Frank Kaminsky

[azuresou1]

Where would you guys draft him? I don't follow much college ball but based on the film I've seen he just looks so incredibly skilled for his size. He doesn't look as slow as all the draft reports say either.

He reminds me a lot of Bargnani on a good day, and I think he'd be a solid pick for us if we're picking mid-lotto.

[Hawk Eye]

What scares me is us drafting him and him turning into another Bargnani. Personally I wouldn't take him with a top 10 pick which it looks like we will have. There's just too many good wings that will be available when we are on the clock. I think Kaminsky will fall to the mid 1st round somewhere around 15,16,17.

[ATL Boy]

I wouldn't take him at 9 either (looks like we'll have the 9th pick). But I wouldn't be opposed to us trading down to the middle of the first, picking up an extra asset, and drafting Frank there.

[theatlfan]

Wouldn't touch him. Good college player, but don't see him doing much on the NBA stage and he has to go against someone with his height, athletic ability, and experience every night. Payne was clearly the better prospect and he wasn't good enough to stay here. Would prefer that we just said "no" to this year's Great White Hope regardless of where we draft.

[azuresou1]

Payne was better from an athletic standpoint but I think Kaminsky looks more polished and cerebral of a player.

Kaminsky arguably outplayed Jahil Okafor, who's a Top 3 pick so I think the argument he won't be able to deal with NBA length are a little unfounded. But I guess we'll see if/when he plays Kentucky and Towns.

[Jamaaliver]

I've been mulling this guy for a while now as well. I agree with Azure regarding him being a cerebral player. And his skill set and size bodes well for fitting in our system.

I just can't figure out if he's another Spencer Hawes or if that's even a good thing. I see him easily being a solid rotational player.

But he seems to have a low ceiling, or so it seems from the limited game film I have seen. I wouldn't draft him in the top 10. But in the mid teens he could be a solid draw.

[theatlfan]

Payne was better from an athletic standpoint but I think Kaminsky looks more polished and cerebral of a player.

Kaminsky arguably outplayed Jahil Okafor, who's a Top 3 pick so I think the argument he won't be able to deal with NBA length are a little unfounded. But I guess we'll see if/when he plays Kentucky and Towns.

I agree that he has more BBIQ than Payne, but let's not put too much stock into how he looks against a couple of freshmen - regardless of their talent. When Kaminsky was a FR and a SOPH, he was stuck behind Jared Berggren who was hardly a future NBA star. Just thinking that it's pretty rare that you find someone with subpar NBA athleticism be anything more than a backup grade player. BCS for Kaminsky is a Spencer Hawes in my mind with the realistic outcome along the lines of Mike Muscala who'll have a year+ head start on him. Honestly think that if we draft him, then we'll be looking to deal him within the year.

[King Ken]

Other then the fact that we don't need a center thanks to Walter Tavares, we really don't need Frank. Now if this was Towns or Okafor, I would understand.

[Hawk Eye]

Other then the fact that we don't need a center thanks to Walter Tavares, we really don't need Frank. Now if this was Towns or Okafor, I would understand.

You seem to be really sure that Tavares is coming over after this season. I haven't heard or seen anything that would back that up or say that he's definitely coming over next season. Do you have any sources or know something I don't?

[King Ken]

Other then the fact that we don't need a center thanks to Walter Tavares, we really don't need Frank. Now if this was Towns or Okafor, I would understand.

You seem to be really sure that Tavares is coming over after this season. I haven't heard or seen anything that would back that up or say that he's definitely coming over next season. Do you have any sources or know something I don't?

It's a sure thing at this point. Even Woj mention it during the Payne trade.

[Jamaaliver]

^Is Edy Tavares even a starter in Europe this season? Let's face it, if Muscala after four years of college ball and killing in that same Spanish league last season is stuck to our bench...why would we expect Bud to actually play edy who has never played multiple games in a week regularly and has been playing organized ball for only a few of years?

We really passing on possible starting caliber Centers in the lottery because drafted a guy who plays a few minutes per week?

