Jamaaliver wrote:NOTE: It was Iso-Joe Johnson and Josh Smith who led us to mediocrity. Horford was just a complementary piece for his first few years. And even his last season here...was playing second babana to Paul Millsap.
Yes and no. Woody didn't help and encouraged bad offense, Joe didn't move the ball, Josh was petulant, Rick Sund did nothing with our assets... but Horford is also to blame for not being assertive and establishing his presence (Marvin too).
The problem with the Hawks is that they haven't had a true locker room LEADER in... basically forever. It's just been a team filled with 'nice guys' and a few petulant guys (Josh, Dennis).
I'm okay with us drafting a 'nice guy' (JJJ, Bamba) in the draft, but we will need at some point to draft an alpha guy (hence - why I want Doncic).
azuresou1 wrote:I'm okay with us drafting a 'nice guy' (JJJ, Bamba) in the draft, but we will need at some point to draft an alpha guy (hence - why I want Doncic).
Now, on this we 100% agree.
I simply acknowledge that the alpha guy may not be available to us this draft and thusly, and am content stacking high level, high character, productive contributors in the meanwhile.
I also acknowledge that we might need to acquire an Alpha via another avenue. (Trades, Free Agency) Having attractive, productive tangible assets can help make that possible.
jayu70 wrote:Exactly. Stars beget other stars, that's not Al.
That's interesting since AL's signing helped pave the way for Hayward's signing which has suddenly made Boston an attractive destination for stars again.
I think that's really stretching the truth. Hayward was coming to Boston with or without Horford because of his relationship with Stevens and that Ainge had loaded the team with young talent.
jayu70 wrote:Exactly. Stars beget other stars, that's not Al.
That's interesting since AL's signing helped pave the way for Hayward's signing which has suddenly made Boston an attractive destination for stars again.
No, Hayward had always had eyes for Boston. because of Brad. Edit: and neither are the type of stars I'm talking about that.
jayu70 wrote:Exactly. Stars beget other stars, that's not Al.
That's interesting since AL's signing helped pave the way for Hayward's signing which has suddenly made Boston an attractive destination for stars again.
I think that's really stretching the truth. Hayward was coming to Boston with or without Horford because of his relationship with Stevens and that Ainge had loaded the team with young talent.
Hey don't get in the way of Selltic delusions. They need to believe the narrative.
jayu70 wrote:Exactly. Stars beget other stars, that's not Al.
That's interesting since AL's signing helped pave the way for Hayward's signing which has suddenly made Boston an attractive destination for stars again.
I think that's really stretching the truth. Hayward was coming to Boston with or without Horford because of his relationship with Stevens and that Ainge had loaded the team with young talent.
Yikes. I've long heard the opposite. That Boston couldn't get any top free agents to sign there for a variety of reasons. Hello, after AL signed, they even got a meeting with Durant that summer...
a meeting he wouldn't grant us at all, despite having an identical record to BOS that year.
Spoiler:
Finally, Boston is a free-agent destination
For two decades, it has been said that big-name free agents would never come to Boston. Sure, Boston's lack of cap space worked against the team for most of those years, but still the narrative continued. But that all changed Saturday...
When Al Horford tweeted his intentions to sign with the Celtics at 7:15 p.m. ET on Saturday night -- right around the time Ainge and Thomas were delivering their sales pitch to Kevin Durant in the Hamptons -- Boston became a free-agent destination for perhaps the first time in franchise history.
When Al Horford tweeted his intentions to sign with the Celtics at 7:15 p.m. ET on Saturday night -- right around the time Ainge and Thomas were delivering their sales pitch to Kevin Durant in the Hamptons -- Boston became a free-agent destination for perhaps the first time in franchise history.
But my point remains the same:
Spoiler:
Celtics sign Al Horford to four-year, $113 million deal
Boston has never been a hotbed destination for free agents, and the signing of Horford may not necessarily change that significantly.
But make no mistake about it: the game’s top players and their representatives are not going to be as apprehensive as we’ve seen in the past when it comes to potentially playing for the Celtics.
Jamaaliver wrote: That's interesting since AL's signing helped pave the way for Hayward's signing which has suddenly made Boston an attractive destination for stars again.
I think that's really stretching the truth. Hayward was coming to Boston with or without Horford because of his relationship with Stevens and that Ainge had loaded the team with young talent.
Yikes. I've long heard the opposite. That Boston couldn't get any top free agents to sign there for a variety of reasons. Hello, after AL signed, they even got a meeting with Durant that summer...
a meeting he wouldn't grant us at all, despite having an identical record to BOS that year.
Spoiler:
Finally, Boston is a free-agent destination
For two decades, it has been said that big-name free agents would never come to Boston. Sure, Boston's lack of cap space worked against the team for most of those years, but still the narrative continued. But that all changed Saturday...
When Al Horford tweeted his intentions to sign with the Celtics at 7:15 p.m. ET on Saturday night -- right around the time Ainge and Thomas were delivering their sales pitch to Kevin Durant in the Hamptons -- Boston became a free-agent destination for perhaps the first time in franchise history.
Seems like you are destroying your own argument. They already had a meeting with Durant before Al signed and then Durant ended up not signing. The only free agent they've signed since Al got their was another B-level 'star' who had ties to the coach.
macd-gm wrote:The only free agent they've signed since Al got their was another B-level 'star' who had ties to the coach.
