The case AGAINST keeping Millsap

Post #81 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:04 am

This ORL loss seals it for me.

Seeing us struggle against The Bucks and Magic. Seeing the offensive ineptitude all season. Seeing the 7 game losing streak...

It's past time to deal Millsap. There is literally no benefit in letting him walk away. Get some assets for him and start off the new era early. (Packaging Millsap, Korver, Thabo can get us something of value.)

Seriously. This should have happened months ago.

becausephilchow · Post #82 » by **becausephilchow** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:41 am

Jamaaliver wrote:This ORL loss seals it for me.

Seeing us struggle against The Bucks and Magic. Seeing the offensive ineptitude all season. Seeing the 7 game losing streak...

It's past time to deal Millsap. There is literally no benefit in letting him walk away. Get some assets for him and start off the new era early. (Packaging Millsap, Korver, Thabo can get us something of value.)

Seriously. This should have happened months ago.

Would you guys be interested in something like:

Ross, Poeltl, Wright, Sullinger, LAC/TOR 2017 (Lower of the 2)

for

Millsap & Thabo

You get 3 Young players, for Millsap & Thabo, who are both expiring anyways. Seems to me like it's a bit of an overpay, but, it gives the Raps exactly what we need.

Post #83 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:53 am

becausephilchow wrote:Would you guys be interested in something like:

Ross, Poeltl, Wright, Sullinger, LAC/TOR 2017 (Lower of the 2)

for

Millsap & Thabo

You get 3 Young players, for Millsap & Thabo, who are both expiring anyways. Seems to me like it's a bit of an overpay, but, it gives the Raps exactly what we need.

I've seen a similar deal here on the forum. My response is simply...meh. Maybe.

I suspect Hawks, if they ever get the balls to do it, would auction Millsap off to the highest bidder.

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becausephilchow · Post #84 » by **becausephilchow** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:53 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
becausephilchow wrote:Would you guys be interested in something like:

Ross, Poeltl, Wright, Sullinger, LAC/TOR 2017 (Lower of the 2)

for

Millsap & Thabo

You get 3 Young players, for Millsap & Thabo, who are both expiring anyways. Seems to me like it's a bit of an overpay, but, it gives the Raps exactly what we need.

I've seen a similar deal here on the forum. My response is simply...meh. Maybe.

I suspect Hawks, if they ever get the balls to do it, would auction Millsap off to the highest bidder.

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Whom else do you think would be interested in trading for a 32-Yr Old Millsap? Curious to see what other competitors the Raps have in regards to a trade for him, and how our package stacks up against theirs.

Post #85 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:57 am

becausephilchow wrote:Whom else do you think would be interested in trading for a 32-Yr Old Millsap? Curious to see what other competitors the Raps have in regards to a trade for him, and how our package stacks up against theirs.

Ummm...

Read on Twitter

I think there will be a market for him.

Off the top of my head: OKC, Houston, Indiana, Sacramento, Utah, Milwaukee, Detroit, Portland could each use a veteran, All Star PF to aid in potential playoff runs.

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Wraps_fan · Post #86 » by **Wraps_fan** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:28 pm

becausephilchow wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:This ORL loss seals it for me.

Seeing us struggle against The Bucks and Magic. Seeing the offensive ineptitude all season. Seeing the 7 game losing streak...

It's past time to deal Millsap. There is literally no benefit in letting him walk away. Get some assets for him and start off the new era early. (Packaging Millsap, Korver, Thabo can get us something of value.)

Seriously. This should have happened months ago.

Would you guys be interested in something like:

Ross, Poeltl, Wright, Sullinger, LAC/TOR 2017 (Lower of the 2)

for

Millsap & Thabo

You get 3 Young players, for Millsap & Thabo, who are both expiring anyways. Seems to me like it's a bit of an overpay, but, it gives the Raps exactly what we need.

I think Atlanta would be really dumb to not do that deal if that's what Toronto offered.