[King Ken]

^Is Edy Tavares even a starter in Europe this season? Let's face it, if Muscala after four years of college ball and killing in that same Spanish league last season is stuck to our bench...why would we expect Bud to actually play edy who has never played multiple games in a week regularly and has been playing organized ball for only a few of years?

We really passing on possible starting caliber Centers in the lottery because drafted a guy who plays a few minutes per week?

Terrible take because it shows you do not understand the NBA game. Muscala game was suited for Europe. He's skilled and talented which he shows here. But he's also unathletic by NBA standards, has a poor wingspan, has the size of a NBA PF but the skill-set of a center and that's a MAJOR issue.

As for Edy, everything he does in Europe translates much better than Muscala because his mobility is elite for his size, his length and measureables are elite for the NBA and in the NBA, measureables matter not to mention, he has a center skill-set and runs the PnR very well. Think about this, he is bigger, stronger, quicker and more fundamentally sound right now than Rudy Gobert. You simply can't compare the two because the European game is played completely different than the NBA game and what's needed in Europe isn't in the NBA. This is the reason why a 2nd level Greek player can come into the NBA and in two short years establish himself as the future of the NBA while we get Greeks who are far more skilled can come in from top tier Greek teams and vastly struggle in the NBA. When you make a post like this, it's like saying we shouldn't draft Dennis because he plays in the lowly German league and he wasn't even one of the best PG's in Germany at the time. Well, two years later, it looks like passing on him was a big mistake. Last year, Mack was a much more skilled and a better player than Dennis. This year, Dennis looks better than him at everything and will continue to do so. There is a difference, in the NBA measureables matter. Same reason why Russell Westbrook is a superstar and his teammate who was always better in college, Darren Collison is an average NBA PG.

[theatlfan]

Not sure I'm following with Taveras here.

1st, I'm not 100% he can physically play 2500 minutes in a season. He has high arches which apparently can cause big time issues for big men.

2nd, in my limited viewings of his time in the SL, I didn't see a kid who was knocking on the door. Uncoordinated, not that skilled. You could tell when he took the floor (7'3" is very apparent even through the TV) but he still blended in with the legions of other SL guys who never get an NBA shot when the game was underway. Most d@mning was that he didn't play big which for someone who grew up on an island is actually pretty worrisome. If you're going to be a big in the NBA then you play big on the court too.

Now, sure, he has gifts that you simply can't teach, but there's also reason/s that someone with his apparent physical gifts fell out of the lotto - so forth into the 2nd. He just isn't that good of a basketball player, at least not yet, and at 22/23, the clock is ticking. Considering his draft position as well as his SL performance, I think if in a few years he turned into a decent 2nd string C who could protect the rim and get a few put backs at the rim for us, then I'd be very, very happy.

[King Ken]

Not sure I'm following with Taveras here.

1st, I'm not 100% he can physically play 2500 minutes in a season. He has high arches which apparently can cause big time issues for big men.

2nd, in my limited viewings of his time in the SL, I didn't see a kid who was knocking on the door. Uncoordinated, not that skilled. You could tell when he took the floor (7'3" is very apparent even through the TV) but he still blended in with the legions of other SL guys who never get an NBA shot when the game was underway. Most d@mning was that he didn't play big which for someone who grew up on an island is actually pretty worrisome. If you're going to be a big in the NBA then you play big on the court too.

Now, sure, he has gifts that you simply can't teach, but there's also reason/s that someone with his apparent physical gifts fell out of the lotto - so forth into the 2nd. He just isn't that good of a basketball player, at least not yet, and at 22/23, the clock is ticking. Considering his draft position as well as his SL performance, I think if in a few years he turned into a decent 2nd string C who could protect the rim and get a few put backs at the rim for us, then I'd be very, very happy.

1st, high arches is overstated. Especially considering he really hasn't missed any time nor has sprained or tore anything. Having reservations is one thing, reality of an injury is another. He's been a healthy player and that should continue.

2nd, it's limited indeed because he growth into a much better player compared to where he was in SL. I watch Herbalife GC play. He's there best player and last year he was there 7th best player and 3rd best big. His improvement was Dennis like. Last year, he was use as a spot starter and a key sub for the most part.

