Future of Hawks Basketball

[ATL Boy]

I'm all for getting a true GM and having Bud just coach, but Bud's contract is expiring. I'm scared that he'll feel shortsighted if we take him out of his position in power, and that we'll lost a top 5 coach as a result.

[Jamaaliver]

I'm all for getting a true GM and having Bud just coach, but Bud's contract is expiring. I'm scared that he'll feel shortsighted if we take him out of his position in power, and that we'll lost a top 5 coach as a result.

I do love Bud as coach and hope he's here for decades...but the thought of being held hostage because Mike Budenholzer might walk away if he's unhappy is a terrifying way to operate.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[Geaux_Hawks]

I doubt Buds decides to leave. Would be totally shocking to be quite honest.

[atlantabbq99]

Plan A is to make a pitch to Kevin Durant. If that doesn't work, then go hard for Harrison Barnes and offer him a Harden size contract. If that doesn't work, then trade one of the point guards for a high enough draft pick to get Jaylen Brown.

[PandaKidd]

I'm all for getting a true GM and having Bud just coach, but Bud's contract is expiring. I'm scared that he'll feel shortsighted if we take him out of his position in power, and that we'll lost a top 5 coach as a result.

I do love Bud as coach and hope he's here for decades...but the thought of being held hostage because Mike Budenholzer might walk away if he's unhappy is a terrifying way to operate.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

Im with this.

What is Mike Budenholzer? A great coach? YES. A Coach you cant walk away from? hardly.

Hes a 40-45 win Coach that cant get past Lebron, welcome to almost every coach in the Eastern Conference. The Hawks 19 game winning streak is his sole "accomplishment". Getting to the ECF last year I think is a great, but, lets be real here. he got by 2 horribly injured and terribly hobbled teams that we should have dispatched much easier (at least the nets should have been swept).

He coached a mediocre Horfordless team to 7 games in ROUND 1 and lost. He coached a overachieving team to a sweep vs the Cavaliers in the ECF. He got his brains beat in by Lebron this year.

His Personnel decisions have been atrocious IMO with the following being negative:
Draft and trade of Payne
Trading of a 15 pick for a late 1st from the PREVIOUS YEAR
refusal to deal teague at the deadline for anything

I like his pickup of Humph, I like his PLAYER DEVELOPMENT (taking guys like DMC/baze etc and making them contributing starters). But Bud has A LONG way to go. Hes made very very poor late game decisions and we will always ask why he didnt put Kris on TT or play him earlier in the series. WHY?

Remember when Scott was in the doghouse last year?

I do not want to lose him, but hes done nothing to warrant the same power as Pop and Rivers except luck into that role because of a Ferry read scouting report and the FO was influx over a franchise sale.

[jayu70]

Yeah but you cant really get younger talent through trade without moving your vets. We arent in the position the Spurs were in, and FYI the Spurs were the worst team in the league thats how they got Duncan. Youre advocating against tanking and blowing it up.

Im sorry, we dont have HOF talent on this roster. We dont even have DOMINANT people at their position. We have VERY GOOD players.

Again our ONLY trade pieces really are Millsap and DS. thats it. Show me some way you acquire better talent without "tanking" and im all ears.

The Spurs didn't trade their Vets and tanked when they got Duncan - they were an injury riddled team that year. Pop played it smart by keeping them out longer than was neccessary. When Timmy joined he still had a bunch of Vets in Duncan, Elliot, Avery etc around him. Totally different circumstance - just saying, not advocating for or against a tank.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I'm all for getting a true GM and having Bud just coach, but Bud's contract is expiring. I'm scared that he'll feel shortsighted if we take him out of his position in power, and that we'll lost a top 5 coach as a result.

I do love Bud as coach and hope he's here for decades...but the thought of being held hostage because Mike Budenholzer might walk away if he's unhappy is a terrifying way to operate.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

Im with this.

What is Mike Budenholzer? A great coach? YES. A Coach you cant walk away from? hardly.

Hes a 40-45 win Coach that cant get past Lebron, welcome to almost every coach in the Eastern Conference. The Hawks 19 game winning streak is his sole "accomplishment". Getting to the ECF last year I think is a great, but, lets be real here. he got by 2 horribly injured and terribly hobbled teams that we should have dispatched much easier (at least the nets should have been swept).

