deng deal) and their '16 pick (in the Jack salary dump) so they really can't send their own out until '18 at the earliest.

Doesn't affect the comment here at all but if you're going to piece together a trade thought, then it's something to take note of.

2013-2014 On/Off Court numbers (from 82games):

DeMarre Carroll: +10.6
Kyle Korver: + 8.5
Thabo Sefolosha (12-13): +4.4
Kevin Martin: +2.2
Kent Bazemore: - 2.4
Thabo Sefolosha: -4.3

We traded for Thabo with the hope that last season was an anomaly caused by his calf injury - in other words that he would perform like he did the previous season. If he does, that would make Kevin Martin our 4th best wing (in terms of impact, not ability), and relegate him to a scorer-off-the-bench role.

You don't pay scorers off the bench $7M a year for the next 3 years when they're 31 and declining. And before you say it, no, Manu Ginobili is not just a scorer off the bench.

azuresou1 wrote:...
You don't pay scorers off the bench $7M a year for the next 3 years when they're 31 and declining. And before you say it, no, Manu Ginobili is not just a scorer off the bench.

Please, you're seeing what you really want to see, because Yes Gino is more than a scorer coming from the bench, Yes he will make 7M the coming season and was making 7.5M last season, but did you look at the previous one ?
Gino, a 35 years old guy in 2012-13, was making more than 14M

So Yes, I would prefer all our cap room left or 14M on Gino than 7M on Martin,
but Martin is making less than 7M at 31, and scored 19pts/game this season.
OK, he's not more than that, unlike Gino, but I saw lots of thread mentioning the fact that we are missing one scorer.

It's certainly not the best option, but a scorer for 7M ? I'm ready to put him at SG with Teague and Carroll (two good defender and one scorer), with Korver and Thabo coming from the bench if it can be a missing piece.
Certainly not the best missing piece, but maybe a good one.

Gotta agree with D21. +/- on a different team, with a different system, playing beside different players just isn't a reliable stat to compare. I too would gladly take K-Mart on as starting SG without hesitation.

He is a better pure scorer than KK. (Though admittedly not the pure shooter.)

$7 million for a 20 ppg is outstanding value. And he is a more feared option in crunch time also. He could easily be our #2 option on offense.

I guess I'll have to disagree with you guys on this one. I can't in good conscience support giving Kevin Martin $7M a year for 3! more seasons when 2015 and 2016 FA is pretty good.

2015 list of SGs
Wes Matthews (UFA)
Monta Ellis
Klay Thompson (RFA)
Kawhi (RFA)
Alec Burks (RFA)
Arron Afflalo
DeMarre
Greald Green

azuresou1 wrote:I guess I'll have to disagree with you guys on this one. I can't in good conscience support giving Kevin Martin $7M a year for 3! more seasons when 2015 and 2016 FA is pretty good.

2015 list of SGs
Wes Matthews (UFA)
Monta Ellis
Klay Thompson (RFA)
Kawhi (RFA)
Alec Burks (RFA)
Arron Afflalo
DeMarre
Greald Green

Disagreeing is part of any interesting reflexion, it's just that we need to compare the right things, and not be too much fooled by the different situations
That's also why it's hard to imagine the impact of a player on another team.
The +/- I fear is the MIN one, because he has lower value than Rubio, Brewer, Love and Pekovic, and that Adelman is a coach asking to share the ball.

I admit that I would be more ready if he has one or two years left, but when I realize that the third year was the main problem in eyes, I took time to look at other negative/positive points.

We also know that we have problems to get good or very good F.A.,
so it may be simpler to get one guy already under contract with cap room, than signing one.
These RFA will be overpaid, so is it better to have Thompson for 15M or Martin for 7 and spend 8M on other things ?
And I don't want to hope that we can get Leonard in RFA because he was so much wanted by Bud when he was in SAS. He's a Spur for years.

Now, a deal for a 7M player who's not a star won't help the team to get more attendance or national TV games, unless it starts to really works and the team plays at least in ECF

I feel like we've had this exact conversation in the past before... deja vu or am I getting old?

But in all seriousness for 7M I'd rather re-sign DeMarre and add a guy like Iman Shumpert over having Kevin Martin.