Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 2)

[HMFFL]

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[Jamaaliver]

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^Intriguing article:

Butler transformed this year's 'Wolves with two-way play. He defended the opponent's best wing, ran the offense down the stretch and is the player most responsible for ending (fingers crossed) Minnesota's 13-year playoff drought. He is a better scorer, passer, rebounder, defender and leader than Wiggins, and the numbers aren't particularly close in any major statistical category.

None of this is the same as saying Wiggins is an objectively bad player.

...it remains true that the Wolves' net rating is 4.3 points per 100 possessions better when Wiggins plays. Butler and Towns smoke him in that category, but plus-4.3 is fine.


And Wiggins has been fine since Butler went down, according to William Bohl of A Wolf Among Wolves:

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The porous defense this year is largely inexcusable. But the worsened offensive play seems to stem from a poor pairing alongside J Butler. The fact Wiggins has played better of late while Butler is out only confirms as much.

But it's not the first time we've seen young players struggle to play beside ball-dominant veterans before.

And that likely wouldn't be an issue here, anyway.

A charitable scan of Wiggins' career requires acknowledging that until this year, he'd increased his usage and scoring efficiency for three straight seasons. Perhaps Butler's presence, while obviously positive for the Wolves, knocked Wiggins' development off course.

[tbhawksfan1]

if he can't handle playing with better players, maybe he should try a bottom-dweller. Might teach him a lesson. Maybe not because Minny was a bottom dweller until this season.

Maybe shut up and step up...

[kg01]

if he can't handle playing with better players, maybe he should try a bottom-dweller. Might teach him a lesson. Maybe not because Minny was a bottom dweller until this season.

Maybe shut up and step up...

To be fair, the MIN beat writer is saying that story is probably made-up or was at least poorly-sourced. IIRC, the "story" was something the writer was told that by someone he heard Wiggins tell someone else (huh?).

Smells like an attention-grab by the writer.

All I'm saying is I don't really think Wiggins actually said anything that's being attributed to him so I won't kill him for it just yet. If he's available, it's because MIN is having buyer's remorse. Which could explain the odd story which almost sounds like it was planted (to turn public opinion).

Ok, I'll take my tinfoil hat off.

[Spud2nique]

if he can't handle playing with better players, maybe he should try a bottom-dweller. Might teach him a lesson. Maybe not because Minny was a bottom dweller until this season.

Maybe shut up and step up...

To be fair, the MIN beat writer is saying that story is probably made-up or was at least poorly-sourced. IIRC, the "story" was something the writer was told that by someone he heard Wiggins tell someone else (huh?).

Smells like an attention-grab by the writer.

All I'm saying is I don't really think Wiggins actually said anything that's being attributed to him so I won't kill him for it just yet. If he's available, it's because MIN is having buyer's remorse. Which could explain the odd story which almost sounds like it was planted (to turn public opinion).

Ok, I'll take my tinfoil hat off.

NO...keep it..it’s a good look on you..-Gonzo

[kg01]

if he can't handle playing with better players, maybe he should try a bottom-dweller. Might teach him a lesson. Maybe not because Minny was a bottom dweller until this season.

Maybe shut up and step up...

To be fair, the MIN beat writer is saying that story is probably made-up or was at least poorly-sourced. IIRC, the "story" was something the writer was told that by someone he heard Wiggins tell someone else (huh?).

Smells like an attention-grab by the writer.

All I'm saying is I don't really think Wiggins actually said anything that's being attributed to him so I won't kill him for it just yet. If he's available, it's because MIN is having buyer's remorse. Which could explain the odd story which almost sounds like it was planted (to turn public opinion).

Ok, I'll take my tinfoil hat off.

NO...keep it..it’s a good look on you..-Gonzo

Aw man I miss my dawg, gonz.

On another note, I think I'm done with the trades forum for a while. Every Hawk-related deal begins and ends with us taking on a billion dollars in salary for a late 1st. I mean, if anybody wanted Noah's contract they would've traded for him by now. And all these proposed Bayless-to-ATL deals are getting tiring.

[Spud2nique]

To be fair, the MIN beat writer is saying that story is probably made-up or was at least poorly-sourced. IIRC, the "story" was something the writer was told that by someone he heard Wiggins tell someone else (huh?).

Smells like an attention-grab by the writer.

All I'm saying is I don't really think Wiggins actually said anything that's being attributed to him so I won't kill him for it just yet. If he's available, it's because MIN is having buyer's remorse. Which could explain the odd story which almost sounds like it was planted (to turn public opinion).