Ross gives them a perfect fit at SG/SF. With the way he's playing this year he could definitely be a starting player on a lot of teams.

Wright/Poeltl aren't amazing prospects, but they are both steady and project to be good backups. With the right development Poeltl could be a starting caliber C, but he's a few years away.

Post #87 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:38 pm

Wraps_fan wrote:I think Atlanta would be really dumb to not do that deal if that's what Toronto offered.

Ross gives them a perfect fit at SG/SF. With the way he's playing this year he could definitely be a starting player on a lot of teams.

Wright/Poeltl aren't amazing prospects, but they are both steady and project to be good backups. With the right development Poeltl could be a starting caliber C, but he's a few years away.

It's something to consider. No doubt.

It just depends on what other long term pieces we get offered in trade.

NOTE: I consider it 'dumb' we didn't trade Millsap earlier this summer when multiple teams were clamoring over him. There are rumblings we might be looking for a new GM next summer, so...

Wraps_fan · Post #88 » by **Wraps_fan** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:02 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Wraps_fan wrote:I think Atlanta would be really dumb to not do that deal if that's what Toronto offered.

Ross gives them a perfect fit at SG/SF. With the way he's playing this year he could definitely be a starting player on a lot of teams.

Wright/Poeltl aren't amazing prospects, but they are both steady and project to be good backups. With the right development Poeltl could be a starting caliber C, but he's a few years away.

It's something to consider. No doubt.

It just depends on what other long term pieces we get offered in trade.

NOTE: I consider it 'dumb' we didn't trade Millsap earlier this summer when multiple teams were clamoring over him. There are rumblings we might be looking for a new GM next summer, so...

I just think due to his age and the fact he's basically a 4-5 month rental right now (he'd be like a 2-3 month rental if traded at the deadline) that would be the best offer the Hawks would get. Maybe a team gets really desperate and gives up a lottery pick or something, but I doubt it.

Toronto is one of the only teams in the NBA that can actually say they're 1 good player away from challenging Cleveland. I think this is going to be a seller's market, by the time January rolls around teams will know they aren't 1 player away from beating Cleveland, San Antonio, or Golden State so why give up young players/picks?

Ross's team friendly contract and obvious fit with Atlanta would probably make him one of the most appealing trade targets if they were to give up Millsap.

We'll see, but barring a collapse I don't see Atlanta trading Millsap.

Post #89 » by **Jamaaliver** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:15 pm

Wraps_fan wrote:I just think due to his age and the fact he's basically a 4-5 month rental right now (he'd be like a 2-3 month rental if traded at the deadline) that would be the best offer the Hawks would get. Maybe a team gets really desperate and gives up a lottery pick or something, but I doubt it.

Toronto is one of the only teams in the NBA that can actually say they're 1 good player away from challenging Cleveland. I think this is going to be a seller's market, by the time January rolls around teams will know they aren't 1 player away from beating Cleveland, San Antonio, or Golden State so why give up young players/picks?

We'll see, but barring a collapse I don't see Atlanta trading Millsap.

Everything above makes sense.

My hope is a fringe playoff team with a GM on the hot seat will overpay (in draft picks or young prospects!!!) to acquire Millsap in a desperate bid to keep their job. Think ORL, Sacramento, WAS.

But yeah, TOR is a solid 2nd tier team and the addition of Millsap would make them more competitive in a 7 game series with the elite 3 teams in the league (CLE, SAS. GSW).

simon24 · Post #90 » by **simon24** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:19 am

Jamaaliver wrote:This ORL loss seals it for me.

Seeing us struggle against The Bucks and Magic. Seeing the offensive ineptitude all season. Seeing the 7 game losing streak...

It's past time to deal Millsap. There is literally no benefit in letting him walk away. Get some assets for him and start off the new era early. (Packaging Millsap, Korver, Thabo can get us something of value.)

Seriously. This should have happened months ago.

Trade Millsap and Dwight. Nobody wants Baze. Might as well keep Thabo and Korver, nobody is going to give up a 1st for them.