He coached a mediocre Horfordless team to 7 games in ROUND 1 and lost. He coached a overachieving team to a sweep vs the Cavaliers in the ECF. He got his brains beat in by Lebron this year.

His Personnel decisions have been atrocious IMO with the following being negative:
Draft and trade of Payne
Trading of a 15 pick for a late 1st from the PREVIOUS YEAR
refusal to deal teague at the deadline for anything

I like his pickup of Humph, I like his PLAYER DEVELOPMENT (taking guys like DMC/baze etc and making them contributing starters). But Bud has A LONG way to go. Hes made very very poor late game decisions and we will always ask why he didnt put Kris on TT or play him earlier in the series. WHY?

Remember when Scott was in the doghouse last year?

I do not want to lose him, but hes done nothing to warrant the same power as Pop and Rivers except luck into that role because of a Ferry read scouting report and the FO was influx over a franchise sale.

I think you're wrong here. The personnel he has to work with isn't all great. He's turned benched players(Korver, Bazemore, DMC) into quality starters for us, which correlates with his ability to develop players as you can see with THJ and Dennis also.

He hasn't always made the best coaching decision, but most of the time, he does make the rights calls. Whether that be with making adjustments at the half, switching starters, figuring out rotations, etc..

One thing to keep in mind, is that coaches like Pop, Phil, Carlisle, Doc, and whoever don't just take mediocre talent to the promise land. They all have had some pretty good talent to work with too. Phil couldn't take the Lakers all the way even with Kobe dragging the team.

I can agree that he doesn't need to be in a GM role, but he definitely needs to be back as a coach no matter what. If anything, we could give him the role of a GM, but have someone with actual GM knowledge above him to assist and over-rule poor decisions.

[Jamaaliver]

Bud's public rhetoric early indicate he's still in favor of keeping this core in tact:

Despite being swept in the playoffs for the second straight season at the hands of LeBron James, Mike Budenholzer doesn’t believe the Atlanta Hawks should break up their core.

The coach and team president wants to re-sign free agents Al Horford and Kent Bazemore.

“Losing to Cleveland twice is tough,” Budenholzer said after the Hawks met for the final time for the season on Monday. “But to the fanbase, to people who think (about blowing it up), if we want to find a way to beat, whether it be Cleveland or whoever the great teams in the league or our conference are, blowing it up is probably not the way to beat a team like Cleveland.”

Here

[jayu70]

Bud's public rhetoric early indicate he's still in favor of keeping this core in tact:

Despite being swept in the playoffs for the second straight season at the hands of LeBron James, Mike Budenholzer doesn’t believe the Atlanta Hawks should break up their core.

The coach and team president wants to re-sign free agents Al Horford and Kent Bazemore.

“Losing to Cleveland twice is tough,” Budenholzer said after the Hawks met for the final time for the season on Monday. “But to the fanbase, to people who think (about blowing it up), if we want to find a way to beat, whether it be Cleveland or whoever the great teams in the league or our conference are, blowing it up is probably not the way to beat a team like Cleveland.”

Here

I didn't expect him to say any different. It'll be foolish for him to say he's not interested in having them back at his point.

[PandaKidd]

I can agree that he doesn't need to be in a GM role, but he definitely needs to be back as a coach no matter what. If anything, we could give him the role of a GM, but have someone with actual GM knowledge above him to assist and over-rule poor decisions.

We already have that doe

[Jamaaliver]

Bud's public rhetoric early indicate he's still in favor of keeping this core in tact:

I didn't expect him to say any different. It'll be foolish for him to say he's not interested in having them back at his point.

I suppose. But coming off of a sweep for the second straight post-season...seems unwise to immediately double-down on the same tactics and approach.

A more polished PR person would at least give the generic response: "We love our group. But we'll look at all avenues to improve our team moving forward."


Immediately publicly advocating to bring all these guys back is...not awesome. Especially when we lost 11 straight to a single team.

[PandaKidd]

Maybe the strategy is like last year, bring back Horford, then look to trade him in a year.

Let Baze walk and look to improve there.