Ok, I'll take my tinfoil hat off.

NO...keep it..it’s a good look on you..-Gonzo

Aw man I miss my dawg, gonz.

On another note, I think I'm done with the trades forum for a while. Every Hawk-related deal begins and ends with us taking on a billion dollars in salary for a late 1st. I mean, if anybody wanted Noah's contract they would've traded for him by now. And all these proposed Bayless-to-ATL deals are getting tiring.

Bayless and Noah??? I know the lockdown tank kills your conception of time but what year are we in?

[kg01]

NO...keep it..it’s a good look on you..-Gonzo

Aw man I miss my dawg, gonz.

On another note, I think I'm done with the trades forum for a while. Every Hawk-related deal begins and ends with us taking on a billion dollars in salary for a late 1st. I mean, if anybody wanted Noah's contract they would've traded for him by now. And all these proposed Bayless-to-ATL deals are getting tiring.

Bayless and Noah??? I know the lockdown tank kills your conception of time but what year are we in?

Uh yeah, that's what I'm saying. People think we're supposed to take them dudes just to get marginally better draft picks. Madness.

[jayu70]

To be fair, the MIN beat writer is saying that story is probably made-up or was at least poorly-sourced. IIRC, the "story" was something the writer was told that by someone he heard Wiggins tell someone else (huh?).

Smells like an attention-grab by the writer.

All I'm saying is I don't really think Wiggins actually said anything that's being attributed to him so I won't kill him for it just yet. If he's available, it's because MIN is having buyer's remorse. Which could explain the odd story which almost sounds like it was planted (to turn public opinion).

Ok, I'll take my tinfoil hat off.

NO...keep it..it’s a good look on you..-Gonzo

Aw man I miss my dawg, gonz.

On another note, I think I'm done with the trades forum for a while. Every Hawk-related deal begins and ends with us taking on a billion dollars in salary for a late 1st. I mean, if anybody wanted Noah's contract they would've traded for him by now. And all these proposed Bayless-to-ATL deals are getting tiring.

You saw that one too. I keep saying I'll stay away but I get sucked back in.
#19, #30, #32 plus a cool $40 million to move up 10 spots from #19 to #9.
Denver and Philly NEEDS to dump bad salary but still somehow end up with a 1st round pick going back to them, smh.

[King Ken]

I see the trade and transactions board posting horrible trades ideas with the Hawks. Someone literally said the Hawks should take on trash salary AND trade picks to move up to the 9th pick. I kid you not, the trade and transactions board have the worst fans in the NBA by a mile.

[atlantabbq99]

I see the trade and transactions board posting horrible trades ideas with the Hawks. Someone literally said the Hawks should take on trash salary AND trade picks to move up to the 9th pick. I kid you not, the trade and transactions board have the worst fans in the NBA by a mile.

If the Hawks end up getting #1 and the 9th pick ended up being Carter or Young, I would do it.

[tbhawksfan1]

The Hawks are rebuilding through the draft. How do you get the picks necessary to do that? Trade better players for worse, lose, trade picks for a better pick or be willing to get picks by absorbing bad salary.

For a rebuilding team option 4 is not a bad strategy. When a team bottoms out (tanks), it's starting a long period of losing and developping with the only return being the ability to improve draft stock and produce future team improvement.

It's very difficult to pull off. You have to acquire enough top young talent to create a future winning curve that will hopefully produce a contention window.

If said team isn't willing to bite the bullet during the initial sucking period and maximize the young talent acquisition, the contention window will likely never happen.

At this point in the Hawks rebuild I take any bad contract that maxes Hawks draft stock. Two or three years of absorbing a useless player has no effect on the team during the suck period of the rebuild. Those bad contracts will expire just when the Hawks will be in position to start adding to the team with a key FA or two.

[jayu70]

There is renting capspace of example $16 mil for a first for a year, which is ok.
Taking on $40+ mil to move up 10 spots while also giving up two additional 1sts and a 2nd picks is financial suicide and not managing assets appropriately.

[tbhawksfan1]

If that's for me... that is not an example of a trade I would do. I'd do Plum and #34 for Noah and #9 though. Like you guys, I don't want to try to debate bad offers on the trade board, but as I said, taking on some bad salary to get a nice pick is a good early rebuild strategy.

[dms269]

I don't think a Bayless for 21 is that horrible of a deal. You eat 8.5M for a first round pick. It's a lot better than what we got when we took on Crawford's deal for the Houston first. It then gives us another first to hopefully package to move up (or replace a lost Minny first that doesn't convey).