I will simply, respectfully disagree.
If Boston was coming off another 48-win, first round playoff defeat with no long term proven pieces aboard...I think Hayward takes the extra money/years and stays in Utah or considers the Miami offer.
The coaching ties definitely helped, though. But I don't think Celtics were a done deal until they acquired our All Star for nothing.
Not signing a top free agent in decades ---> signing top free Agents in consecutive summers?
macd-gm wrote:The only free agent they've signed since Al got their was another B-level 'star' who had ties to the coach.
I will simply, respectfully disagree.
If Boston was coming off another 48-win, first round playoff defeat with no long term proven pieces aboard...I think Hayward takes the extra money/years and stays in Utah or considers the Miami offer.
The coaching ties definitely helped, though. But I don't think Celtics were a done deal until they acquired our All Star for nothing.
Not signing a top free agent in decades ---> signing top free Agents in consecutive summers?
But you can't give Al credit for Al signing with the Celtics. What made Boston a free agent destination for Al? Al signed there because they had a very bright future that all could see. So again, if you are trying to give Al credit for making Boston a free agent destination then Hayward is the only proof. That ain't much and it certainly can't be attributed only to Al or even mostly to Al.
macd-gm wrote:But you can't give Al credit for Al signing with the Celtics. What made Boston a free agent destination for Al? Al signed there because they had a very bright future that all could see. So again, if you are trying to give Al credit for making Boston a free agent destination then Hayward is the only proof. That ain't much and it certainly can't be attributed only to Al or even mostly to Al.
1. I've forgotten about what we're evn debating here.
2. No. The consensus was not that the Celtics had a bright future. You're two friends here were literally arguing the opposite one week before Free Agency started in 2016.
jayu70 wrote:Just pointing out the Celtics 'assets' and Danny 'the genius GM' = overrated.
jayu70 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:^It certainly wasn't great. They had a top 3 pick and didn't even get a consensus top 5 prospect. Word is Danny Ainge had options to trade #3, but kept asking for too much...trying to win the deal instead of simply improve his team.
Their later picks were mind boggling reaches.
The most positive of their reviews (that I saw):
However ... I really don't think this was that disastrous for the Celtics. Thursday may not have featured any brilliant moves, but it wasn't stupid, either. I'd be more excited that they didn't cave into pressure and make the wrong deal.
The Celtics bet on Jaylen Brown, who has the best chance of anyone outside of Brandon Ingram of turning into a two-way star on the wing. Brown at least has the potential to turn into a killer two–way player.
Like I said, the problem was Danny had a bag of nickles and dimes trying to pass them off as GOLD coins. Nickles and Dimes are useful but just not worth much.
MaceCase wrote:Here's a perfect summary of Ainge last night.
LOSER Boston Celtics The best draft night of Danny Ainge's tenure running the Celtics came nine years ago, when he was able to select Jeff Green and ship him to Seattle in exchange for Ray Allen. That move set the table for Boston to acquire Kevin Garnett later that summer to form a Hall of Fame trio that produced two Finals trips and an NBA championship in 2008. Ever since Allen, Garnett and Paul Pierce moved on, Ainge has been stacking assets with the hope – or expectation – that he could pull off another franchise-altering deal.
Word is Danny Ainge had options to trade #3, but kept asking for too much...trying to win the deal instead of simply improve his team.
See how the narrative gets flipped for dear old Danny boy? Most everyone else will say "no one was interested in your middling picks and mediocre roster anyway", it was a consensus amongst multiple teams that they were having trouble flipping their picks but for Danny boy? "Nooooo, he only couldn't get a deal done for a star because he got too greedy"
In a pre-Tatum world, with a team built around Jae Crowder, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley and Jared Sullinger...no one thought the Celtics had a bright future.
Their assets were described as nickels and dimes and middling, their roster as mediocre.
And they still managed to pull AL to a 48 win team that we beat in the first round.
macd-gm wrote:The only free agent they've signed since Al got their was another B-level 'star' who had ties to the coach.
I will simply, respectfully disagree.
If Boston was coming off another 48-win, first round playoff defeat with no long term proven pieces aboard...I think Hayward takes the extra money/years and stays in Utah or considers the Miami offer.
The coaching ties definitely helped, though. But I don't think Celtics were a done deal until they acquired our All Star for nothing.
Not signing a top free agent in decades ---> signing top free Agents in consecutive summers?
Have you met a guy named Supes? Y’all should go out and discuss how to bury a shrub in the winter, and great oldies like Casablanca..oh and how Karl Malone had nothing on ALice...
Final NBA mock draft 2018: Celtics trading Jaylen Brown for lottery pick?
3. Boston Celtics via Atlanta Hawks
The trade: Boston sends Jaylen Brown and Memphis’ 2019 first rounder (top-eight protected) to Atlanta for the No. 3 overall pick.
The pick: Luka Doncic, SG, Slovenia
The reason: The best prospect in the draft fall’s into Danny Ainge’s lap. The Hawks play the long game, taking back a young asset and a pick that could turn into something special down the line. Is the potential two-for-one worth it for Atlanta? Time will tell.
Boston now gets to roll out this group in 2018-19: Kyrie Irving, Luka Doncic, Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum and Al Horford. Add in Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier and Marcus Morris off the bench and the picture of a dynamic eight-man rotation is present.