I fully expect vanilla moves this offseason. SAFE moves

[ATL Boy]

I haven't looked very in depth at this draft past the top 10 picks. Who are some of the SF's we could realistically get at 21?

I wouldn't mind getting a defensive specialist and helping him develop his offensive game over the years, a la Jimmy Butler.

[MaceCase]

Bud's public rhetoric early indicate he's still in favor of keeping this core in tact:

Despite being swept in the playoffs for the second straight season at the hands of LeBron James, Mike Budenholzer doesn’t believe the Atlanta Hawks should break up their core.

The coach and team president wants to re-sign free agents Al Horford and Kent Bazemore.

“Losing to Cleveland twice is tough,” Budenholzer said after the Hawks met for the final time for the season on Monday. “But to the fanbase, to people who think (about blowing it up), if we want to find a way to beat, whether it be Cleveland or whoever the great teams in the league or our conference are, blowing it up is probably not the way to beat a team like Cleveland.”

Here

I didn't expect him to say any different. It'll be foolish for him to say he's not interested in having them back at his point.

He made a perfectly logical statement. If you can't step over a certain team how does stepping backwards help you to achieve that goal....

Oh, you blow it up and in 5 years maybe you can beat Cleveland when this iteration of Cleveland no longer exists?

Bud learned under Ferry so he should know a thing or two about being reactionary. Ferry built Cleveland to take on Detroit when they were the class of the East, they got over that hump but then Boston emerged. Ferry then makes moves to counter Boston and the Cavs get smacked by Dwight and Orlando. Ferry goes out to find a Dwight stopper and Boston reemerges and smacks them again, next thing LeBron takes his talents elsewhere and the makeup of the Eastern conference changes yet again.

[Jamaaliver]

I haven't looked very in depth at this draft past the top 10 picks. Who are some of the SF's we could realistically get at 21?

I wouldn't mind getting a defensive specialist and helping him develop his offensive game over the years, a la Jimmy Butler.

Or ala Kawhi!!!

#15 last year could have netted us Kelly Oubre, Justin Anderson(!), or Rondae Hollis Jefferson.

We got THJ instead. Any chance he takes a HUUUGE step next season to become a permanent fixture in the starting 5?

Or did his poor post-season someone somewhat squash the optimisim/momentum he'd gained in march?

[ATL Boy]

I haven't looked very in depth at this draft past the top 10 picks. Who are some of the SF's we could realistically get at 21?

I wouldn't mind getting a defensive specialist and helping him develop his offensive game over the years, a la Jimmy Butler.

Or ala Kawhi!!!

#15 last year could have netted us Kelly Oubre, Justin Anderson(!), or Rondae Hollis Jefferson.

We got THJ instead. Any chance he takes a HUUUGE step next season to become a permanent fixture in the starting 5?

Or did his poor post-season someone squash the optimisim/momentum he'd gained in march?

I'm absolutely optimistic on THJ. I think the groin injury he suffered against Washington ended up lingering a bit.

Having a full summer to work on his game and with our assistant coaches should do wonders for him.

[wallsfamily]

As a fifty year old who attended his first Hawks game in 1977 (Truck Robinson and John Drew baby) I must say that sometimes we forget to address the elephant in the room. The Spurs System has been maxed out due to both ability of personnel and the continued horrid follow up drafting. Remember that Horford and Teague are carryovers and Schroeder and Scott are the only real finds in the draft. We needed the Payne, Noriega and other picks to work out. Notice the teams still alive in the playoffs Winslow guarded Corey Joseph down the stretch, Norman Powell hit big shots. Drafting matters. Secondly the Tiago Splitter move did not work. Not just because of the injury but the fact the new NBA is about versatile bigs who can hit the outside jumper or hard dive to the offensive boards. We need a young leaper who can do that. When we drafted Noriega we passed over one of the Plumlees. Perfect for that. Secondly Kyle is 35 years old and when he plays over 25 minutes we get negative returns on him. We need a 6'6" - 6'9" versatile wings who can hit the three and guard multiple positions ( wow sounds like we had that in Demarre Carroll). People and slow management implies that we had to choose between him and Millsap but the real Spurs model would have been to deal with finances earlier. And we pay Splitter about 6 mill less wouldn't it have been nice to have Demarre and Thabo taking turns on Lebron with this lineup of Al- Paul- Demarre- Bazemore and Jeff with Kyle Thabo and Schroeder Musdala and Scott off the bench while nurturing Tavares. Kyle would have played against second teams and could light them up the Bazemore Demarre mix would help us end the threat of wings that go wild and that team would have switched much better. Finally any move this summer must keep core and develop someone off scrap heap that is not going to be a free agent.