You really don't realize how foolish you sound. This is the same league that drafted Marc Gasol in the 2nd round, a 19 y.o. D. Jordan in the 2nd round, and in a weak draft, drafted a 21 y.o. Rudy Gobert with the 27th pick. You do realize that right? Man, shut it, you are pissing me off because I watch the games and what you are saying is nonsense. This is like telling me, Dennis sucks because I say him last year and he sucked so he sucks when he's clearly much better this year.

[azuresou1]

Is there a reason you're being so rude and condescending?

"shows you don't understand the NBA game"
"You don't realize how foolish you sound"
"Shut it, you are pissing me off"

[Hawk Eye]

I didn't want to be the first to say it but I'll second that ^

No need to be that rude toward a fellow hawk fan King Ken, we may not all have the same views on this board but we can't forget that we are all Hawks supporters.

[theatlfan]

1st, high arches is overstated. Especially considering he really hasn't missed any time nor has sprained or tore anything. Having reservations is one thing, reality of an injury is another. He's been a healthy player and that should continue.

2nd, it's limited indeed because he growth into a much better player compared to where he was in SL. I watch Herbalife GC play. He's there best player and last year he was there 7th best player and 3rd best big. His improvement was Dennis like. Last year, he was use as a spot starter and a key sub for the most part.

You really don't realize how foolish you sound. This is the same league that drafted Marc Gasol in the 2nd round, a 19 y.o. D. Jordan in the 2nd round, and in a weak draft, drafted a 21 y.o. Rudy Gobert with the 27th pick. You do realize that right? Man, shut it, you are pissing me off because I watch the games and what you are saying is nonsense. This is like telling me, Dennis sucks because I say him last year and he sucked so he sucks when he's clearly much better this year.

D***, another internet tough guy who seemingly can't handle rationale conversation without flying off the handle and attempting to be demeaning. Really that we got rid of those guys last year, but I guess one will always come out from under their rocks - especially when you have a good team. All my being says just to ignore him on this board and ridicule him elsewhere, but my momma taught me better so I'll take the high road for as long as I'm able. I just wish other moms did the same.

Few points here:
- With all the attention given to Embiid's injury leading up to the draft, I think we all have a pretty good idea of bigs and foot injuries (Quick Summation: they can be very problematic and limiting, but it's a case by case basis). Still, I seriously doubt that we can tell much about a latent issue by how much time lost has been experienced when the kid is playing a game or two when we're going to double that and increase the length of the season. For instance, other big men with high arches include Bill Walton and Yao Ming. Walton didn't miss much time through his HS and college years when the schedule wasn't as arduous and immediately became a walking injury when he got to the NBA. In his late 20's, it got so bad that Walton actually had surgery to lower his arches. Yao, OTOH, grew up in China where they completely run athletes into the ground at a young age and he had already started breaking his foot by the time he had made professional ball. Considering that Tavares only started playing basketball after Yao and Walton had started to get national acclaim, simply dismissing the issue seems naive at best.
- I always wonder if guys think they are actually proving a point when they cite the exceptions to a rule that have been rigorously proven. It's especially funny when the exceptions cited aren't really anywhere close to the point being proven in all but the most superficial of aspects. All this really proves is that the guy citing these examples most likely doesn't understand statistics. Look, there have been several studies which prove that the expectation of the value of a player that comes from a draft pick decreases as you go through the draft - even the raw numbers are very close to this with very few exceptions. The trick isn't to cite exceptions but to spell doubt that the prospect falls into the rule and might be the exception. Sorry, but his ability to be the #1 guy on a team that literally has no one else that would be any more than a borderline 10-day guy doesn't cast a huge shadow of doubt in my mind.
- Look, does this mean that I don't think Tavares could become a great player? No, I think of Tavares as a very good prospect since he still has tools that you can't teach. But as of last SL, he still had some very serious flaws that he was going to need to work through. Could he have worked them through this season? I guess so, but if you're using the fact that he beat out DaJuan Summers at C as proof to this then excuse me if I still color myself as very, very skeptical.