I get the idea of not taking on large amounts of salary, but we need to be realistic in the fact that some of are players are bad contracts as well. Noah's deal is bad, but it is only 6M more per season than Plumlee's. Think that dumpinga total of 18M more is worth moving down 25 spots is a bit ridiculous.

[jayu70]

I don't think a Bayless for 21 is that horrible of a deal. You eat 8.5M for a first round pick. It's a lot better than what we got when we took on Crawford's deal for the Houston first. It then gives us another first to hopefully package to move up (or replace a lost Minny first that doesn't convey).

I get the idea of not taking on large amounts of salary, but we need to be realistic in the fact that some of are players are bad contracts as well. Noah's deal is bad, but it is only 6M more per season than Plumlee's. Think that dumpinga total of 18M more is worth moving down 25 spots is a bit ridiculous.

Agreed on the Bayless for 21. It's the entirety of the deal and what the Hawks ended up with was my major issue.
What I also didn't like was that teams NEEDING to dump the contracts still ended up with decent picks.

[King Ken]

I don't think a Bayless for 21 is that horrible of a deal. You eat 8.5M for a first round pick. It's a lot better than what we got when we took on Crawford's deal for the Houston first. It then gives us another first to hopefully package to move up (or replace a lost Minny first that doesn't convey).

I get the idea of not taking on large amounts of salary, but we need to be realistic in the fact that some of are players are bad contracts as well. Noah's deal is bad, but it is only 6M more per season than Plumlee's. Think that dumpinga total of 18M more is worth moving down 25 spots is a bit ridiculous.

I think it is a terrible deal. This isn't last year's class. I don't think the depth is all that great in this class. I also think some of the players we think could be available might not enter this year's class.

I rather hold the space and use it to get a lottery pick in next year's class in a trade. I would much rather take Bayless and #10(LAL) for HOU pick instead.

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[King Ken]

If that's for me... that is not an example of a trade I would do. I'd do Plum and #34 for Noah and #9 though. Like you guys, I don't want to try to debate bad offers on the trade board, but as I said, taking on some bad salary to get a nice pick is a good early rebuild strategy.

I would do it as well but I doubt NYK would. They probably value #9 more than Noah contract. Considering their need for a center or PG. I don't see them trading that pick in a class that has quality prospects in those positions.

Philly is a team I could see making this type of move.

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[dms269]

I don't think a Bayless for 21 is that horrible of a deal. You eat 8.5M for a first round pick. It's a lot better than what we got when we took on Crawford's deal for the Houston first. It then gives us another first to hopefully package to move up (or replace a lost Minny first that doesn't convey).

I get the idea of not taking on large amounts of salary, but we need to be realistic in the fact that some of are players are bad contracts as well. Noah's deal is bad, but it is only 6M more per season than Plumlee's. Think that dumpinga total of 18M more is worth moving down 25 spots is a bit ridiculous.

I think it is a terrible deal. This isn't last year's class. I don't think the depth is all that great in this class. I also think some of the players we think could be available might not enter this year's class.

I rather hold the space and use it to get a lottery pick in next year's class in a trade. I would much rather take Bayless and #10(LAL) for HOU pick instead.

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If you are going to wait until a team is offering a lottery pick for eating only 8.5M in salary, you are going to be waiting for a while. There is no legitimate reason for Philly to offer to drop down 20 spots for eating a one year deal that is only worth 8.5M.

Uisng that argument the only legitimate way for Atlanta to get rid of Bazemore's or Plumlee's albatross of a contact is to give up our own first round pick.

[jayu70]

I don't think a Bayless for 21 is that horrible of a deal. You eat 8.5M for a first round pick. It's a lot better than what we got when we took on Crawford's deal for the Houston first. It then gives us another first to hopefully package to move up (or replace a lost Minny first that doesn't convey).

I get the idea of not taking on large amounts of salary, but we need to be realistic in the fact that some of are players are bad contracts as well. Noah's deal is bad, but it is only 6M more per season than Plumlee's. Think that dumpinga total of 18M more is worth moving down 25 spots is a bit ridiculous.

I think it is a terrible deal. This isn't last year's class. I don't think the depth is all that great in this class. I also think some of the players we think could be available might not enter this year's class.

I rather hold the space and use it to get a lottery pick in next year's class in a trade. I would much rather take Bayless and #10(LAL) for HOU pick instead.

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Of course Bayless and #10 for #30 is better than Bayless for #21. I doubt you get a top #10 lottery pick for an expiring contract especially from a team that has capspace.