[Jamaaliver]

...sometimes we forget to address the elephant in the room. The Spurs System has been maxed out due to both ability of personnel and the continued horrid follow up drafting.

...any move this summer must keep core and develop someone off scrap heap that is not going to be a free agent.

Well Said

[wallsfamily]

I haven't looked very in depth at this draft past the top 10 picks. Who are some of the SF's we could realistically get at 21?

I wouldn't mind getting a defensive specialist and helping him develop his offensive game over the years, a la Jimmy Butler.

Or ala Kawhi!!!

#15 last year could have netted us Kelly Oubre, Justin Anderson(!), or Rondae Hollis Jefferson.

We got THJ instead. Any chance he takes a HUUUGE step next season to become a permanent fixture in the starting 5?

Or did his poor post-season someone squash the optimisim/momentum he'd gained in march?

that is my point. Lebron actually struggled a little against Stanley Johnson and would have against Anderson for some minutes. The four year college veterans were great this year and Valentine might be there @ 21. nbadraft.net has Hawks picking a foreign guy from France. I think they should go with a trade of Teague to Nets for Thaddeus Young. Small ball four and because Milsap and Horford can shoot his lack of shooting wont hurt the team and he can guard Lebron. Then resign Bazemore as starting 2.

Lineup of Young, Milsap, Horford, Bazemore and Schroeder with Korver, Thabo, Scott and Muscala off the bench. Hardaway for Bazemore if we cant resign him. that starting team is good defensively with athleticism @ the 2-3. Korver becomes a 25 MPG assassin of the bench and Thabo a 20 MPG defensive stopper. Probably have to move Splitter or he is big off the bench for big teams. Young would improve team rebounding. Go for an athletic big in the draft who can dive on the pick and rolls and block shots.

[atlantabbq99]

I haven't looked very in depth at this draft past the top 10 picks. Who are some of the SF's we could realistically get at 21?

I wouldn't mind getting a defensive specialist and helping him develop his offensive game over the years, a la Jimmy Butler.

Jaylen Brown - 6'8, 230lbs, Freshmen. He wouldn't fall to 21 but the Hawks could trade either Teague or Dennis to get him, like how the Spurs traded Hill for Kawhi. Its premature to say Jaylen will turn into Kawhi, but i think Budz can easily coach him up to a rich man's DeMarre Carroll

Denzel Valentine - 6'7, 220lbs, Senior. He might fall to 21. Good NBA body, but not a freak athlete. Super high basketball IQ. He is an elite shooter with elite PG skills, he reminds me of a poor man's Brandon Roy, or SG/SF version of Draymond Green.

Timothe Luwawu - 6'7, 200lbs, France. He is projected to be a late 1st round early 2nd round pick. Long lanky defensive SF in the same mold as Nicolas Batum or Thabo. He is getting the same hype that Schroeder got as a rookie in that he has a good IQ, good defense and his shot at this stage of his development doesn't look broken like Rondo's shot.

Caris LeVert - 6'7, 205lbs, Senior. I'm not excited about this guy. Seems to have the same skill sets as Hardaway Jr, and Nik Stauskas

Taurean Prince - 6'7, 225lbs, Senior. Hustle, energy guy who already has an NBA body. Basically in the same mold as DeMarre Carroll coming out of college. His skill sets could thrive in the NBA as a role player, but also has a low ceiling. Their is a 1% chance he could turn into another Jimmy Butler, but their is a 99% chance at best he will turn into Jae Crowder



Not counting Simmons and Ingram, this is how i rank the Small Forwards in this year's draft with Brown being at the top. Their are 5-6 other Small Forwards in the draft, but those other prospects are not great shooters or defensive players. I don't see Budz ever drafting a Small Forward who is not a good shooter or good defensive player.