[King Ken]

1st, high arches is overstated. Especially considering he really hasn't missed any time nor has sprained or tore anything. Having reservations is one thing, reality of an injury is another. He's been a healthy player and that should continue.

2nd, it's limited indeed because he growth into a much better player compared to where he was in SL. I watch Herbalife GC play. He's there best player and last year he was there 7th best player and 3rd best big. His improvement was Dennis like. Last year, he was use as a spot starter and a key sub for the most part.

You really don't realize how foolish you sound. This is the same league that drafted Marc Gasol in the 2nd round, a 19 y.o. D. Jordan in the 2nd round, and in a weak draft, drafted a 21 y.o. Rudy Gobert with the 27th pick. You do realize that right? Man, shut it, you are pissing me off because I watch the games and what you are saying is nonsense. This is like telling me, Dennis sucks because I say him last year and he sucked so he sucks when he's clearly much better this year.

D***, another internet tough guy who seemingly can't handle rationale conversation without flying off the handle and attempting to be demeaning. Really that we got rid of those guys last year, but I guess one will always come out from under their rocks - especially when you have a good team. All my being says just to ignore him on this board and ridicule him elsewhere, but my momma taught me better so I'll take the high road for as long as I'm able. I just wish other moms did the same.

Few points here:
- With all the attention given to Embiid's injury leading up to the draft, I think we all have a pretty good idea of bigs and foot injuries (Quick Summation: they can be very problematic and limiting, but it's a case by case basis). Still, I seriously doubt that we can tell much about a latent issue by how much time lost has been experienced when the kid is playing a game or two when we're going to double that and increase the length of the season. For instance, other big men with high arches include Bill Walton and Yao Ming. Walton didn't miss much time through his HS and college years when the schedule wasn't as arduous and immediately became a walking injury when he got to the NBA. In his late 20's, it got so bad that Walton actually had surgery to lower his arches. Yao, OTOH, grew up in China where they completely run athletes into the ground at a young age and he had already started breaking his foot by the time he had made professional ball. Considering that Tavares only started playing basketball after Yao and Walton had started to get national acclaim, simply dismissing the issue seems naive at best.
- I always wonder if guys think they are actually proving a point when they cite the exceptions to a rule that have been rigorously proven. It's especially funny when the exceptions cited aren't really anywhere close to the point being proven in all but the most superficial of aspects. All this really proves is that the guy citing these examples most likely doesn't understand statistics. Look, there have been several studies which prove that the expectation of the value of a player that comes from a draft pick decreases as you go through the draft - even the raw numbers are very close to this with very few exceptions. The trick isn't to cite exceptions but to spell doubt that the prospect falls into the rule and might be the exception. Sorry, but his ability to be the #1 guy on a team that literally has no one else that would be any more than a borderline 10-day guy doesn't cast a huge shadow of doubt in my mind.
- Look, does this mean that I don't think Tavares could become a great player? No, I think of Tavares as a very good prospect since he still has tools that you can't teach. But as of last SL, he still had some very serious flaws that he was going to need to work through. Could he have worked them through this season? I guess so, but if you're using the fact that he beat out DaJuan Summers at C as proof to this then excuse me if I still color myself as very, very skeptical.

If you knew what you were talking about, I would have approached you differently. You wrote all of that and not one sentence is even accurate in regards to this player. Have several seats.

[King Ken]

Is there a reason you're being so rude and condescending?

"shows you don't understand the NBA game"
"You don't realize how foolish you sound"
"Shut it, you are pissing me off"

I don't handle know it all who admit they know nothing current about the subject well. That's like us talking about Russia and he talks about the Soviet Union and we are talking about modern day Russia. Why do you ask me a damn question and not the know it all who knows nothing?

[azuresou1]

Then maybe you can be a mature adult and explain why that person is misinformed? I don't think anyone claimed to know it all about Tavares other than you. In fact, everyone acknowledged their uncertainty and unfamiliarity with him.

I'm asking you the question because YOU'RE the one being a condescending know-it-all jackass, not him.