Millsap - TOR, BOS
Dwight - POR, BOS

simon24 · Post #91 » by **simon24** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:27 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
Wraps_fan wrote:I just think due to his age and the fact he's basically a 4-5 month rental right now (he'd be like a 2-3 month rental if traded at the deadline) that would be the best offer the Hawks would get. Maybe a team gets really desperate and gives up a lottery pick or something, but I doubt it.

Toronto is one of the only teams in the NBA that can actually say they're 1 good player away from challenging Cleveland. I think this is going to be a seller's market, by the time January rolls around teams will know they aren't 1 player away from beating Cleveland, San Antonio, or Golden State so why give up young players/picks?

We'll see, but barring a collapse I don't see Atlanta trading Millsap.

Everything above makes sense.

My hope is a fringe playoff team with a GM on the hot seat will overpay (in draft picks or young prospects!!!) to acquire Millsap in a desperate bid to keep their job. Think ORL, Sacramento, WAS.

But yeah, TOR is a solid 2nd tier team and the addition of Millsap would make them more competitive in a 7 game series with the elite 3 teams in the league (CLE, SAS. GSW).

ORL got Serge who they gave up a lot for. Vlade is not going to lose his job. Same with Ernie in WAS.

It would have to be a team that doesn't have a shot of getting a visit from Millsap like MEM, DEN, PHX or a team that'll try to low ball the Hawks like Boston. Millsap in BOS would be a ECF team instead of 2nd round team.

dalton749 · Post #92 » by **dalton749** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:08 am

simon24 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
Wraps_fan wrote:I just think due to his age and the fact he's basically a 4-5 month rental right now (he'd be like a 2-3 month rental if traded at the deadline) that would be the best offer the Hawks would get. Maybe a team gets really desperate and gives up a lottery pick or something, but I doubt it.

Toronto is one of the only teams in the NBA that can actually say they're 1 good player away from challenging Cleveland. I think this is going to be a seller's market, by the time January rolls around teams will know they aren't 1 player away from beating Cleveland, San Antonio, or Golden State so why give up young players/picks?

We'll see, but barring a collapse I don't see Atlanta trading Millsap.

Everything above makes sense.

My hope is a fringe playoff team with a GM on the hot seat will overpay (in draft picks or young prospects!!!) to acquire Millsap in a desperate bid to keep their job. Think ORL, Sacramento, WAS.

But yeah, TOR is a solid 2nd tier team and the addition of Millsap would make them more competitive in a 7 game series with the elite 3 teams in the league (CLE, SAS. GSW).

ORL got Serge who they gave up a lot for. Vlade is not going to lose his job. Same with Ernie in WAS.

It would have to be a team that doesn't have a shot of getting a visit from Millsap like MEM, DEN, PHX or a team that'll try to low ball the Hawks like Boston. Millsap in BOS would be a ECF team instead of 2nd round team.

I don't think Boston is beating Toronto with milsap, and by the time they got him there is probably a good chance they end up playing Cleveland in the second round.

D21 · Post #93 » by **D21** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:58 am

So we are seriously thinking about trading Millsap, and even Dwight, for this loosing streak ?

I really don't like what the management did in July, leading to this situation, but do you realize that even with this loosing streak, we are only 1.5 game behind the 3rd spot ?

I'd like to know which team in the past, being 1.5 game behind the 3rd best team in the conference, traded his best player, and thought about trading his new center.

Post #94 » by **Jamaaliver** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:07 am

D21 wrote:So we are seriously thinking about trading Millsap, and even Dwight, for this loosing streak ?

I really don't like what the management did in July, leading to this situation, but do you realize that even with this loosing streak, we are only 1.5 game behind the 3rd spot ?

I'd like to know which team in the past, being 1.5 game behind the 3rd best team in the conference, traded his best player, and thought about trading his new center.

I'd trade him without hesitation. And it's about more than the losing streak. Outside of that marvelous 33-2 stretch (which has proven to be an outlier - unlikely to be duplicated), his tenure here has been fairly middle of the road.

He's been great from day one...but he's proven numerous times that he can't carry a team to contention single handedly. Re-signing him next summer seems unlikely. And even if he comes back...is maxing out 33 year old Paul Milsap getting us any closer to the Finals?

Letting Millsap walk away in the offseason without getting anything in return doesn't benefit this franchise long term.

D21 · Post #95 » by **D21** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:15 am

Jamaaliver wrote:I'd trade him without hesitation. And it's about more than the losing streak. Outside of that marvelous 33-2 stretch (which has proven to be an outlier - unlikely to be duplicated), his tenure here has been fairly middle of the road.

He's been great from day one...but he's proven numerous times that he can't carry a team to contention single handedly. Re-signing him next summer seems unlikely. And even if he comes back...is maxing out 33 year old Paul Milsap getting us any closer to the Finals?

Letting Millsap walk away in the offseason without getting anything in return doesn't benefit this franchise long term.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I wouldn't trade him.
I'm just trying to bring it back to reality, because everybody will come and make low offer like if ATL season was over, and that's not the case at all. Once again, we are only 1.5 games behind the 3rd place, being for the first time able to compete with both CLE and TOR while having made more changes than them, so needing more time to reach the potential.

Reality is that Millsap is a great player, and even if is not on expiring contract, ATL should receive more than what I saw in the previous posts. We are talking about the player with the best defensive Win share last season.

Post #96 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:28 am

D21 wrote:Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I wouldn't trade him.
I'm just trying to bring it back to reality, because everybody will come and make low offer like if ATL season was over, and that's not the case at all. Once again, we are only 1.5 games behind the 3rd place, being for the first time able to compete with both CLE and TOR while having made more changes than them, so needing more time to reach the potential.

Reality is that Millsap is a great player, and even if is not on expiring contract, ATL should receive more than what I saw in the previous posts. We are talking about the player with the best defensive Win share last season.

D21, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you.

And these are all very valid points.

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Post #97 » by **Diop** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:00 am

MKG and Marv for Millsap and thabo.

MKG is the potential for the future, Marv is a solid fill in Pf on a decent contract whose recovered from injury to get his shot back.

We upgrade Pf at the cost of wings thanks to Batum being able to carry the lions share

Post #98 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:14 pm

Diop wrote:MKG and Marv for Millsap and thabo.

MKG is the potential for the future, Marv is a solid fill in Pf on a decent contract whose recovered from injury to get his shot back.

We upgrade Pf at the cost of wings thanks to Batum being able to carry the lions share

I'm REALLY high on MKG, so this is a solid 'maybe' probably from me.

Marvin would not only benefit from playing in Bud's system, but could thrive next to Dwight.

Most importantly: Both are under manageable contracts long-term, making them tradable moving forward.

red96 · Post #99 » by **red96** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:22 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Diop wrote:MKG and Marv for Millsap and thabo.

MKG is the potential for the future, Marv is a solid fill in Pf on a decent contract whose recovered from injury to get his shot back.

We upgrade Pf at the cost of wings thanks to Batum being able to carry the lions share

I'm REALLY high on MKG, so this is a solid 'maybe' probably from me.

Marvin would not only benefit from playing in Bud's system, but could thrive next to Dwight.

Most importantly: Both are under manageable contracts long-term, making them tradable moving forward.

If a team were to trade for Milsap this season, what type of bird rights would his new team have this off-season?

Post #100 » by **Jamaaliver** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:35 pm

red96 wrote:If a team were to trade for Milsap this season, what type of bird rights would his new team have this off-season?

From one of our resident Cap Experts:

MaceCase wrote:Contracts under 4 years can't be extended under the current CBA, I have no idea of the case under the new one being negotiated but I'd imagine it would be moot as Millsap would already be a free agent when it takes effect.

A current advantage a team could gain through a trade are his full-Bird rights as he's played over 3 seasons in Atlanta and that transfers.

Is it time to move Millsap?